The Obscure Reading Group discussion

The discussion of this book will be broken into three parts as follows:

Oct. 1 - 7 Chs. 1-5 inclusive
Oct. 8 - 14 Chs. 6-12 inclusive
Oct. 15-21 Chs. 13-18 (End)

Please try to confine posts to events in each week's chapters so that there are no spoilers for fellow readers.

To launch our Week #1 discussion:

* What struck you in the first third of this book?

* What do you think about Petry's writing style?

* What are your thoughts on pacing and point of view?

* How is this narrative relative both to its times and ours?

* What are your thoughts on the characterization?

* Strengths? Weaknesses?

* Anything else you'd like to bring up?

Well, let me start since It's Oct 1st for me earlier than for most of you. The first impression is how trapped and vulnerable the colored folks are in the vicious cycle of poverty. The blustery wind in the opening chapter overpowers everything. It parallels the powerlessness felt by Lutie and Min. I cannot help feeling sorry for Lutie who ends up in an apartment she can ill afford only to put herself in an even more unsafe place to live. She is fully aware of Jones' intentions but she does not have much of a choice. From the frying pan to the fire for her.

Petry did a wonderful job, right from the start, in portraying Lutie as an intelligent woman who is street smart. I admire her optimism and confidence, and hope she can make life better for herself and her son. I like how Petry let us into the thoughts of her characters, so we can judge them for ourselves. Notice that Lutie, Jones and Min all have their own history of hardship, which helped us to see why they became who they are. It is the same story for them all - a life of being rejected, manipulated, abused, and treated like trash. It is heartbreaking. But here is Lutie who aspires to a better life and I shudder to think the odds are just too great to surmount.

I'll begin by saying that though the writing has been brilliant from the beginning, the start was slow, but had me intrigued. It was only when the perspective starting shifting between the characters that I became truly invested; I wasn't expecting to move from Lutie's point of view, but it makes the story so much richer, I think. Chapter 4, from Jones' view, was just startling—it was tense and disturbing: already the characters are coming to life.

Interesting point about the wind in the opening paragraphs, Laysee. I never linked it to power and powerlessness, but the parallels work! And for Lutie, life is cold, indeed, whether viewed from the chic seashore town of Lyme, Connecticut, or from Harlem.

And I agree about the point of view strategy, Matt. Jumping into Jones' POV was not a pleasant ride. After we've warmed up to Lutie and her struggles, suddenly the reader is forced to see her in the sights of a predator. It's an unpleasant sensation, to say the least.

A book I read in 2015, $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America by Kathryn J. Edin which is described in the GR blurb as "A revelatory account of poverty in America so deep that we, as a country, don’t think it exists" was eye-opening to me and made me realize what a bubble I live in. The Street gives me similar insight. There is this "pull oneself up by one's bootstraps" strain of thought in America that sort of supports the ideal of the American dream. Lutie has started to buy into that but something tells me it is not going to go well for her.

It is always a wrenching feeling when the pov shifts to a different character in a book. The shift from Lutie to Jones was particularly difficult because I had developed a real sympathy for Lutie and just really like her character and story. At the same time I thought it was a skillful way of confirming Lutie's instincts about Jones and his lecherous behavior.

Overall, I thought the pacing was good. The book started slow as others note above but I was really hooked from the first couple of pages and did not feel like I wanted to put it down or was uninterested. The shifting perspective always bothers me a little bit but in the end, I liked the character shifts, especially when it shifted from Jones to Min. At first, as a reader, I kind of dismissed Min as being unimportant but she is actually a pretty interesting character too.

The entire first chapter had me mentally screaming, no, don't take the apartment, run as fast as you can, find something else! But there was nothing else except staying with her father and all that entailed for her son. Two terrible choices. I realized that although I have been poor, I have lived paycheck to paycheck, I have never been without options. Some of that can be attributed to family and friends, but my white skin enabled me to have certain advantages as well. The two years she spent in Connecticut were the beginning of her problems, but was also a sharp contrast to what she returned to. It did give her a vision of what might be possible, but also showed her that money couldn't prevent misery and unhappiness.
I had assumed the whole book would be from Lutie's pov, but liked getting the backstory of Jones and Min. No one in this novel so far has had it easy. I'm hoping for the best for Lutie and her son, but we'll see.
The root doctors have probably been busy this year.

