Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

Please welcome Tracey as the discussion leader for the discussion of this animal classic, Bambi by Felix Salten.

Hi Everyone! I am so excited to read this for the first time and discussing the book with everyone.

Thank you Tracey for leading the discussions :)

Reading Bambi in another group as well in April. Have to admit that ever since knowing that Felix Salten is also the author of that child pornography horror The Memoirs of Josephine Mutzenbacher, I feel a bit weird about him as author of Bambi.

We all have different aspects to our personalities, Manybooks. I am hoping that Bambi was an indicator of the author's true personality.

Felicia, I hope you enjoy it.

Rosemarie wrote: "We all have different aspects to our personalities, Manybooks. I am hoping that Bambi was an indicator of the author's true personality."

I am hoping for that.

Bambi is one of my all time favorite books, looking forward to the discussion and reading it once again.

Thank you Tracey for hosting the discussion!

I read it a lot as it was a part of my childhood library. I had coloured books with hardcovers, like Pinocchio, Bambi, Robin Hood, Hans Brinker, Black Beauty, Treasure Island, etc. and read and re-read them many times.

Hello everybody, thank you for joining us in reading this book.

I admit that the Disney Bambi is one of my favorite Disney movies. However, the book is not at all the Disneyfied version. I have read the book but it was many years ago.

Felix Salten is an author whose works have been reprinted in recent times. I am grateful to Manybooks for raising the point that not all Salten's works are ones we would view with merit. So how do we feel about reading better books such as Bambi? I came across a similar dilemma in reading Growth of the Soil by Knut Hamsun. The book is excellent and I highly recommend it. But Hamsun himself was a self-avowed Nazi and a complex man. I felt that I would judge the book, not the author. We are all of us complex beings which means we may produce both good and bad works in our lives. I hope I will be judged by the good I tried to do rather than the bad or stupid I did in the midst of my limiting human condition, for reasons maybe only God would know.

Salten was a Jew who was forced to flee his homeland of Austria in 1939. He wrote several 'animal stories' which were realistic despite being amorphized. I hope the book will raise questions and discussion.

Tracey the Bookworm wrote: "Hello everybody, thank you for joining us in reading this book.

I admit that the Disney Bambi is one of my favorite Disney movies. However, the book is not at all the Disneyfied version. I have r..."

I am hoping I can get over my weird feelings towards Salten. But I am finding it a bit strange how in the German original, after Bambi is born, the author uses words like blöd and duselig (both of which tend to mean stupid or simplistic) to describe Bambi. I hope that changes.

Yes, I have had a similar experience with Knut Hamsun, as well as with Waldemar Bonsels. I know that his The Adventures of Maya the Bee (Die Biene Maja und ihre Abenteuer) is supposed to be a classic, but the militarism and speciesism included and that Bonsels was both anti Semitic and a strong supporter of National Socialism has always bothered me to no end.

Books are great. You can find out what other people are thinking. I'm Jewish (I'd prefer not to be called 'a Jew', thanks) and have read everything from Mein Kampf to the Koran and the King James Bible. I don't want second hand stories, I want to know what was written myself. The amount of books I've read with Christian propaganda is immense, but I make my way through them and am reconciled to the fact that they knew no better.

another point of view about Salten... I know it is called a work of fiction, but maybe he was trying to bring light to the world of prostitution. I have never read that book, but from what I have heard about it, it sounds almost like her met a woman and wrote her story. I can't read the book because of triggers in it but when it comes to classics I have to remind myself that it was a different time and try to judge it on a book by book basis instead of the authors views.

That is true, Felicia. What was acceptable in past times is different from today. We do need to read a book in context. And if it is too disturbing for us, we don't need to keep reading it.
And even in today's society, there are many different topics that some people find offensive and others are completely okay with.

I read the first 50-ish pages last night and feel like not a whole lot happened. For some reason, it doesn't really bother me. I am going to try to explain why it may not make sense so bear with me. This book feels like I am reading a lazy summer day. The different forest animals that come in, remind me of laying on the huge fallen oak by the pond in my grandparent's woods and watching animals go about their day. I know that conflict is going to happen, but I could seriously read these first 50 pages over and over and imagine the animals it the meadow, forest and thicket.

The German subtitle is Ein Waldleben- A Life in the Woods, so your comment makes a lot of sense, Felicia.
I wouldn't mind living surrounded by nature right now.

I can't get to it right now, but not only did I read it as a child, my sister had the record album of it. I am horrified to learn that the author also wrote child porn and this taints this book for me.

I tend to agree with Felicia. If i was to write an honest portrayal of my own life, there are those who would look at the retelling of my childhood and label it 'kiddie porn' which of course it would not be. I would have to read the book myself before labelling it. I have heard, however, that his book was matter-of-fact and not erotic in any way. Perhaps I shall read it myself one day and form my own opinion.

