Early American Literature discussion

Discussion thread for The Prince and the Pauper by Mark Twain. If your comment includes spoiler please remember to use the "hide spoilers" link. 😊

(view spoiler)[Can't wait to read it! 🤣 (hide spoiler)]

Emma wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

🤦‍♀️🤣

Meg wrote: "Emma wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

🤦‍♀️🤣"

I had to make sure I remembered how to do it!! 🤣🤣

Emma wrote: "Meg wrote: "Emma wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

🤦‍♀️🤣"

I had to make sure I remembered how to do it!! 🤣🤣"

Mhmmm… 🙄🤣

Meg wrote: "Emma wrote: "Meg wrote: "Emma wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

🤦‍♀️🤣"

I had to make sure I remembered how to do it!! 🤣🤣"

Mhmmm… 🙄🤣"

🤭

This is probably my favorite Mark Twain book! I think I've read it at least 3 times. In my opinion it's just a really interesting story and doesn't seem to have too much of Twain's characteristic sarcasm... 😂

Meg wrote: "This is probably my favorite Mark Twain book! I think I've read it at least 3 times. In my opinion it's just a really interesting story and doesn't seem to have too much of Twain's characteristic s..."

So that means you probably won't join in it this time? 😂

Emma wrote: "So that means you probably won't join in it this time? 😂"

Well I'll be following the discussion and may skim it over just to jog my memory, but I guess I won't be officially reading it. 😊

Meg wrote: "Emma wrote: "So that means you probably won't join in it this time? 😂"

Well I'll be following the discussion and may skim it over just to jog my memory, but I guess I won't be officially reading i..."

I suppose that will be acceptable...🤣🤣

Dorry and I actually watched the 1937 movie last week. It stars Errol Flynn as Miles Hendon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSkvR...

I've actually never read any Twain. I may have attempted Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn on my own in the middle school years but without any direction or context I gave up. I am looking forward to dipping my toes in the water with this book.

I've never read any Twain yet, either, so I'm very excited about this, too!

Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂

Allyson wrote: "Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂"

Why yes, indeed! I didn't know thou hads't officially started it! It is a beautiful book, and I am immensely enjoying it!

Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂"

Why yes, indeed! I didn't know thou hads't officia..."

And by officially doest thou meanest that I hast not puteth it on Goodreads? If so, then why I courseth I haveth noteth. For I havest had not the time for such things. I've been to busy talkething in old English!!!

This shalt be an interesting conversation! 😂

Allyson wrote: "Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂"

Why yes, indeed! I didn't know thou h..."

Why, yes, of courseth that's whateth I meanteth!! You never puteth your books on here!!

Meg wrote: "This shalt be an interesting conversation! 😂"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂"

Why yes, indeed! I di..."

I do indeedeth put every singleth book I readeth on here!! Some are a tadeth tardy, but that is alleth!!

Meg wrote: "This shalt be an interesting conversation! 😂"

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Allyson wrote: "I do indeedeth put every singleth book I readeth on here!! Some are a tadeth tardy, but that is alleth!!"

🙄🤣🤣🤣🤣

I read this book out loud to my wife back in the mid-80s, and we both liked it, though I've never gotten around to reviewing it. (As a kid, I'd read a child's adapted version of it, but I've never put that one on my Goodreads shelves because I've long since forgotten the adapter's name. :-( ) Twain is a writer I count as a favorite, though I haven't read much of his writing in recent years. He's not usually thought of as a New England author; but he lived in Hartford, Connecticut for 20 years (1871-91), and The Prince and the Pauper was written there.

The premise of look-alike characters temporarily switching lives has often been borrowed by modern book writers and filmmakers; but those works tend to stress the benefit of seeing life from another perspective. Twain's main message, though, is quite different: he's delivering a devastating critique of a society that assigns such different benefits and life opportunities to two boys --who are innately practically identical-- based solely on artificial divisions of class and wealth determined by birth. That criticism applies as much to society in his own day (and in ours) as in the 16th century.

Have to admit I cheated and started the book early but I have so many going at once it will probably take me the most of the month to finish it. lol

Werner wrote: "I read this book out loud to my wife back in the mid-80s, and we both liked it, though I've never gotten around to reviewing it. (As a kid, I'd read a child's adapted version of it, but I've never ..."