Good point, Laysee, about the power shift with the pov shift. I was feeling most concerned for Lutie's financial situation and the desperate position it might put her in with regard to the activities going on in the apartment of Mrs. Hedges, another interesting character, a sort of omniscient presence, always observing what goes on in the street. The shift to Jones pov changed my fears for Lutie and Bub to physical fears as well. The dangers for Bub living with his grandfather and the girlfriend may have been nothing, weighed against what Jones is capable of doing to him, both physically and psychologically.

Petry writes with conviction! I felt the creepiness of Jones prowling around Lutie's apartment and fingering her dresses, to my toes. Diane, as much as you wanted to scream at Lutie not to take the apartment, I want to scream at Min, move on.

Sara wrote: "Good point, Laysee, about the power shift with the pov shift. I was feeling most concerned for Lutie's financial situation and the desperate position it might put her in with regard to the activiti..."


Two things, Sara.

1. Jones touching and smelling Lutie's clothing in her absence, along with his brutality to his dog, is the sort of behavior consistent with rapists and murderers. Whether Petry knew this from studies in criminology, which are far more advanced today, I can't say. It may just have been keen instincts on her part.

2. Weirdly, considering she is a "madam," Mrs. Hedges struck me as a "conscience" type of presence, watching over all goings on in the neighborhood, judging over all goings on in the neighborhood. It vaguely reminded me of that big eye in The Great Gatsby. I forget its name, but I think it was a billboard ad overseeing poor behaviors of the rich.

I see Mrs. Hedges much the same, Ken. She almost warns Min that the root doctor is not the solution to her problem, but gives her the directions to him just the same. And, she refuses the money, which is telling of character, since money is a tight commodity for all these people. She is the watcher, who sees Jones' obsession with Lutie.

I initially saw her as a threat to Lutie, because so many girls fall into prostitution when they cannot make it any other way, but that quickly shifted. She does still represent that temptation and she does say Lutie is "marked down for somebody else", so perhaps she has her own evil intents for Lutie as well. I have not yet decided if Lutie is caught between two devils who are casting lots for her soul or if Mrs. Hedges will prove to be a place to turn to be saved from the devil here who is obvious.

I love your point about the wind too, Laysee, and agree with everyone about the point of view shifts.

I'm noticing how Petry uncovers meaning in little, familiar details. The kitchen, for example, in the poster Lutie stares at on the bus. We all have a kitchen somewhere on the spectrum between Lutie's and the one in Connecticut, and if we haven't had to deal with trying to keep old fixtures and cracking floors clean, we begin to think about how it must not be easy. I think this is the way she helps us see a world we may not know.

I was also really struck by Min in the last chapter, the way she transformed after being listened to--after being seen. We all so much want to be seen, yet it's so easy to not see people.

And I have to say about Jones' dog ... (we almost get the dog's point of view too, the way Buddy is earlier described). When Jones is prevented from hitting Min, he kicks the dog. Sadly, the least powerful being bears the brunt of others' frustrations.

Excellent observation, Ken and Sara, about Mrs. Hedge. She is indeed the eye of Dr. T. J. Eckleburg (in The Great Gatsby) or an omniscient presence in the apartment building. Her role is a strange and oddly incongruent one - she runs a brothel and lives off the earnings of the girls who work for her but she is also ever ready to help the women (like Min) in the building. That is probably why Lutie has mixed feelings toward her.

Great observations , Kathleen. About the kitchen, when Lutie's was described, my mind went back to my grandmother, who would scrub her worn out linoleum, on her knees, every Saturday, to make sure it was spotless. Not only do the Conn. family have a kitchen that is modern and beautiful, but it is someone else's job to keep it spotless, not theirs. It is a brilliant choice to make the comparison between the two classes and what divides them.

Kathleen, I noticed the power of that ad in the bus as well. A perfect way for Petry to show us the contrast between the ideal and the reality. Mrs. Hedges is hard to pin down on the good vs. evil scale. She seems able to read the minds of the people she watches, but maybe that is the result of her observational skills. I'm wondering if we will get her point of view later on. I'm also hoping that Min's "voodoo" will work to counteract Jones evil intents. I wanted Min to leave as well, but she has nowhere to go. She is finding her power in other ways, such as the table with the hidden drawer.

