English Mysteries Club discussion

Here is the thread for the continuing Buddy Read, of all the Miss Marple stories by Agatha Christie, including novels and short stories.

France-Andrée who hosts the Agatha Christie thread, is also leading these reads. She would like to begin this in January, so please allow her to comment next with the order and frequency of the reads. Thanks :)

Miss Jane Marple is one of Agatha Christie’s beloved characters. She is an unmarried older lady (“spinster” was used at that time) who lives in the village of St. Mary Mead and loves to detect. I will not go too much in the details of her life for now since we are at the beginning of the series and I do not know if I would spoil new readers, I will comment on the background as we learn things with the books and short stories.

These are the appearances of Miss Marple:

The Murder at the Vicarage (1930, Novel) - January 2021

The Thirteen Problems (1932 short story collection featuring Miss Marple, also published as The Tuesday Club Murders these stories predate The Murder at the Vicarage, but we will go by order of publication) - February 2021

Miss Marple Tells a Story: A Short Story included in The Regatta Mystery and Other Stories (1939, Collection)* also in Miss Marple's Final Cases - March 2021

The Body in the Library (1942, Novel) - April 2021

The Moving Finger (1943, Novel) - May 2021

A Murder Is Announced (1950, Novel) - June 2021

Three Blind Mice and Other Stories (1950, Collection) North American version, shorts included in Miss Marple's Final Cases - March 2021

They Do It with Mirrors (1952, Novel) - also published as Murder With Mirrors - July 2021

A Pocket Full of Rye(1953, Novel) - August 2021

4:50 from Paddington (1957, Novel) - also published as What Mrs. McGillicuddy Saw! - September 2021

Greenshaw's Folly: A Short Story (1960, one short story included in a collection with a Poirot) - We will read just before Miss Marple's Final Cases. - March 2021

Double Sin and Other Stories (1961, Collection)* - March 2021

The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side (1962, Novel) - October 2021

A Caribbean Mystery (1964, Novel) - November 2021

At Bertram's Hotel (1965, Novel) - December 2021

Nemesis (1971, Novel) - January 2022

Sleeping Murder (1976, Novel) - February 2022

Miss Marple's Final Cases (posthumous publication) - March 2021

This list if per Wikipedia (with some of my comments), if there is errors please let me know and I will edit this post.)

*I’ve learned through Adrian that a collection in this list means from the author and not a collection for the character. I have to say that I have Miss Marple: The Complete Short Stories so I never had to think about when and where they came from.

We will be starting with The Murder at the Vicarage this January (2021). I would continue with a book a month, but this is up to you too.

I love Miss Marple. Looking forward to reading some of these. Can anyone join in?

Thank you so much France-Andrée! It is so very useful to have the complete list - and with links - at the begining of the thread :)

It accords with the Goodreads series list too. I'll link to that list, as there is a useful function for those who (like me!) may join in an odd one here and there. It tells you which stories have spoilers for others! So it will say "don't read this one before that one".

LINK HERE

I'm looking forward to this, and with around 15 books, it's doable in less than a year and a half, for those who want to read the entire canon :)

NB. This comment has been edited, as France-Andrée has altered the reading order for this challenge, and it no longer concurs with the GR list.

This is great, thank you Bionic Jean and France-Andrée!

Will we be reading one a month?

Definitely in for this - I’ve read all the novels before but not all the short stories (or not in these collections - they may have appeared in other collection series but I am hoping for a missed gem!). Will be interesting to read them in publication date to see the progression.

Thanks for organising it!

Yes, Ruth, everyone can join in. In buddy reads, I’ve found that “the more, the merrier” does apply so welcome.

Emilia, we will be reading one a month, there’s one short story that we will join to a collection because it’s an “orphan”, but it’s not for the coming months so I’ll speak of it again.

Thanks Jean, I didn’t even think to go to the list on Goodreads! I’m glad both list agreed.

Mand, I hope for you that there is a little surprise out there! I hope to have forgotten enough to be surprised here and there.

I just read that Amazon is having a special on a Kindle book with the first 3 books of Miss Marple for $2.99.

I just saw that, Susan, thank you for the information.

I've put this first read in the Miss Marple buddy readalong on our home page :)

Murder at the Vicarage

The story takes place in St. Mary Mead and there’s a murder at the vicarage... what a spoiler! Though seriously the synopsis on Goodreads gives away the victim so maybe one to skip.

I’ve chosen to listen to this one narrated by Joan Hickson (1906-1998), she was the first actress I saw in the role maybe my choice is a little nostalgic. In what form are you reading this book?