Very interesting information, Werner! I was wondering if this was written while he lived in Hartford but hadn't had a chance to look it up yet. And I agree...I tend to associate him more with the Midwest than New England.

Doreen wrote: "Have to admit I cheated and started the book early but I have so many going at once it will probably take me the most of the month to finish it. lol"

I noticed that, Doreen! 😂 That's perfectly alright though...I know the feeling of too many books to read!

I love Mark Twain. 😊

Allyson wrote: "I love Mark Twain. 😊"

*loveth

Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "I love Mark Twain. 😊"

*loveth"

🙄😂

Meg wrote: "I tend to associate him more with the Midwest than New England."

He was born and raised in Missouri, and worked in his youth on the crew of a Mississippi river boat. But he got around quite a bit; after the Civil War, he went west to Nevada and California (and even got as far as Hawaii, as a newspaper reporter). During the 1890s, he and his family mostly lived in Europe, and he spent his last years primarily in New York City (though he still owned his mansion in Connecticut, Stormfield, and was there when he died in 1910.)

Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "I love Mark Twain. 😊"

*loveth"

*lovest

Meg wrote: "Emma wrote: "Allyson wrote: "I love Mark Twain. 😊"

*loveth"

*lovest"

🙄🤣🤣🤣

I love Mark Twain too, especially his unpublished writings, still coming out (the second volume of The Autobiography appeared, what, three or four years ago?). // Re Prince/Pauper, it's interesting to me that Twain explored the Double/Doppelganger trope in at least two other novels -- Pudd'nhead Wilson and Huck Finn -- with different intentions (insofar as we can possibly infer authorial intention in fiction). In Pudd'nhead, the charm we see in Prince and Pauper has worn off: its subject is American racism, not the English class system, and it's hard if not impossible to pin down Twain's point-of-view. It's a nasty little book, bleakly ironical -- look what thirteen years had done to Mark Twain! PW has a lot more of Twain's misanthropy (best found in his posthumous writings), so there's a key there. Meanwhile, at the end of Huck Finn, Huck is mistaken for Tom, who proceeds, if I remember correctly, to subject Jim to all kinds of abusive and needless hijinks. Alter egos, doubles, repressed personae ... that's where the action is ! :) // To me, Twain's attraction to doubling creates ambiguities that destabilize the ostensible tone of each book. Consider too the idea that two of these books were supposedly written for "young adults." Twain: can't trust him at all, which is one reason why he's so great.

(view spoiler)[ I love it and think it so funny, how when Edward told everyone that he was the King, nobody believed him, thought him mad, but when he told the children, they immediately believed him and didn't even question him! (hide spoiler)]

Emma wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

😄Emma, you're silly.🤗
How did you like the book?
You finished it rather quickly.

Meg wrote: "This is probably my favorite Mark Twain book! I think I've read it at least 3 times. In my opinion it's just a really interesting story and doesn't seem to have too much of Twain's characteristic s..."

Hi Meg,
This is my first read and I must say, I am enjoying
Mr. Twain's historical fiction.

Marie wrote: "I've actually never read any Twain. I may have attempted Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn on my own in the middle school years but without any direction or context I gave up. I am looking forward to dipping my..."

Hi Marie,
We glad you joined in this month's read.
I read Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn in my youth
and enjoyed the adventures. Perhaps we can
revisit these two novels and receive feedback
regarding direction and content from our
members. Reacquainting yourself with Mr.
Twain's work, how are you getting along?

Allyson wrote: "Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂"

Greetings Allyson,
Methinks thou hast begun thine own book.
What say you, fair maiden, of thy beloved
author's work?

Ruth wrote: "Emma wrote: "[spoilers removed]"

😄Emma, you're silly.🤗
How did you like the book?
You finished it rather quickly."

😂
I absolutely loved the book! Yeah, I guess I did...🙈😂 I could read it again this month (if I had time), I loved it so much!

Werner wrote: "I read this book out loud to my wife back in the mid-80s, and we both liked it, though I've never gotten around to reviewing it. (As a kid, I'd read a child's adapted version of it, but I've never ..."

Hi Werner,
This is interesting. You mentioned
"The premise of look-alike characters temporarily
switching lives has often been borrowed by modern
book writers..."
What other books have you read, pre-dating Mark
Twain, that wrote of this premise?