Some quotes of note:


"Granny would have said, 'Nothin' but evil, child. Some folks so full of it you can feel it comin' at you -- oozin' out of their skins.'

Not sure why I marked this. I think when I read it, I felt there was a lot more of it going around in the world today. Oozing, I mean. 1930s style oozing.


"That's the kind of big ugly furniture white women love to give to their maids."

There are many quotes similar to this, making me sense that Petry herself had experiences to draw on when it came to dynamics between races.


Jim to Lutie: "'God damn white people anyway. I don't want favors. All I want is a job. Just a job. Don't they know if I knew how I'd change the color of my skin?'"

Sad sentiment, this, where a man would regret the skin he was born in. It also struck me that many white people today complain about minorities lining up for "favors" such as welfare or food stamps or whatever. Hearing that makes me do a slow burn. When it comes to government assistance, people of every race line up with bells on. And don't get me started on tax dodging. It's a rich man's game, mostly. White and male, mostly. Isn't this the same sin from the other direction?


Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy: "It's best that the man do the work when the babies are young. And when the man is young. Not good for the woman to work when she's young. Not good for the man."

Foreshadowing, anyone? I sympathized with Lutie's fury when she came home to see money she'd been sending from Connecticut was being used by Jim to support a mistress, all in front of Bub yet.


Among the snatches of conversation Lutie overhears while working in Old Lyme, CT: "Sure, she's a wonderful cook. But I wouldn't have any good-looking colored wench in my house. Not with John. You know they're always making passes at men. Especially white men."

Only last month I read Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America and this was exactly the kind of racism Xendi talked about in that book-- stereotypes about both black men and black women and how deeply entrenched they are thanks to our history of slavery especially -- a legacy we are still dealing with today.


Lutie to Bub after she finds him shining shoes at age 8 (guess WHO helped him make the shoeshine box): "You see, colored people have been shining shoes and washing clothes and scrubbing floors for years and years. White people seem to think that's the only kind of work they're fit to do. The hard work. The dirty work. The work that pays the least."


There's a lot of this in the book, and I find it most satisfying to read in light of all of the racial unrest this past year. This is how far we haven't come. Only now the focus is more on a more deadly type of racial profiling.


As you can see, I've been pleasantly surprised with how openly Petry addresses racism and sexism in her 1940s manuscript. I thought authors might have to be more careful then, but that is thankfully not the case.

* What struck you in the first third of this book?

Grit.
Grit is present in every aspect of this first third of the story for me.

First, in the physical descriptions from the very first chapter, there are numerous references to the world Lutie and Bud live in: "dirt and dust and grime on the sidewalk," floors with "the wood . . . so old and so discolored that no amount of varnish or shellac would conceal the scars and scraped places," and so many other descriptions of "ghastly places not fit for humans." It seems all five of my senses were engaged as Lutie stood outside of the apartment and then walked up to it and then through the rooms. Like grit, some regular dirt or dust had settled, but then nothing could remove it -- or there had been neglect -- and all the surfaces grew worn down and seemingly beyond repair.

Lutie and Bud are the ones who are the main concern here, and this grit down invades their own beings. They can't escape it. Everywhere, "the dirt got into their noses, making it difficult for them to breathe; the dust got into their eyes and blinded them; and the grit stung their skins. (9)" Though other characters are not main concern in these first chapters, they all live somewhere along "the street" and are caught up in the same worn-down, debilitated neighborhoods.

"Grit" applies to the people, too. First, they're worn down in many ways. Maybe their plights come from their own characters and bad choices -- what dust and dirt did they themselves kick up? More than that, however, I imagined that many of them became worn down through neglect or too few resources to "clean up" the problems. For those who fall into the second half, those are the people with the "grit" that reveals tenacious bravery. These are the ones with "grit" to endure the hardships and come through, maybe even dragging others through with them.

