SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Came across T Kingfisher only this year (how did I not read her sooner?) Especially love Paladin's Grace, followed closely by the two Clocktaur War books and Swordheart. Also Minor Mage in a slightly different way. I like all her books, including the darker ones and the get under your skin shorts and novellas.
What I am looking for is recommendations of books a bit like the four I've especially highlighted. It is the way the books are written that I particularly love, the keen observation of people and the humour - for example in Paladin's Grace how Grace interacts through the world through scent, noticing people's perfumes and how the Paladins see the world through their speciality of fighting - the scene where they are guarding Bishop Beartongue at the reception for the Prince and spend their time discussing how to weaponise the ice sculpture and courtier's hats is just brilliant. So fantasy or SF written in that kind of way would be good. (Also particularly like Tanya Huff's The Silvered for similar reasons.)

I was going to suggest the Penric novellas as the only thing that comes even close, but I see you've already read and loved them.

I will have to check out The Silvered!

Hmmm... for similar keen psychological understanding and/or romantic banter mixed with dry humor, you could try:

All Systems Red, Clean Sweep, We Are Legion (We Are Bob), The Strange Case of the Alchemist's Daughter, Minimum Wage Magic, Just One Damned Thing After Another, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, The City of Dreaming Books, or Soulless.

I haven't read all of the above yet, so I can't guarantee they'll be as good, but maybe you'll see something that you'll like. Or perhaps try Charles Dickens! He often has the same combination of humor, brilliant observations, wildly eccentric characters, a dash of romance and a spooky gothic atmosphere.

If you haven't read them you might like the Wayward Children series starting with Every Heart a Doorway. Skyward is scifi but it checks a lot of the same boxes for me. And Murderbot!!!

You're right, I forgot Skyward!

Delightful! <3

I also would've said Soulless, and all Carriger, but it's a different kind of fun than Kingfisher imho. I also saw that you've already read it, but not continued with Carriger, so maybe you didn't like it much?

Murderbot and Wayward Children don't have the romance element that all four of Carro's fave Kingfishers have, which is why I would never have thought to compare them! But one can't go wrong with Murderbot for humor!

The other one that popped into my mind, that gives me similar feels, is Howl's Moving Castle. Different style, but humor and fun and playing around with fairy tale tropes, which is Kingfisher's trademark, although not in the four books you listed, which are her more "original" works.

I've read quite a few of the Carriger - once. Got them from the public library. Might try a re-read. Just don't manage to put everything I read on Goodreads. I was trying to review everything and got a massive backlog so probably should switch to a quick rating on most books as I finish them.
Read Murderbot recently and quite liked it, but not quite enough to go and buy the sequels.
Adore We are Legion (We Are Bob) and have re-read Jodie Taylor several times.
Read Minimum Wage Magic just a couple of weeks ago as it happens and I loved a lot of the world building and the whole concept but it's one where I didn't immediately want to leap on the sequel, so it's in my re-read pile - I'll re-read it probably next year and buy the sequel if I like it then.
Thank you everyone for all the suggestions, I'll go look further at them.

What about Connie Willis? She juxtaposes very serious, sad/tragic situations (the Plague, WWII) with other absurd situations and humorous banter. I love her wit and fast paced writing. Her characters, especially those in supporting roles are always interesting.

Eva wrote: " Or perhaps try Charles Dickens! He often has the same combination of humor, brilliant observations, wildly eccentric characters, a dash of romance and a spooky gothic atmosphere."

I'm afraid I find Dickens prose heavy going and gave up on him years ago.

You might enjoy Frances Murray - mostly historical romance, but with the emphasis on the historical and a very sharp observer of people with a lovely turn of phrase. I like all her books but my top ones are The Burning Lamp - a tough and practical young lady becoming a Nightingale nurse and then travelling to the "wild West" to help found a hospital. Heroine's Sister - set in Venice during the Austrian occupation, the "heroine" is a temperamental opera singer who leaves her sister in the lurch Murray has also more recently put out books which are just eBooks for example .Whatever Happened to Mary Bold - builds on Anthony Trollopes Barchester one I've actually reviewed https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... and a Pride and Prejudice sequel Expectations which I've also managed to review. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
You might also like Gail Ann Gibbs They Called Me Dragon: A Narrative Account of My Adventures on the Planet Earth - also reviewed it.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Diane wrote: "What about Connie Willis? She juxtaposes very serious, sad/tragic situations (the Plague, WWII) with other absurd situations and humorous banter. I love her wit and fast paced writing. Her characte..."
Read two of Connie Willis. :D I like the one with the sheep a lot - very good description of researchers and the things that go wrong with research including the frightful assistant. Her mega-WW2 time travel one is excellent but too long - I had several "how many more mishaps" moments in the middle of it. Good thought, hadn't thought to look how many more she has.