I've just started to read this. I'm listening to this on audiobook as well, read by Richard E. Grant.

Me too! I usually read on my tablet, but now I am starting to use audiobooks.

Will be jumping in on this. Have the book in my Christie collection, so it will be easy.

Hi France-Andrée

I hope you don't mind me commenting on your list

The Regatta Mystery and Other Stories
This is seen as a collection of Poirot short stories, as there is only one Miss Marple story, (Miss Marple Tells a Story) and that is included in Miss Marple's Final Cases

Three Blind Mice and Other Stories is a US only publication and includes 4 Miss Marple stories which are in Miss Marple's Final Cases

Double Sin and Other Stories - this only features two Miss Marple stories - Greenshaw’s Folly ( also from the collection The Adventure of the Christmas Pudding) which we are due to read this month anyway, and Sanctuary which is also in Miss Marple's Final Cases

I hope this is helpful

Thank you, Adrian. I will adjust our goals when we come to the collections then. I’ll be editing the first post later.

I wonder now how the short stories should be read. When they were first published in their different collection or in bulk at the end. I would prefer when they were written even if it means reading one just before or after a novel. Let me know if that would work for you guys.


There’s also another way of reading Miss Marple and that is chronological order of her life which would shuffle some of our reads, but that could be fun too.

France-Andrée wrote: "I wonder now how the short stories should be read. When they were first published in their different collection or in bulk at the end. I would prefer when they were written even if it means reading one just before or after a novel. Let me know if that would work for you guys."

Personally, it makes no difference to me. I think chronological in order of publication is easier, but there is merit to both ways.

France-Andrée wrote: "I wonder now how the short stories should be read. When they were first published in their different collection or in bulk at the end. I would prefer when they were written even if it means reading..."

If we read

The Tuesday Club Murders aka The Thirteen Problems
Greenshaw's Folly: A Short Story &
Miss Marple's Final Cases

We will catch all of young Jane's short stories

I like that idea, Adrian, that’s where my instinct was going and that would be February and March.

Ok. Sounds perfect for me!. I'm looking forward to reading those short stories because I haven't read all of them yet.

Interesting discussion. I have several books of Christie's short stories, so should be able to find these easily.

France-Andrée wrote: "I like that idea, Adrian, that’s where my instinct was going and that would be February and March."

Excellent France-Andrée, I'll be starting "Vicarage" very soon

Hi, I just got this at my library so I can join in the reading.

France-Andre, I didn’t know Joan Hickson read for Miss Marple as well as portrayed her. I loved her as Miss Marple..got the whole set on DVD

Nancy wrote: "Hi, I just got this at my library so I can join in the reading.

France-Andre, I didn’t know Joan Hickson read for Miss Marple as well as portrayed her. I loved her as Miss Marple..got the whole s..."

Glad you got your hands on a copy, Nancy! I have to admit that I really enjoyed reading this one again. I think I like Miss Marple more in this book than in some of the later books. I think I'm discovering more of the nuances in the story.

Glad for you Nancy! What I’m enjoying in this one (I am taking it slow) is how people describe Miss Marple and seeing our narrator, the vicar, change his mind slowly about her. (view spoiler)[First, he sees her as the usual gossipy old woman and then he realizes how much she sees and how analytical her mind is. (hide spoiler)]

Did you know? There is two St. Mary Mead in Agatha Christie. There is the one we love with Miss Marple in Downshire (sometimes called Radfordshire) and there’s one in Kent described in The Mystery of the Blue Train! (Information from Agatha Christie’s Miss Marple: The Life and Times of Miss Jane Marple by Anne Hart) I wonder if AC just loved the name so much that she recycled it, is it possible to have two villages with exactly the same? Here we have often the same beginning like St-Jean but then the end is different like St-Jean-Port-Joli (St. John of the beautiful port) or St-Jean-sur-le-Richelieu (St. John on the Richelieu, the Richelieu is an immense lake). What do you think?

France-Andrée wrote: "Glad for you Nancy! What I’m enjoying in this one (I am taking it slow) is how people describe Miss Marple and seeing our narrator, the vicar, change his mind slowly about her. [spoilers removed]

..."

No, I did not know that. I do think it is possible to have two villages with the same name. Downshire and Kent are counties are they not? I think it is possible that Agatha loved the name and did use it again for Miss Marple’s hometown.

Agatha Christie’s Miss Marple sounds like an interesting book. Thank you for the information France-Andre.

I wonder if her autobiography tells why she used the name for two different villages?

Downshire is not a real county in England, but Kent is. St. Mary Mead seems to be entirely made up as well (as in there isn't a real one anywhere in England), so it might be that Kent, Radfordshire (also fictional) and Downshire are just possible locations for the same village?