Lutie has that quality of bold, courageous "grit." She is well aware of all that has gone wrong, and she has enough courage to want to deal with it. I'm touched that she is willing to go into forbidding situations which she strongly intuits will hurt her in order to make a better start for her son, Bud. She not only wants to protect him, but she even wants to indulge him a bit in giving a few extra comforts (his own room, better-tasting food for lunch, even an eye for a park to play in). Still, with every step she new decision she makes, she finds herself still facing the external grit and having to delve into her own sensible, obstinate"grittiness." I love that courageous spirit she has cultivated.

* * *
Another thing I've noted from these first chapters is Lutie's constant moving. She's working, riding a subway, walking, striding, waiting in line in order to move forward, on and on. She is in constant motion, yet it seems she cannot move forward. I imagine her being extremely tired. Yes, I can extend these to the others in the story, but for these first chapters I see the grit and the constant, exhausting movement focused in Lutie.

Ken wrote: "The discussion of this book will be broken into three parts as follows:

Oct. 1 - 7 Chs. 1-5 inclusive
Oct. 8 - 14 Chs. 6-12 inclusive
Oct. 15-21 Chs. 13-18 (End)

Please try to confine posts to ev..."

Oooh, I agree with all of your points, Ken! Great quotes you picked. I'll just comment on two.

Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy: "It's best that the man do the work when the babies are young. And when the man is young. Not good for the woman to work when she's young. Not good for the man."
This really struck me as something that is often still true today. I've worked with many women who are the breadwinners in their family, and whose husbands often stay home with the kids. As evolved as fathers have become, I know of many situations where this didn't work out well--not necessarily because they cheated, but their confidence was damaged, like the men in this story who can't find jobs. (Perhaps women have a gender role--no matter how outdated--to fall back on and bolster their confidence, if they are the ones who can't find a job.) We are learning to break down boundaries, but like our racism, I think our gender expectations may take a surprisingly long time to change.

And about the shoe shine box--I loved this. My husband used to shine shoes when he was a kid, and I thought, isn't that nice, you know, like a paper route. He had to explain to me what a dirty, subservient job this was seen as, and how lowly the shiners were made to feel by the people who could afford to have their shoes shined. (He enjoyed it otherwise, especially snapping the rag!)

As you say, Ken, "This is how far we haven't come."

Ken wrote: "Some quotes of note:


"Granny would have said, 'Nothin' but evil, child. Some folks so full of it you can feel it comin' at you -- oozin' out of their skins.'

Not sure why I marked this. I think ..."

These are all wonderful quotes, Ken.

I love the character of Granny who becomes stronger and more vivid in Lutie's memories and our awareness. All of her warnings and wisdom guide Lutie's decisions, or at least Lutie has to rationalize why she has to make decisions which go against Granny's words. From warnings about safety to tips about how to navigate the neighborhood butcher, Granny's experiences reveal how years may pass but the cruelties/injustices remain.

Also, I cringed when I read about the furniture which white women give to their help. It's a step up from throwing it out, or perhaps it's a way of not having to throw out anything to begin with. Even the descriptions of how Mrs. Chandler ("chandelier"?) would chat with her on the train but then seemingly shut off open entering regular societey again revealed that the help/minority women were not deemed valuable.

Ken, you wrote: "As you can see, I've been pleasantly surprised with how openly Petry addresses racism and sexism in her 1940s manuscript. I thought authors might have to be more careful then, but that is thankfully not the case." I agree that I'm thankful so much is addressed here. Still, I wonder if Petry may have been minimized or overlooked to begin with (think about the ugly furniture). As a Black woman, did she have freedom to present what others would not be able to address? Was she overlooked even in her time? Perhaps. After all, I had never heard of her or this book until reading about it here in the group.

How many of our emerging poets, writers, and activists are overlooked because of status or the lack of status? We certainly have a great deal underway right now, and I wonder how we'll be "read" in the future.

Laysee wrote: "Well, let me start since It's Oct 1st for me earlier than for most of you. The first impression is how trapped and vulnerable the colored folks are in the vicious cycle of poverty. The blustery win..."

Yes, Laysee, I like how much I'm learning about the characters as the story emerges. I'm also struck by how much they have forcefully coming against them from the onset. The whipping wind seems painful itself, and it's just one of the forces Lutie always has to face. I'm enjoying reading the details again now as I return to the discussion.

Matthew wrote: "I'll begin by saying that though the writing has been brilliant from the beginning, the start was slow, but had me intrigued. It was only when the perspective starting shifting between the characte..."

