Children's Books discussion

Come join us to discuss any or all of these laudable books from 1968:

Jennifer, Hecate, MacBeth, William McKinley, and Me by Elizabeth by E.L. Konigsburg
(Medal and Honor in the same year by that author!)

The Black Pearl by Scott O'Dell

The Fearsome Inn by Isaac Bashevis Singer

The Egypt Game by Zilpha Keatley Snyder

I'll be trying to read these all, working into February if need be. (I'm not interested in Feb's book, tbh, sorry).

edit - all four are available on openlibrary.org to borrow for free; none are real long

The Fearsome Inn is very short... and if you skip the part after what would traditionally be the 'happily ever after' it's significantly shorter. The terrific illustrations by Nonny Hogrogian (which remind me just a bit of those of Evaline Ness and of Patricia Polacco) make it even shorter, and it's on OpenLibrary.org... so there's no excuse for any of you to skip it!

Well, except maybe for the fact that it's not all that interesting. Imo. What am I missing? And why is there so much epilogue?

Cheryl wrote: "The Fearsome Inn is very short... and if you skip the part after what would traditionally be the 'happily ever after' it's significantly shorter. The terrific illustrations by [auth..."

Thank you for letting me know this is on Open Library.

Jennifer, Hecate, Macbeth, William Mckinley, and Me, Elizabeth is on openlibrary, too.

I like the details. For example E. has to write "I will not be tardy" 100 times, so to amuse herself she numbers the lines in Roman numerals and practices different kinds of handwriting with each sentence.

There's a lot of subtlety here... a lot of showing not telling, which means it would be great for discussion in a reading group. The twist ending is kinda, erm, interesting... I really wonder if the publisher put Konigsburg up to that. Probably not, on second thought, because she'd already earned that Newbery Medal the year before.

Speaking of Newberys, this is the second Honor book of the year that features witchcraft. Hmm....

The Black Pearl and The Egypt Game are on openlibrary, too, but I'll read them later.

Starting The Egypt Game now, and loving the details immediately. The first time we meet some of the characters, we learn that the little boy, Marshall, has a large stuffed *octopus* of all things, named, naturally, "Security."

This is a book I remember enjoying before. Not sure when... more likely when my older boys were the right age to read it, and not from my childhood. What I don't remember is anything that made it Newbery worthy....

So, Snyder's book isn't completely engaging; I kept taking little breaks from it. And I'm not sure it coheres; it's seems like there are two themes, one of what it means to use one's imagination so deeply, and another about knowing, not judging, other people....

It ends with a scene much like the climactic one in Konigsberg's, that we read last month, with older people explaining themselves to the children, and wrapping up the mysteries in the course of their tales. Hm....

The Black Pearl is a quick, engaging read. I did not care for the pictures at all, however, and I'm not sure that it's Newbery worthy.

It is a view of another culture, actually two cultures, which has been a favorite topic among Newbery committee members, and it has the theme of 'what it means to be a man.' But it's also got a conflict between "Indian superstitions" and Catholic mysticism, neither of which make any sense to me because O'Dell didn't write well enough for me to be able to Suspend Disbelief.

Maybe it's more of boys' book, so-called, too.

And apparently (reading others' reviews) it's based on a legend called El Mechudo. As is Steinbeck's novella The Pearl.

Btw, I'd classify this more for teens than MG, and would add it to suggested reading lists only (maybe) for ages 13 up because it's just too nuanced, subtle, for kids, and too dependent on the kinds of life experience only older children can imagine having. Imo.

The Fearsome Inn
I did like this story of the six young people working together to evict the evil couple from the inn. And the epilogue about who wanted to pair up with whom, and who finally ended up with whom was a tad lengthy, but I found it interesting. I was not as entranced with the illustrations, but they were adequate.

I've been thinking about it a bit more, and following along a discussion about Don Quixote, and I'm realizing that Singer may have been extending this little tale with extra humor and satire, as Cervantes extended his satire with all sorts of extra themes etc. It's a {L}iterary thing....

Cheryl wrote: "The Black Pearl is a quick, engaging read. I did not care for the pictures at all, however, and I'm not sure that it's Newbery worthy.

It is a view of another culture, actually two ..."

I've read it several times, most recently about 15 years ago. I have fond memories of it. It might be my favorite O'Dell book. I don't recall feeling that it was about conflict between Indian and Catholic beliefs. I remember the idea being that the reasons you have for doing something are just as important as the thing you're doing. I also love all the pearl diving scenes and the chase with the ray.

I wish I hadn't returned Fearsome Inn to the library. Nothing about the epilogue stuck out to me. I recall it being about a page long. I liked it because I was curious about what happened next with the characters.

Because I am a fan of The Black Pearl and have taught it in class, I've seen a lot of book covers for it. It seems like the publishers went out of their way to avoid putting a person of color on the cover of their book.
This kid looks English.
Just so much boat.
Spoilers?
OK, this one's good.