In Gloucestershire there are three villages all called Woodmancote! One is near Cheltenham, one is near Cirencester and the third is near Dursley.

It's quite common in England to have villages of the same name, some quite close to each other and others further away.

Emilia wrote: "Downshire is not a real county in England, but Kent is. St. Mary Mead seems to be entirely made up as well (as in there isn't a real one anywhere in England), so it might be that Kent, Radfordshire..."

My understanding is that Radfordshire/Downshire is set SW of London around (real) Hampshire /Dorset whereas Kent is SE of London.

Following on with the duplicate name theme. Here in England (and UK) it is very common, so for example we have over 20 Nethertons/Nethertowns in England alone.

Ruth: thank you, that sounds confusing!

Emilia: By the description, the two AC villages cannot be the same, but Ruth proved to us that it is possible to have the situation in real life... I wonder what a GPS does with that!

Nancy: It sounds like a good book that I will go back to after our reads, I read two paragraphs and I got spoiled for The Murder at the Vicarage... I remember the murderer so I thought I was “safe”, but I had forgotten a subplot! It was my Christmas gift to myself but I’ll wait.

Oh, wow! 20 towns with the same names! Well, we have a London in Ontario; we have lots of names from the UK and France because of the settlers, but most importantly we have first nations name like... ummm, Canada?!

Another new fact for me, Agatha Christie was inspired to create Miss Marple because she wanted a character similar to Caroline Shepard of The Murder of Roger Ackroyd (per Agatha Christie’s Complete Secret Notebooks: Stories and Secrets of Murder in the Making). I find Caroline much harsher, but I do see similarities too.

France-Andrée wrote: "Another new fact for me, Agatha Christie was inspired to create Miss Marple because she wanted a character similar to Caroline Shepard of The Murder of Roger Ackroyd (per [book:Agatha ..."

That's so interesting, France-Andrée! I think the idea of an old spinster who uses her vast experience and acute observation to solve murder mysteries was absolutely brilliant of AC.

I have just finished Murder at the Vicarage. I enjoyed it very much - an absolute classic and one you can safely re-read even if you already know who'd dunnit. This is a quality, I feel, few mystery books share.

A couple of things I noticed in this reading:
- as always, the psychology of the people involved in the intrigue is fascinating and so well observed (view spoiler)[I particularly enjoyed Miss Marple describing the inspector as being like the shoe saleswoman who, when you tell her the shoes is pinching keeps going on about the leather (hide spoiler)]
- I think using the vicar as a narrator was really clever and an effective way to introduce the village and all its characters and intrigue
- another thing about the vicar (view spoiler)[I think a lot of authors would have been tempted to make the narrator somewhat slow in his comprehension to be a foil for the brilliance of the real detective, but Rev. Clement is actually quite an astute observer himself, figures things out by himself, and is also quite quick to recognize Miss Marple's genius. In that way, Christie makes Marple appear even cleverer, than if Rev. Clement were a little stupid or slow. (hide spoiler)]
- Christie really makes the village come alive. It feels so full of characters and full of little dramas, even though she doesn't go into half of them - they're just there to make the village come to life.
- One final thought about the ending (view spoiler)[One thing I noticed in a lot of mystery books is that discovering the murderer is usually the main event, discovering proof is usually an afterthought. Very often (and Christie does this too) the detective confronts the culprit and they betray themselves by attacking Poirot or saying something stupid. Here I thought it was rather well done, and somewhat more realistic. I liked the set up with the doctor, who has already expressed humanitarian views about hangings, and who might therefore reasonably want to warn Lawrence. And Lawrence reacted realistically, and thereby incriminated himself in a way that a real criminal very well might. (hide spoiler)]

I look forward to reading what you all thought :)

I finished it yesterday, you are right Emilia rereading it is fun , when I read a book again I focus on different things. Like here, I can see how the culprit is acting and if it makes sense with the ending.

I like how Miss Marple describes herself as a “student of human nature”, she comes to her conclusions because of it... of the little things that elucidate bigger ones. (view spoiler)[like when Redding and Anne are acting normal when they are supposed to have said goodbye and that makes Miss Marple suspicious. (hide spoiler)]

I also like the village life of St. Mary Mead. I don’t remember if the characters from this book crop up again in the other stories because I’m mixing it in my head with the last television series, but I’m looking forward to rediscovering this.

I think the ending is very satisfying, ties some loose ends though maybe (view spoiler)[the Lettice angle with Mrs. Lestrange being her mother (hide spoiler)] is a bit of a stretch but it doesn’t feel impossible.