Hello, Matthew,
I've enjoyed seeing the different perspectives. Early on I wrote in my notes that I anticipated that various voices/perspectives would emerge. They're all on "the street" -- passing each other, moving in and out of apartments, working, cluttering or cleaning, and so on -- but they're all in the same situation.

Kathleen wrote: "I love your point about the wind too, Laysee, and agree with everyone about the point of view shifts.

I'm noticing how Petry uncovers meaning in little, familiar details. The kitchen, for example,..."

Hello, Kathleen, I'm struck by your comment about power and the "least powerful" taking the worst of the frustrations, anger, and pent-up energy. Those with the least power are blamed for being powerless. The poor are blamed for being poor, and even here with all the evidence of daily life laid out so many of those old rationalizations are in play.

Darrin wrote: "A book I read in 2015, $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America by Kathryn J. Edin which is described in the GR blurb as "A revelatory account of poverty in A..."

I've added that book to my reading list, Darrin. Thank You!
I agree that the concepts with those proverbial bootstraps has far more holes than we want to admit. I agree that Lutie (hardworking, quick, always moving forward) keeps that in mind, and she even rationalizes herself out of many "warnings" and internal doubts. If she works more, does more, and sacrifices more, her dreams will come true, as basic as they are -- what we see as rights: a safe home, good education, meaningful work, and so on.

I'm not sure when I'll read that new book, but it will be well-informed following this discussion.

"Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy: "It's best that the man do the work when the babies are young. And when the man is young. Not good for the woman to work when she's young. Not good for the man."

Ken and Kathleen, Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy did foreshadow Lutie's future when she took on the job as a maid in Connecticut. You immediately know to expect trouble on her home front. I agree with Kathleen's observation that this is still true today, with damage to the men's self-worth. In Southeast Asia, Singapore for example, families employ domestic foreign workers, many of whom are young women from the Philippines, Indonesia, Mynmar, etc, Like Lutie, they leave behind their own young children to look after the children of families who can afford to hire them They send money home to their families. But the strain of living apart often ends predictably with their husbands taking on a mistress in their absence and their marriages breaking up. Life today for the poor in many parts of the world is not that much different for folks who experienced similar struggles in the 1940s.

Jan wrote: "* What struck you in the first third of this book?

Grit.
Grit is present in every aspect of this first third of the story for me.
First, in the physical descriptions from the very first chapter..."

Wow, Jan, thank you for this excellent commentary. Indeed, grit is a sharp and fitting description of Lutie's strength. It also encapsulates the challenging living conditions on 116th street. I believe grit foreshadows what Lutie will need in even greater measure in days to come.

Re: Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy about letting the men work.
It seems to me that, black or white, way too much time is spent in protecting the fragile egos of males, then and now. That is bred into all cultures, and all women are aware of it from an early age. The black race has the added onus of protecting the feeling of entitlement of white skinned people, for their own protection. Petry has done an excellent job so far of describing both these things. The women in this novel are the stronger sex in all ways. Even Min, the tiny little mouse-like woman, finds a way to fight back. So far, there are no good men to admire, except Bub, and Lutie is fighting to raise him to be strong and independent, unlike the men he sees on the street everyday.

Laysee wrote: ""Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy: "It's best that the man do the work when the babies are young. And when the man is young. Not good for the woman to work when she's young. Not good for the man."

Ken and ..."

Yes, I agree, Laysee. The expectations about work are placed on the individuals: the best possible work for men and home care for women (just not the care of others' homes). What a terrible bind Lutie is in when she has to work as a maid and child-rearer in a white woman's home only to find that another woman has moved into her "place" in her own family.

Once they have their own apartment, Lutie then places ideal work expectations on Bub when he wants to shine shoes in a joking way, and she scowls that he needs other work. I agree with many of the conflicts she had, but I wonder what additional lessons are being passed on. Will he grow up refusing to do certain work? Will he look down on others who do that work?

The expectations are everpresent, and people continue to be blamed if they don't "rise above" their situations, and then they may turn against each other for the work they need to take on. Everyone on the street must survive within their limited options.