Haha re: Blackout/All Clear. I’m listening to All Clear right now and things were so calamitous at about the 30% mark that I couldn’t believe it wasn’t about to end, but I think the gap between the beginning of the war and the end has to get narrower before the end can arrive. Yes, it does get a bit absurd, but that’s part of the fun.

I was impressed by the accuracy of the tone of the book in that I heard about the war from my grandmothers, my father and my mother (who experienced it from differented age viewpoints). I've also read books such as No Time For Romance - autobiography of Lucilla Andrews who was a nurse during WW2.

If you liked Bellwether by Willis, then maybe Crosstalk, which imho has a similar feel and is lighter and romancier? It's still got that trademark Willis pile of mishaps, but it's not a gazillion pages long.

Thanks. And amazingly it's in the public library so have requested it.

Anna wrote: "The other one that popped into my mind, that gives me similar feels, is Howl's Moving Castle. Different style, but humor and fun and playing around with fairy tale tropes, which is Kingfisher's trademark, although not in the four books you listed, which are her more "original" works.."

Just ordered it. I did like the playing around with fairy tales that Kingfisher did (especially the twists in The Raven and the Reindeer T Kingfisher - but there are only so many fairytale re-tellings that I want to read in a year.....and some are on the darker side (especially some of her shorts) and rather got under my skin. Have read some of Diana Wynne Jones and thought The Dark Lord of Derkholm was particularly good and that Year of the Griffin was OK but a bit more boarding school than University which is what I thought it was supposed to be. Have tried reading others of hers and some were OK, some too young - had better have another trawl to see if there any more to fancy as well as Howl. Incidentally I was re-reading In Arcadia a few weeks back and there is a passing reference to Howl in there - the characters are at an archaeological dig (sf variety) and the toilets hover so they don't have an impact on the underlying ground and one character calls them Howl's Floating Portapotty.

I really hope you like Howl! I just reread it for the umpteenth time, and it's still five stars! <3 I think it's one for all ages, definitely less MG than some of her other work. (Which I also enjoy, but is not relevant to this thread.)

The Voyages of Cinrak the Dapper gave me very similar feels that T. Kingfisher books do. The writing style is humorous, but in a different, more punny way. Worth looking into, especially since I just noticed one reviewer had compared it to Vernon's Digger.

Have added Cinrak the Dapper to my list, thanks.

Have just read Howl and enjoyed it a lot, but for me, for now it is 4 star just because at times the tone of the prose is a little young in style in a way. I might revise that on a future re-read.

Am now onCrosstalk and am enjoying it, but at times the annoying characters are a bit too annoying and it is a bit yakkity - there is an awful lot of talking going on.

Have also just read a Tanya Huff collection The Demon's Den and Other Tales of Valdemar set in a world of Mercedes Lackey - and I'm going to give Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar a whirl as well.

Thank you all a lot for all of these suggestions.

I'm so happy that you liked Howl! And thanks for continuing to report back on what you liked, because that gives me something to add to my TBR as well.

Eva wrote: "Hmmm... for similar keen psychological understanding and/or romantic banter mixed with dry humor, you could try:

All Systems Red, Clean Sweep, We Are Legion (We Are Bob), The Strange Case of the Alchemist's Daughter, Minimum Wage Magic, Just One Damned Thing After Another, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, The City of Dreaming Books, or Soulless."

The Strange Case of the Alchemist's Daughter is in my radar.

Have you read all the books in the series of The City of Dreaming Books (Zamonien #4)? Can you read the books separately or do you have to read in chronological order to understand the series?

So further progress on Crosstalk - the annoying relatives are getting less screen time. There have been some clever moments, but I'm finding the length of time it takes things to happen, and the detail of her internal musings to be excessive. Keeping going because there is some good stuff and there has been a new development which is interesting.
Her description of place is vivid and excellent - I particularly like her slightly eccentric library - all good libraries should be a bit eccentric.

I think that if you like a lot of internal dialogue and if you find the annoying relatives hilarious rather than irritating, then you'd adore this book, but for me it is a bit of a slog in places and not always relaxing.

Anna wrote: "I'm so happy that you liked Howl! And thanks for continuing to report back on what you liked, because that gives me something to add to my TBR as well."

You're welcome. I'm enjoying this thread. It can be so hard to find new authors who are 4 and 5 star for your personal taste.

I didn't love Crosstalk, but it was a very easy listen and I had fun with it. I don't mind the way Willis takes forever to get to any point, because I usually enjoy the ride, even if I don't love it. I do absolutely think that the Oxford time travel series and Passage are vastly superior works, but they aren't light and fun, which is what I thought you were going for. Well Dog is funny, but in general the Oxford series isn't light. And yes, Crosstalk is very, well, talky! :D

Regarding Crosstalk, I've had people in my life persistently giving me advice that was based on a position of total ignorance - so that rather got under my skin.