Yes, well, wasn't Ramon proudly Spanish, and thought of the (presumably darker skinned) Indians as inferior? I agree, though, of those four covers, the last is best.

Themes, well, I can definitely see your suggestion in there. Maybe what I'm thinking about is partly "the reasons you have for doing something " is also dependent on deep culture, and here we have two different cultures....

I read the fearsome in last night. Not a bad picture book, but sometimes the text was to long for the averige picture book.

I agree, it really is a story of an awkward length. Not a picture-book, actually, but far too short to be called an illustrated novel. I'm still not sure what age children would be most interested in it, and capable of understanding it...?

I agree totally and I almost was wondering if it was wrote for jewish kids in a certain age. Because there was sure a lot of talk about the cabala.

I think you're right, that he especially wanted Jewish children to have stories of their own. Because of course back then most stories that were well-known were from Andersen, Grimm or Perrault.

Certainly he wanted other children to be exposed to Jewish culture, too. And that educational value is probably what caught the attention of the Newbery committee, don't you think?

The Egypt Game
Unlike Cheryl, I was thoroughly engaged by this book. I first read it several decades ago, so I did not remember many details. So I re-read it for this discussion. I thought that it was just as good as I remembered it. I was engaged by the plot and the characters, especially the mostly self-possessed Mashall and the flamboyant, bossy April. The mystery aspect seemed almost an afterthought, and the solution quickly wrapped up. The children's immersion into their imaginary Egypt was the most interesting part of the novel. I don't really look for "themes" when I read fiction; Cheryl's observation: "it seems like there are two themes, one of what it means to use one's imagination so deeply, and another about knowing, not judging, other people...." seem to fit the bill well. Anyway, in my opinion, this book did deserve its Newbery Honor designation.

That's fair!

But I do think the Newbery committees look for themes....

I have waited all month to get a copy of the Konigsburg book, but it still has not become available. Yesterday, I downloaded the e-audio version and started listening. I'll report back when I have finished.

I read Egypt Game over 20 years ago because we had a stack of them in the classroom book cabinet. I read a lot of books for that reason. For example, this year I gave students the choice between The Lightning Thief and Public School Superhero. A parent asked me why, and I told her "Because we have a stack of them."

Anyway, I read this one and thought it was okay, so I taught it to a group of students. Going through it with them, I realized that basically nothing happens for most of the book. So, not a winner in my opinion.

:smiles:

Jennifer, Hecate, Macbeth, William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth
I finished listening a few days ago, but forgot to post. I gave it 4 stars, because I just could not be sympathetic to Elizabeth. (view spoiler)[I cannot imagine being as weak a follower as was Elizabeth to Jennifer. I would never have agreed to eating the odd foods that Jennifer insisted on; or I would have agreed to Jennifer, and then simply not carried out the demand. I absolutely hate raw onions, and would not have eaten them, period. So, I probably would have humored Jennifer when I was with her, but when away from her, carried on eating or doing whatever I wanted to or thought best. But I was glad that Elizabeth and Jennifer's friendship finally ended up on a more equal foundation.(view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Oooh! Now I remember this book! Thank you Beverly for your spoilers. I do think a neighbor may have read it in school and recommend it to me, I vaguely remember a real life scenario much like the one in Beverly's spoiler.

But it's true that a lot of kids are followers... maybe they'll see themselves in Jennifer, Hecate, MacBeth, William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth.

Cheryl wrote: "But it's true that a lot of kids are followers... maybe they'll see themselves in Jennifer, Hecate, MacBeth, William McKinley, and Me, Elizabeth."

I actually was more of a follower, but not to the extent that Elizabeth was, with no regard for my own likes and dislikes.

Good for you! :)

Do any of you know of any good 'read-alikes' for any of these books? If a reader can't find a copy or wants something published this century or wants more, what else could they read?

The only one I can think of at the moment is The Headless Cupid by Zilpha Keatley Snyder, because we have another girl pretending to be a witch.

Oh, yes, I hadn't made that connection.
In fact, I'd recommend two of these together, looking at it from the theme of the power of the imagination towards developing a personal identity: Jennifer, Hecate... and The Egypt Game. both.

Some of the earlier Newberys like Old Ramon or Li Lun, Lad of Courage or Secret of the Andes, etc., might be good to recommend to those who like The Black Pearl. Non-white boys facing challenges, becoming men, anyway.

Cheryl wrote: "Non-white boys facing challenges, becoming men, anyway."

When you put it like that, Call It Courage comes to mind.

Maybe Lord of the Deep to some extent as well.

Lord of the Deep is probably pretty good... I've liked at least one other by Graham Salisbury, He makes Hawai'i sound like a real place with ordinary people, not just a tourist mecca.