Diane wrote: "Re: Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy about letting the men work.
It seems to me that, black or white, way too much time is spent in protecting the fragile egos of males, then and now. That is bred into all ..."

Hello, Diane,

Good observation about how people will protect the fragile egos they come up against! What we see and then refuse to see can be our undoing.

I couldn't help looking at the situation of the men and thinking this is the beginning of the absence of fathers in the homes in the black community, a problem that is still being felt today. It is much harder for a single parent to provide both the financial and the emotional stability the children need. So, we see Lutie being torn to pieces over trying to provide for Bub and raise him well. With no father figure, he is left to find one in the likes of "Supe", and what could be worse than that?

Wow, there are some excellent insights here on this thread! I have to dig around some in my notes and see if there are any additional points I can add here. I do very much like the pacing and the alternate points of view. I find it extremely effective in this case. Characterizations are skilled and very convincing. Lutie is shrewd and hard working. Always watchful. Grandmothers have played such important roles in the back stories of several books I've read recently. Makes me think of my own grandmother who worked three jobs as a single mother back in her day. Both she and my mother learned some important lessons and also suffered quite a bit, unfortunately. In any case, I often celebrate the grandmothers in such novels :)

One section I've highlighted is this:
"Reasonable - now that could mean almost anything. On Eighth Avenue it meant tenements - ghastly places not fit for humans. On St. Nicholas Avenue it meant high rents for small apartments; and on Seventh Avenue it meant great big apartments where you had to take in roomers in order to pay the rent. On this street it could mean almost anything."

One of the biggest issues that I believe still needs to be addressed is the housing issue for people of color. Obviously, this has a direct correlation with educational opportunities or lack thereof. Being forced into inadequate housing is linked to poorer school districts and all that comes with that disadvantage as well. One of my Goodreads friends has recommended I read the book The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America which I have purchased but have not yet picked up. I think I will do so shortly after reading Petry's work. I think it will be very relatable and informative.

I'm very much enjoying this novel and you've all added greatly to the experience thus far. I'm having a difficult week as my second pet is on a downward decline following the death of my dog just two months ago. I'll try to add to the discussion if I can, but I'm a bit scattered of late, unfortunately.

So sorry, Candi. I have two 11 year old Labs, and I live in fear of their downhill slide. Hopefully I have a few more years, but pets in ill health can certainly be distracting.
I have a stone in the pit of my stomach every time I pick up this book. I so badly want things to go well for Lutie, but I'm very afraid they won't.

Candi, I'm so sorry to hear what you're dealing with. Nothing helps, but maybe knowing how many of us understand will be comforting.

I love that you pointed out the housing issue, and that "reasonable" line. Such a loaded word!

And Jan, you described that "grit" so well, and the "tenacious bravery" behind it.

And I totally agree with Angela about that crumpled blouse scene--man! So vivid and disturbing.

Thank you, Diane and Kathleen. I know all pet owners and animal lovers have gone through this, and it is a comfort to know you're not alone :)

I also feel your sorrow over your pets, Candi. They give us so much, it is sad when they are old or sick.

I also appreciate your comments about housing. The lack of a decent living environment and the lack of proper supervision for the children are two of the most wrenching conditions we see here. Lutie breaks my heart because what she wants is so basic that most of us take it for granted.

I fear for her as well, Diane.

Candi wrote: "Thank you, Diane and Kathleen. I know all pet owners and animal lovers have gone through this, and it is a comfort to know you're not alone :)"

2020 is going down as a very bad year thanks to national and world goings-on. It seems especially cruel, then, when bad things happen on a personal level, too.

I lost my dog of 16 years back in April. Third time around for me, but it doesn't get easier when you bring a dog with cancer to the vet's one last time. Harder, seems.

So my heart goes out to you, Candi, on this your second ordeal. Perhaps books will help you get through!

Jan wrote: "Darrin wrote: "A book I read in 2015, $2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America by Kathryn J. Edin which is described in the GR blurb as "A revelatory account ..."

Jan, I was just really struck also by how much things have stayed the same. When I read a book from 1946 that is set in the 1940s and then I read a book like $2.00 a Day that is set in today's US and little has changed, it really underscores the problem of long-term systemic and structural racism.