Actually, having looked into this, I discovered that there is no proof to show who the actual author of the book in question is. That Salten was the author is just conjecture, and no one should be judged so harshly on that basis.

Although no author claimed responsibility for the work, it was originally attributed to either Felix Salten or Arthur Schnitzler by the librarians at the University of Vienna. Today, critics, scholars, academics and the Austrian Government designate Salten as the sole author.

But that is not concrete proof, merely hearsay.

While I agree with Felicia's point about the beginning of the book being like a 'lazy summer day,' even in those opening scenes Bambi's mother is full of fear and caution, and is teaching him a deliberate wariness. By the time I finished the book I felt like its main thrust was to introduce the concepts of danger and death to children, and perhaps to help them explore what these mean. There's a surprising number of grisly deaths described.

Anyway, ifSalten can tackle such heavy subject matter in this kind of forum, maybe as a writer he was just drawn to graphic content. So in Bambi you have a children's book full of death. And in that other book you have a book which somehow pairs children and sex.

I hope this doesn't sound too weird. I've never even heard of that other book so I'm not trying to excuse it, if it is some form of child porn. This idea really comes from how surprised I was at how he kept killing off likable innocent characters in Bambi in rather bloody ways.

Wait, I am going to read it. Found a copy.

Jazzy wrote: "Actually, having looked into this, I discovered that there is no proof to show who the actual author of the book in question is. That Salten was the author is just conjecture, and no one should be ..."

This is also what I found when doing some research myself.

The book in question on Goodreads, the description of the book reads more like a hit piece than an actual description of the book.

Although I do like the concept of separating the artist from the artwork. I will agree that is much simpler to do this with work that is collaborative than a single artist.
I also like the concept that once the art is in the public sphere that it no longer belongs to the artist and their interpretation doesn’t matter, the public or reader in this case choose what it means.

I haven’t read the book in question nor will I ever but I also discovered that it is a German classic probably similar to how
in America Lolita (written in 1955) is considered a classic, another work I will chose not to read but I do not believe in censorship. Just using it as a comparison.

So, back to Bambi, it’s also a favorite novel of mine. I love the writing as well as the pace. I also own Florian: The Emperor's Stallion and might get around to reading it this year depending on the state of the world.

In further Salten trivia, another novel, The Hound of Florence inspired Disney’s The Shaggy Dog.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix...

I remember reading Bambi as a child, especially one scene that was very emotional.
I didn't know about those other books, Carol, they look charming.

I began reading Bambi last night, it truly is a book for nature lovers. I thought I would share a couple of my favorite passages so far.

Through the thick foliage, the early sunlight filtered in a golden web. The whole forest resounded with myriad voices, was penetrated by them in a joyous agitation. The wood-thrush rejoiced incessantly, the doves cooed without stopping, the blackbirds whistled, finches warbled, the tit-mice chirped. Through the midst of these songs the jay flew, uttering its quarrelsome cry, the magpie mocked them, and the pheasants cackled loud and high. At times the shrill exulting of a woodpecker rose above all the other voices. The call of the falcon shrilled, light and piercing, over the tree-tops, and the hoarse crow chorus was heard continuously.

Then Bambi saw that there were many butterflies flying in the air above the meadow. They seemed to be in a hurry and yet moved slowly, fluttering up and down in a sort of game that delighted him. They really did look like gay flying flowers that would not stay on their stems but had unfastened themselves in order to dance a little.


It’s beautifully written.

And that right there is why I prefer classics. This is the writing I grew up with, and I had read Bambi quite a few times before I was even 8 years old. My dad had a large dictionary and when I didn't know a word i was to write it down, look it up, and learn it. So many books now are dumbed down, and seem written for the pre-school set.

I ended up reading it, but liked it better as a child. I only read it once, though. I think my sister's record album with a Disney version of it ruined it somewhat for me since I heard that multiple times before I could read.

I thought I would share my opinions and thoughts about Bambi why I think it's an important book and the themes that are presented.

“It is a realistic, though anthropomorphized, account of a deer from his birth to his final role as a wise and tough old denizen of the forest, struggling to survive against his chief enemy, man the hunter,” writes Encyclopedia Britannica.

First I think it is eloquently written quite poetic example

"Through the thick foliage, the early sunlight filtered in a golden web. The whole forest resounded with myriad voices, was penetrated by them in a joyous agitation. The wood-thrush rejoiced incessantly, the doves cooed without stopping, the blackbirds whistled, finches warbled, the tit-mice chirped. Through the midst of these songs the jay flew, uttering its quarrelsome cry, the magpie mocked them, and the pheasants cackled loud and high. At times the shrill exulting of a woodpecker rose above all the other voices. The call of the falcon shrilled, light and piercing, over the tree-tops, and the hoarse crow chorus was heard continuously."