I don’t remember Raymond West (view spoiler)[attitude being that annoying so that might be how he treats the vicar then again maybe he changes later on or we get narrators that don’t represent him the same way. (hide spoiler)]

What surprised me is that this was published in 1930 and I always see Miss Marple in the 1950s, I think that has to do with the television portrayal or having a false memory.

France-Andrée wrote: "What surprised me is that this was published in 1930 and I always see Miss Marple in the 1950s, I think that has to do with the television portrayal or having a false memory."

I just re-watched the Joan Hickson adaptation of this novel and you're right it's set in the 1950s - at least I think it is, judging by the fashions and the fact that one of the characters mentions someone landing at Normandy. It's a great adaptation though, quite close to the book in other respects.

France-Andrée wrote: "I like how Miss Marple describes herself as a “student of human nature”, she comes to her conclusions because of it... of the little things that elucidate bigger ones. (view spoiler)."

Oh yes that was very good! It's those little things I particularly enjoy about Christie, because she really notices the small but telling things about human behaviour.

France-Andrée wrote: "I also like the village life of St. Mary Mead. I don’t remember if the characters from this book crop up again in the other stories because I’m mixing it in my head with the last television series, but I’m looking forward to rediscovering this."

In terms of characters who recur later, according to Wikipedia (my own memory is too poor to be relied on in matters such as this): (view spoiler)[The Vicar and his wife, Leonard and Griselda Clement, who made their first appearance in this novel, continue to show up in Miss Marple stories. Notably, they feature in The Body in the Library (1942) along with Slack and Melchett, and 4.50 from Paddington (1957). (hide spoiler)]

Thank you, Emilia, I did think (view spoiler)[that vicar and his wife did (hide spoiler)], but didn’t know for sure.

I haven´t finish it yet. I agree with yours comments about the village, yes, it seems to be full of life; and the idea of an old and quiet lady being a detective, is great because it is unexpected!
Like Emilia, I am going to finish the book first, and watch the adaptation later!

I was quite surprised by the reveal and thought it came very naturally and made perfect sense. I had forgotten that that is what is different from Poirot. Also I had forgotten that Jane's nephew Raymond West was introduced in the series this early. I have wondered why he was in the book — other than to represent Miss Marple's family.

And I always thought that the genius in Christie's Miss Marple — and a bit too with Poirot — is the exploration of the psychology of human nature, how would people act in certain situations. When what they did didn't match the situation. Christie was so interested in that aspects of humans that she developed it further in her stories written under the pen name Mary Westmacott.

Re Rev Leonard and Griselda Clement (view spoiler)[, he doesn't actually appear in 4:50 from Paddington, although Griselda, and his 2nd son (also Leonard) do appear.
She also is mentioned in The Mirror Crack'd from Side to Side as now widowed and living away from St Mary Mead,
And again in the Short story The Case of the Perfect Maid - a Miss Marple Short Story (hide spoiler)]
Wikipedia can't always be right 😊

Thank you, Adrian, though (view spoiler)[I’m sad he dies, I didn’t remember that or read it so far apart that I did realize, it’s the first time that I do it chronologically. (hide spoiler)]

I think Raymond appeared even earlier in the short stories published before this book but that we will read next month.

I’ve updated the first post with what we are reading in February and March. February will be The Thirteen Problems and March the short Greenshaw's Folly - a Miss Marple Short Story and Miss Marple's Final Cases.

Thank you Adrian - good memory! Like France-Andrée, I'd never read these chronologically before, so I never paid attention to such details as this. It will be interesting to trace familiar names/faces and see how they progress throughout these stories :)

Emilia wrote: "Thank you Adrian - good memory! Like France-Andrée, I'd never read these chronologically before, so I never paid attention to such details as this. It will be interesting to trace familiar names/fa..."

Believe me Emilia, it has taken me many years of reading and an Agatha "Who's Who" to know so much ha ha

France-Andrée wrote: "I’ve updated the first post with what we are reading in February and March. February will be The Thirteen Problems and March the short [book:Greenshaw's Folly - a Miss Marple Short Sto..."

Excellent France-André, thanks for the new list 😊

France-Andrée wrote: "Oh, wow! 20 towns with the same names! Well, we have a London in Ontario; we have lots of names from the UK and France because of the settlers, but most importantly we have first nations name like...."

How about Tsawwassen? It is south of Vancouver and where you catch the ferry to the Island (but not during the pandemic please)

I have to say I don’t know how pronounced that, Dorothy. I’m pretty sure it’s unique though.