Candi wrote: "Thank you, Diane and Kathleen. I know all pet owners and animal lovers have gone through this, and it is a comfort to know you're not alone :)"

Candi, my heart goes out to you as well. We have an 11 year old little mutt called Casey and we know he is aging and slowing down. My wife and I are starting to worry more and more that he will start having significant medical problems. It is hard to even talk about how much we will miss him when that day inevitably happens. He is our first family dog.

I had a dream about two of our beloved dogs last night. They've been gone over a decade now, but they still visit me often in my dreams ...

What a great discussion. This book reads as if it was written yesterday instead of 80 years ago. As has been mentioned, structural racism is definitely alive and well. I do wonder how people can deny its existence today. While my family did not have much money when I was young, one thing we did have was white skin. Now I realize how much of a difference that made in my life.

Another element of this book that struck me was the power of its prose. Petry
used metaphor so well, like that wind that became a physical entity fighting Lutie and everyone else that day. She uses the dark, and occasionally light, the same way, as a physical presence addition to Jones, making Jones larger, more powerful. Petry’s way with language was so powerful. The initial section set on the stairs of the apartment building was a lesson in suspense.

I’m looking forward to learning more about everyone involved but I also fear that the outcome is unlikely to be happy.

Sue wrote: "What a great discussion. This book reads as if it was written yesterday instead of 80 years ago. As has been mentioned, structural racism is definitely alive and well. I do wonder how people can de..."

Yes, Sue, the bit on the stairs using light and dark reminded me a bit of Hitchcock films. You know, that subtle scary that works better on the imagination than in-your-face scary like a lot of films today.


Did we bring up the latchkey kid issue? I'm not sure why, but Bub, who I think is all of 8, is home alone an awful lot out of necessity. I found this jarring, the type of thing that, in 2020, might more than raise eyebrows.

Of course, this book isn't 2020. And I wonder how many kids, even IN 2020, are home alone -- night and day -- at a young age.

Yes, kids left alone out of necessity, because there is absolutely no choice. I have a hard time with Lutie's decision to leave her father's house. It seems like she's now put both herself and Bub at much greater risk.

Thanks everyone, for your kind comments regarding pets. They sure can be a comfort during the rough patches, you just want them to live on and on :)

This book is incredibly relevant and engaging. It's a wonderful distraction.

Latchkey kids always worry me. It's such a predicament to be in - needing to work to survive, and just barely in some situations. Then leaving children to their own devices and possibly under the influence of such people as Supe!

I worry just as much, if not more, for Bub than I do for Lutie. He is so innocent and trusting. She at least knows that there are dangers around her and that she has to be on watch. She got the apartment primarily for Bub, how terrible if it turns out to be his undoing.

It's a good point about Bub. He is innocent and trusting. I was also taken aback by Lutie's reaction when he was so proud of the shoeshine box. Slapping him like that was abusive and showed Lutie isn't always in control herself. She is building these narratives in her head and when something doesn't fit the narrative she overreacts. I wonder if this behavior will have consequences later on in the novel.

It's interesting how much she admires Ben Franklin but when Bub shows some enterprise she flies off the handle because what he's chosen isn't what she wants for him. (Remember, he's only eight years old.) She assumes that if he shines shoes that it will ruin his future and I think that assumption is wrong on many levels.

It's like telling a kid he or she can't have a lemonade stand. She is ruining the spirit of his entrepreneurship. She is in essence telling him his ideas don't matter only what she wants for him matters.

I also thought it was an interesting metaphor that Min had a canary in a cage which cheered her up but what about the canary? What about people being trapped by poverty? Is that a cage too? What about the shoeshine box? Is it liberating or limiting?

I'm not sure what to make of Min's visit to David, the Prophet. Or the character, Mrs. Hedges. Maybe that will become clearer later on in the novel.

Good points, Cindy. All eyes have been on the badly behaving men in this novel, which certainly helps the struggling protagonist to look good by comparison. But slapping a kid for shining shoes? Hmn. Not sure it can be written off like spanking was back in the day (I don't consider my parents abusive for spanking me as a kid, but spank they did, early and often. Still, not the same as slapping the face.)

Your canary remark brings to mind "I Know Why the Cage Bird Sings," the Maya Angelou outing that I haven't read (unless excerpts count, and they don't).