The story is simple but not superficial or shallow.

The ecological theme about man's contempt for nature is very modern.

One of my favorite chapters in the book is when two leaves discuss death by the end of the conversation they both decide to focus on life rather than dwell on what happens after death.

I like that the animals can talk amongst themselves it can be used to teach children about community and the importance to find common ground with others.

I think there is another theme that may be portrayed a bit iffy about independence among children, I feel that is not just an important lesson for children but for the adults teaching or reading along with the child. The elder stag may come off a bit harsh but that's why it is important to discuss.

I like the theme to respect nature ( a deer Gobo is injured and a man takes pity on the animal and cares for him and he is returned to the forest only this time he isn't as scared or aware of his surroundings) I think this is an important lesson about good intentions do not always have good outcomes and lucky for us times have changed and there are many places and the right people to care for injured animals to be returned to their habitat safely.

I also like the realism that comes to everything and that nature is beautiful but can be dangerous to all.

"The oak is gone," he began plaintively, "my beautiful old oak, do you remember it? It was awful. He chopped it down!" Bambi hung his head sadly. His very soul felt sorry for the wonderful old tree. "As soon as it happened," the squirrel related, "everybody who lived in the tree fled and watched how He bit through the trunk with a gigantic flashing tooth. The tree groaned aloud when it was wounded. It kept on groaning and the tooth kept gnawing, it was dreadful to hear it. Then the poor beautiful tree fell out on the meadow. Everybody cried."

I like this quote because it teaches that we are all connected and that it is important to empathize and sympathize with others.

I will leave you with a song that ran through my head while reading Bambi. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpLnq...

Thank you for your thoughts, Shannon. And the quotes-they are just as valid today as when the book was written.

Shannon wrote: "One of my favorite chapters in the book is when two leaves discuss death by the end of the conversation they both decide to focus on life rather than dwell on what happens after death. ..."

Yes, this interlude stuck out to me too. I thought it was weird and disconsonant when I was reading it, but I like that kind of boldness. And besides the themes it illuminates, which you describe so well, Salten also used it as an effective "change of seasons" transition in the story. The leaves are chatting along and then when their done suddenly Bambi has aged.

You are very welcome and Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this novel Rosemarie, I couldn’t agree with both of you more.

So after at first needing to get used a bit to Felix Salten's general writing style (and also having to lose my annoyance that in the beginning of Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde, when Felix Salten is describing Bambi as a newly-born fawn, he makes use of the words blöd and duselig, he writes two descriptive adjectives that basically in German usually tend to signify major stupidity and are also often specifically used as insults in order to describe young Bambi as still being rather unresponsive and unsteady on his feet during his first hours of life), I did in fact and indeed end up for the most part rather enjoying Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde and in particular appreciating how Bambi in classic bildungsroman fashion develops and matures from a helpless fawn utterly dependent on others (actually mostly on his mother) into a strong and courageous stag not only able to adequately take care of himself but to also provide protection and succour to the other deer of the forest (experiencing both joy and tragedy, both heartbreak and triumph, living both the positives and the negatives of existence).

However, that having been said and while I have certainly found Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde an engaging and also often enlightening reading experience, I also cannot say that this novel, that Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde has been an unmitigated and total reading pleasure for me. For personally and emotionally, I do tend to think that the rather constant threat to Bambi and to the forest posed by man (as mostly a hunter) while perhaps realistic to a point also feels within the storyline of Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde and Felix Salten's narrative as sometimes being more than a trifle exaggerated and extreme (and as such also often as though Felix Salten is literally wallowing joyfully in describing one hunter-based horror and terror after another, that he is really overdoing things and almost wanting to frighten his readers and to make man just into one huge threat to and for nature, and just man as a HE at that, as a male entity, as though those of us who are of the female gender somehow never hunt and therefore cannot be an equal danger to nature, to the forest and to its denizens).

Combined with the fact that while I do generally have no issues with the animals in Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde talking and conversing amongst themselves, I certainly would much prefer it if Felix Salten only had Bambi and the rest of the forest deer chatting amongst themselves instead of having Bambi also converse with birds, insects etc. (and yes, I really do not like that scene in Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde where two leaves are having a conversation), while I am very glad to have finally read Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde (in its original German text and unabridged), I also cannot and will not consider it a personal favourite (as to and for me, albeit that Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde is a good story and an engaging story, it is also a tale that I do wish were a bit less focused on hunting and with a narration that just had one animal species and not multiple ones chatting and conversing with one another).

I haven't had a chance to read the German version, but I did read the English version as a child and then a couple of years ago.
I enjoyed it as an adult, but didn't love it.
When I read it as a ten year old my emotions came into play more but I didn't pay much attention to the details.

I find that I have issues when I read about hunters and hunting, so I don't know if Salten exaggerated the danger or not.