Doreen wrote: "Have to admit I cheated and started the book early but I have so many going at once it will probably take me the most of the month to finish it. lol"

Hi Doreen,
I noticed your cracking open the book early.
Some of your books have caught my eye.
You are funny. 😄 Have you read this book
before?

Hmmm! I'm not sure that there are any that pre-date Twain; he seems to be the original launcher of the idea. But there are quite a few modern books that pick up on the idea (often with the added premise of switching bodies, to explain how the characters can step into each others' identities). Personally, I haven't read any of them myself; but Freaky Friday by Mary Rodgers is one of the best known. Some others are listed here: https://www.harpercollins.com/blogs/h... .

In my post above, I mentioned films as well as books, and my own experience with the theme has been through that medium. Some that I've watched are the Freaky Friday adaptation (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322330/ ); A Saintly Switch (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164683/ ); Switched for Christmas (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7038606/ ); and It Takes Two (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113442/ ).

Just checking in to keep myself accountable. I'm only to Chapter 13 but I have really been enjoying it. I like that it is historical fiction and I am enjoying Twain's storytelling. I am listening to the audiobook and I decided to read the young readers version to my daughter so we could do a literature study on it this month (homeschoolers here). We started her version today and if it was up to her, we would have read it all today. We usually read the actual classic but as I had not read Twain myself I chose this young reader's route. Of course it is missing the beautiful writing but I can certainly see her reading/listening to the original when she is a bit older.

Marie wrote: "Just checking in to keep myself accountable. I'm only to Chapter 13 but I have really been enjoying it. I like that it is historical fiction and I am enjoying Twain's storytelling. I am listening t..."

I'm glad you're enjoying it, Marie and that's wonderful that your daughter is getting to read it as well. 😊

When reading historical fiction, I really enjoy diving into the geographical history. I've been to London a couple of times in the last few years so I wanted to see where this "awful" area is that Tom Canty was living in. Twain's fictional Offal Court appears to be located off of Pudding Lane, in the "ancient" City of London (there are ruins from the Roman Era). This area in modern day is actually very nice as it is not far from the Bank of England. Pudding Lane itself would contain the bakery that started the Great Fire almost 120 years after The Prince and the Pauper was set. The pudding of Pudding Lane refers to the parts the butchers would need to dispose of, also known as offal. I love that Twain was able to tie it into an actual location and that the name Offal Court is so appropriate just from the sound of it. It was an "awful" place to live I imagine and as a modern reader, knowing that the Great Fire would start there just compounds the fact that Tom was born into very unfortunate circumstances compared to Edward.

Ruth wrote: "Allyson wrote: "Has any of thou started this book? If so, art thou enjoying it? I hope thou art for I am dearly, especially the old English. 😂😂😂"

Greetings Allyson,
Methinks thou hast begun thine ..."

😂 I say it is lovely indeed but I can only take so much of it at a time! 😜 I don't mind old English but if I read too much of it I start speaking that way. 😂 Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn were not written in this way, just saying.

Allyson wrote: "😂 I say it is lovely indeed but I can only take so much of it at a time! 😜 I don't mind old English but if I read too much of it I start speaking that way. 😂 Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn were not written in this way, just saying"

That's because Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn weren't set in the 16th century! 😜😂

Meg wrote: "Allyson wrote: "😂 I say it is lovely indeed but I can only take so much of it at a time! 😜 I don't mind old English but if I read too much of it I start speaking that way. 😂 Tom Sawyer and Hucklebe..."

Lol!!! 😂😂 True, true. Very true. 😜 Nevertheless, I did enjoy them more.

This is interesting. You mentioned
"The premise of look-alike characters temporarily
switching lives has often been borrowed by modern
book writers..."
What other books have you read, pre-dating Mark
Twain, that wrote of this premise?

1859/Tale of Two Cities: Sidney Carton and Charles Darnay ... Dickens pulls off that switch-around really well. Also great (and in line with the Double theme I mentioned earlier) is Poe's "William Wilson" (1839). The more or less total "exchanging" of lives for an extended period does seem to be more rare.

reply | flag *

Steven wrote: "1859/Tale of Two Cities: Sidney Carton and Charles Darnay ... Dickens pulls off that switch-around really well. Also great (and in line...

That's very interesting, Steven! A Tale of Two Cities is one of my all-time favorites.