Why DOES a caged bird sing? Are all these characters "caged" in their way? And can't the same be said for every human, to one degree or another?

I think you make a great point, Cindy: She is building these narratives in her head and when something doesn't fit the narrative she overreacts. We see a number of rash moves she's made, like what was said above about the move to leave her father's house. Through the writing though, we're seeing why someone might be more inclined to make those mistakes than maybe someone in a better situation.

So Ken I don't necessarily agree that the emphasis is on men behaving badly. The women aren't doing so well either. But I love your point about the caged bird--definitely we all are to some extent, and reading can help us understand the particular cages, I guess.

I loved the book I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, but didn't realize there was a poem too:
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...

How appropriate it is for this book--thanks Cindy and Ken!

Good points, Cindy and Ken.

I thought of that old adage "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." Lutie wants to do what is right for Bub, but what she does is wrong. That slap could have lasting effects she doesn't want it to have. Instead of steering him away from menial jobs or making him strive for something better in life, it might make him afraid to step on the ladder at all or make him resentful of her.

I think perhaps you are right, Ken, and all people are caged to some extent, but some of our cages are made by ourselves and some cages are made by others, and these people are born into cages they had no hand in fashioning.

I was behind in my reading and so did not get to ‘The Street’ until yesterday. The reading was quite good, so I am all caught up. 😊

After I read this review, I am anxious to read other people’s review on this novel. I purposefully never read other people’s reviews before I write my review to avoid bias on my part, other than what I bring to the table (i.e., I took part on the voting for the reading of this book so was aware of the synopsis of the book provided by the moderator of this group).

What I like about the novel is something I had not expected while reading the first couple of chapters — that it provides points of view of multiple people and not just Lutie. So, I get to figure out what is in the heads of different people who know Lutie. One thing that struck me and perhaps why this book apparently struck a chord with some readers in the US in 1946 was the in-your-face racism in this country in that time. It is raw and impossible to gloss over via Petry’s excellent prose. Personally, as a white man, it was an indictment on me and my race. There was systemic racism in the United States in 1946. On the cover of my re-issue of the book (Virago Modern Classics, 2020) Yayari Jones of the New York Times says this book is prescient. I would agree, and would say there is systemic racism, still, in the United States. Perhaps different (I am not sure) but it exists. I work in Chicago and live near Chicago, and there are neighborhoods in which Black people are segregated, and there is nightly violence and on any given week multiple murders in those neighborhoods. Food deserts. Sub-standard schooling. And I watch the nightly news and have become numbed to such reports. NIMBY. Not me who is pulling the trigger. I feel helpless…I don’t know what to do to contribute to help to deal with this problem.

I am done with the second set of chapters and I don’t look forward to Lutie’s future. Jones has schemes to get back at Lutie by destroying Bub’s life, because she snubbed his attempted rape of her (although his screwed-up mind thinks it wasn’t an attempted rape). Multiple men throughout these chapters have let their intentions be known to us on how they view Lutie: they all want to go to bed with her because of how she looks…they don’t know her or what’s in her head. It’s all in how she looks. Attractive. And now Junto is lined up to get her. I don’t know what his motives are…does he want to go to bed with her or does he and Mrs. Hedges want her as a high-priced prostitute for white men? I don’t know. I guess I’ll find out next week.

I oftentimes take notes on what I read. The most frequent notation in the two pages of notes I have taken so far of ‘The Street’ is “good writing”. I would read a couple sentences or a paragraph or several paragraphs and make such a notation. So, I will post this review and then look forward to reading other GR reviewers’ POVs. 🧐

Matthew wrote: "I'll begin by saying that though the writing has been brilliant from the beginning, the start was slow, but had me intrigued. It was only when the perspective starting shifting between the characte..."

Yes, the addition of multiple points of view enhanced my interest in the novel.

Laysee wrote: ""Mrs. Pizzini's prophecy: "It's best that the man do the work when the babies are young. And when the man is young. Not good for the woman to work when she's young. Not good for the man."

Ken and ..."

Well said! Sadly...

Sue wrote: "What a great discussion. This book reads as if it was written yesterday instead of 80 years ago. As has been mentioned, structural racism is definitely alive and well. I do wonder how people can de..."

Well said, Sue.