Rosemarie wrote: "I haven't had a chance to read the German version, but I did read the English version as a child and then a couple of years ago.
I enjoyed it as an adult, but didn't love it.
When I read it as a te..."

I do find Salten a bit too exaggeratedly negative about hunting in Bambi, just like in Where the Red Fern Grows Wilson Rawls is much too exaggeratedly positive about hunting.

I have only read the first chapter of the Wilson book and noticed that right away. That was enough for me.

Rosemarie wrote: "I have only read the first chapter of the Wilson book and noticed that right away. That was enough for me."

We had to read the novel for school and we also watched the movie in class. Yes, painful reading experience although I do think that Rawls wrote a very good slice of life tale.

Manybooks wrote: "when Felix Salten is describing Bambi as a newly-born fawn, he makes use of the words blöd and duselig, he writes two descriptive adjectives that basically in German usually tend to signify major stupidity and are also often specifically used as insults"

Thanks for this. I genuinely appreciate this detail that I never would have understood since I can only read this in translation.


and Felix Salten's narrative as sometimes being more than a trifle exaggerated and extreme (and as such also often as though Felix Salten is literally wallowing joyfully in describing one hunter-based horror and terror after another, that he is really overdoing things and almost wanting to frighten his readers

I think it is possible that he is indeed intentionally trying to frighten the children who read this book. I think it is possible he meant this book to be the beginning of a conversation between parents and children about death. It seems like a unusual motivation, but maybe he meant it for his own children. When I told my wife I was reading Bambi what she remembered from reading the book more than 40 years ago as a child was one of the deaths. That's quite a strong impression.

My strongest memory of the book is one of the deaths as well. I remember crying a lot after the one scene.

John_Dishwasher wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "when Felix Salten is describing Bambi as a newly-born fawn, he makes use of the words blöd and duselig, he writes two descriptive adjectives that basically in German usually tend ..."

I do think that in Bambi there is a bit too much of an emphasis on death at times and that some of it even feels a bit gratuitous, as if Felix Salten really wants to focus too much on this.

Bambi was in fact banned in Nazi Germany (and many copies of the book were burned) and the reasons the "authorities" gave was that the novel somehow presented a political allegory about Judaism in Europe (which I for one think is totally ridiculous). For Bambi was first and foremost banned in the Third Reich because Felix Salten was Jewish, but since Bambi had also been a very popular and eagerly read children's literature book since its 1923 publication, the Nazis obviously needed and wanted some official excuse and thus made these political allegory claims.

Any excuse to ban a popular book-almost.

Rosemarie wrote: "Any excuse to ban a popular book-almost."

Well, the Nazis certainly tried. With Heinrich Heine, because many of his poems (songs) were so universally popular, they realised they could not just ban a poem like Die Lorelei, so they just erased Heine’s name and claimed the poem was by an unknown author (of course, most people likely knew that Heinrich Heine was the author but you could no longer mention that).

Manybooks wrote: "I do find Salten a bit too exaggeratedly negative about hunting in Bambi, just like in Where the Red Fern Grows Wilson Rawls is much too exaggeratedly positive about hunting."

I agree.

Felicia wrote: "another point of view about Salten... I know it is called a work of fiction, but maybe he was trying to bring light to the world of prostitution. I have never read that book, but from what I have h..."

Thank you for your comment. This is something I didn't know.

Shannon wrote: "I thought I would share my opinions and thoughts about Bambi why I think it's an important book and the themes that are presented.

“It is a realistic, though anthropomorphized, account of a deer ..."

Thank you for your comments. They made reading the book more enjoyable.

Manybooks wrote: "So after at first needing to get used a bit to Felix Salten's general writing style (and also having to lose my annoyance that in the beginning of Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus dem Walde, when F..."

Thank you for your thoughts. I can't read passages describing brutality, either to man or animals. I know enough about this without being traumatized all over again. I skip those parts.

Tracey the Bookworm wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "So after at first needing to get used a bit to Felix Salten's general writing style (and also having to lose my annoyance that in the beginning of Bambi: Eine Lebensgeschichte aus..."

I did not skip anything this time as it was my first time reading the unabridged original German text and I am also kind of a completist, but yes, if I ever were to want to or need to reread Bambi, I will also now be skipping the scenes of brutality and terror.

This was a great thread, folks. Loved this discussion.

Thank you, John.
And thank you for everyone who participated in the discussion.

It's good to have you back, Tracey. I'm glad you're feeling better.
Thanks for being the discussion leader.

What I find both interesting and wonderful with regard to anthropomorphic books like Bambi and Black Beauty is that while the animals all talk, they also ALWAYS act like animals and not like human beings (for I really cannot stand novels where animal characters wear human costumes and behave like humans, which is why, after three futile attempts I have finally decided to permanently abandon and place on my "could not finish" shelf The Wind in the Willows).