What I am looking for is slightly complicated. I do like light and fun. I dislike grim dark (misery for the sake of misery that seems like at times) but in between those extremes I read a fair bit which has grim content but an energetic, get in there and fix it tone, plus humour and keen observation of people and situations.Paladin's Grace is a fair example of that - the two main characters have some serious grimness in their backstory, the main story includes a serial killer, a dangerous religion, paladins who could go beserk and several of the things that happen to Grace which I won't spoiler here - but there are some gloriously observed moments on all characters from the way Grace is so attentive of scents (and wants to sniff people) to the interactions between the Paladins of Steel and Bishop Beartongue. Or The Silvered which starts with an invasion. In fact a lot of Tanya Huff's works, especially the Confederation series being about a marine sergeant's battles, could technically be seen as dark given the body count - but the tone is light - in the way the marine squad interacts with each other and the jokes they make. I think in fact that puts the finger on it for me for part of my problem with Crosstalk - Briddey has a serious hamster wheel in her head and worries a lot and is not exactly a positive, joking sort of person - so I don't really see it as all that light and fun.

I get what you mean about T. Kingfisher, but I personally haven't really read much that is totally comparable. That's why I was trying to rec things that have had some overlap in the feels for me :) To me Paladin's Grace is fluffy romance, just like Ursula says it is. Despite the severed heads, demons and serial killers! Actually all of the Clocktaur world books are somewhat romancey?

Anyway, let's hope someone swoops in with some excellent recommendations!

You might try Martha Well's fantasy novels (Murderbot was suggested upthread and it's another good one) but her fantasy books are excellent as well, and have characters that are snarky and clever and a bit.... amoral is too strong but pragmatic I guess, sensible in a way that's really enjoyable to read when dealing with fantasy settings.
Her books feel (to me) a little like Vernon/Kingfisher's work in that respect, though a bit less weird, and the humor is more understated.
I'd suggest
The Wizard Hunters or The Cloud Roads as good starting places.

I'd say Paladin's Grace is a romance - but it is a developing relationship romance and all the other characters matter to the book plus there is a big chunk of grittiness. Many romances focus just on the main characters and secondary characters and the surrounding events are just there to hinder (or occasionally help) the romance and have no life of their own. Bujold is the same as T Kingfisher :) I've re-read all her works many times and Cordelia's romance is massively interrupted by war and Miles's by himself, politics and all the spin off from that.
Yes, T KIngfisher and Bujold are both rare birds. :(
@Aerulan - I'll give those a try thanks.

So finished Crosstalk and it was only 3 star for me. Too many things not to my taste. Very vivid books in sense of place, but the almost real-time action (or extensive thinking) when I wasn't always enjoying what was going on (annoying characters, extensive worrying) made it not that much fun. But thank you Anna for taking the time to make recommendations. Sorry I didn't like it better.
Now onto The Voyages of Cinrak the Dapper. Tried the sample and have downloaded the book. Must say the title was a bit of a selling point. :) (We Are Legion (We Are Bob) was another one where I went "what a title" and fortunately on trying the book I liked it. One that had a great title Resenting the Hero just about worked for me on the first book, but after the second I gave up on the series - the main character is an "anchor" and expected to be stolid and calm and her mother is there wanting her to be more responsive and it is a few years since I read it, but my take-away was getting fed-up with that mother-daughter dynamic. Other than that, quite a good fantasy series of paired magic workers.

Ooh, I hope you enjoy Cinrak!

Ah, I'm glad you enjoyed We Are Legion (We Are Bob)! Check out the sequels, as well, they're just as good if not better. :-)

If you don't mind swearing and lots of necromancy being completely normal, you could also try Gideon the Ninth, which was very funny and made my heart ache.

I've just read Kingfisher's A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking last month and loved it, it's very cute.

Have fun with Cinrak the Dapper, that book sounds great!

Oh, I've read the lot with We Are Legion - I'm trying to be better about updating my status on Goodreads - was always trying to do reviews not just ratings and got a back log. Need to re-read those sometime anyway. Re-read the first one a couple of times already I think. At least once.

The Voyages of Cinrak the Dapper is great. I read the first story last night, which was setting the world and the characters and was pretty good. I started the second this morning a few pages in and alternating laughing and smiling. The whole scene with the Phoenix is brilliant. Just reached entrance of the queen for a meeting.

I *love* Muriel! 😄 I’ve been waiting to scream (view spoiler)[ menopausal phoenix! (hide spoiler)] at someone ever since I read it! Maybe wait until 21% to open the spoiler tag.

Yes. Absolutely. I was reading that bit out to my OH. Big laugh, big smile. Gorgeous idea.

And I do love the way she has picked up fairy tales and legends and really integrated them into her world.

I found a video clip of AJ reading an excerpt from the second story! It's a little after they meet O, when they're on the island.

"Perfidy at the Felidae Isles"

I love the way they're dressed in a dapper vest! :D

Finished Cinrak - strong five stars. Thought "must read more A.J. Fitzwater, so without even reading a sample - bit of a mistake - rushed out and bought No Man's Land and it is with a different publisher and rather different - WW2 NZ with young woman off to be a land girl. Hints of magic with a Maori element. So far 25% in and it is not the bouncy read that Cinrak is - well written book but elements of sexism and racism and people being forced to be other than they want to be.

Just got around to reviewing another book that might work for lovers of T Kingfisher Stealing the Elf-King's Roses,:
A great book, re-read several times, most recently in the author's cut eBook direct from the author https://ebooks.direct/.
The premise is a number of parallel worlds and in each one they are different. So there is a human inhabited Earth, Elf inhabited Earth and so on with gates between. It is done at a roughly contemporary level of tech, plus magic. The main character is a trial lawyer with the ability to review past events - as in she can go to a recent crime scene and re-play what happened. The spirit of justice will actually appear to decide on the sentence once the jury has brought in a verdict.
The book starts with a trial, but then becomes more of a mystery thriller.
Not as quirky or as funny as T Kingfisher, but does a good job on secondary characters, odd touch of humour and a reasonable wodge of imagination.

Yay I’m so happy! I also bought Land Girls, but I knew what it was about. I’m hoping there’ll be more Cinrak stories in the future!

edit: Err, not Land Girls, No Man’s Land!

:D I'm now about half way through and liking it better. Still darker than Cinrak but getting weird.

Paused to read Sisters of the Vast Black

And finished No Man's Land and enjoyed it. Very well written and the further I read the more I liked it.

Allison wrote: "If you haven't read them you might like the Wayward Children series starting with Every Heart a Doorway. Skyward is scifi but it checks a lot of the same boxes for m..."

Just finished Every Heart a Doorway and that was good. On the darker end of what I'd read, but done in such a way that it wasn't grim and depressing.

Carro wrote: "Allison wrote: "If you haven't read them you might like the Wayward Children series starting with Every Heart a Doorway. Skyward is scifi but it checks a lot of the ..."

Glad it worked for you!

Had a thought for another few books that might check boxes for people who like T Kingfisher, though they are sf - Julie E Czerneda - it is a trilogy set in the nearish future about a biologist and conservationist who specialises in migration behaviour and is the head of a science research station just off the north west coast of the US at a really big conservation reserve. Does a marvellous job on how scientists and students really are. The story involves various alien races. Very good picture of friendship and possible complexities. The Goodreads links don't seem to be properly populated with the books so here is a fantastic fiction link https://www.fantasticfiction.com/c/ju... - I'm talking about the Species Imperative trilogy.

Edited to add - here is a link to Julie Czerneda's page that I found via a different search
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

Carro, do you mean the series that starts with Survival? I read the first one a while ago, I was super excited for it, but then the writing style just didn't pull me in enough to go on with the series.

Yup. It's one I've re-read a few times. I rather liked the writing style :)

Oddly her fantasy A Turn of Light was one where I didn't get on with her writing style. It came across as rather young in an odd way. I persevered at the start and then really got into the story when it stopped being so Disney-esque, and read the sequel. But when I tried to re-read, I couldn't. The sequel has won prizes I think.

Should have a prize for attention to detail in the world building - she built an actual model of her village and in the trade paperback there is an appendix with photos in it of the models.

I listened to the new audiobook, and maybe it was the wrong time, because I'd really been looking forward to them! I have other books by her on my TBR though.

Read more Murderbot and am enjoying them.

Tried Indexing by Seanan McGuire and just couldn't get on with it. Clever concept, but there was a load of office politics that I couldn't be faffed with.

Now re-reading all the Thursday Next novels and really enjoying the quirkiness of number three The Well of Lost Plots

Adding another potential author for people who like T Kingfisher - Garth Nix - have just finished The Left-Handed Booksellers of London and that isn't quite up there with T Kingfisher's quirkiness but it is inventive, and warm at heart - with plenty of passing danger.

Nix is on my to-read list for Sabriel... if I like it at all I'll have to check out Booksellers. Thanks!

I liked Sabriel - good adventure story in alternate near-Britain with an innovative magic system. Characters are possibly late teens or early twenties.

I'll definitely second Sabriel and Howl's Moving Castle. Nix and Diana Wynne Jones are good suggestions. I think that Robin McKinley is another kindred author. She writes fairy tale retellings as well, and her original fiction like The Blue Sword has a similar feel. (I'd only recommend against Pegasus, which is part of an unfinished trilogy on permanent hiatus.)