The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Week 6, one more to go!

Okay, so now we have Basil intruding upon the ladies’ vacation. Back in New York, he told her all his views, and now he’s asked Verena to marry him. Mr. Burrage also still wants to marry Verena.

Washington Square is mentioned in this section. The James family lived there in the 1840s and 1850s.

How has the Civil War shaped Basil’s character?

What are Basil’s views that he is so eager to publish?

What do you think Verena wants to do? Where do you think she would be happiest?

Does Basil truly love her?

What do you think about the events of these chapters?

Next week we will read the last six chapters of the book. What are your predictions for our characters?

Also, next week I'll be posting some of the interesting points from the introduction that was in the edition I read, because I found them particularly insightful.

I’ve been feeling rather out of touch with the social norms of this period. Characters react very strongly to words and actions that seem relatively mild to me. That last scene in chapter 36 particularly! Both Verena and Olive sound hysterical (Olive with marginally more reason in my view). Is that a comment on the behavioral styles of the era or on James’s notions about women?

Verena certainly appears to be leaning toward Basil over Mr. Burrage. Part of that may be that the Burrages’ lifestyle is too far removed from her experience: there was that telling comment about how she preferred walking at will in Central Park over riding through it in a carriage, looking down on others. She likes the freedom she thinks she has with Basil to say and do whatever she likes, and is disproportionately upset when he baldly states values so alien to her own. There have been signals throughout of her attraction to him, but after the visit to Central Park it was very clear he would always think of her as an inferior—the Angel of the Hearth dilemma—and she has to confront a reality she had been hoping wasn’t true.

What baffled me at the end of this section was why Basil imagines he can marry on the strength of selling one article! Where did all his scruples go? I really loathe him.

Olive’s extreme reaction to the Basil-Verena romance makes a certain amount of sense to me. She has given over her own life to building up Verena into a capable public figure in service to a cause that has all her passion, and Verena in marrying Basil would be surrendering the cause to its most steadfast enemy. Olive is what she believes in, so this romance represents both betrayal and erasure. This was shown pretty clearly in her agonizing over whether to agree to Mrs. Burrage’s proposition—she would be losing Verena but not the cause to the Burrages, but with Basil she would lose both.

My brief takes on a few of your questions:
Verena thinks she would be happier with Basil but I don’t think she’d be happy with either him or Burrage.
Basil love Verena? Basil loves only Basil. He wants to acquire Verena like a comfy pair of slippers.
The Civil War has left Basil an angry, bitter, and humiliated man. His inability to regard a woman as an equal betrays the damaged self-esteem and bravado of a humiliated person. He will always have a vested interest in looking down on Verena. James shows this in the exultation Basil feels whenever Verena shows any sign of uncertainty or weakness.

'Stoic' is used a couple of times to label Basil and 'cynic' at least once. I'm not sure how exactly the terms are employed but I suspect his philosophy is rather like his contemporary Ambose Biece. Having spent my professional career writing about great satirists such as Juvenal and Swift, I find Basil a familiar type. James never gives us a sample of Basil's writing, but I can easily imagine him providing aphorisms like Bierce's Devil's Dictionary, like 'A penny saved is a penny to squander'.

Olive seems like the prioress of her own Unitarian women's religious order, which would explain why she is so firm that Verena must renounce marriage, as if men represented Olive's version of the world, the flesh, and the devil. I don't think it's Olive's beliefs that James satiriized, but the fanaticism with which she holds them.

So Varena finds herself choosing between a woman of principle but without common sense and a common-sensical man perhaps lacking principle.

Interesting context as usual, Bill! You’re right, Basil does seem to be cast in the satirical mold, and I wonder if James is making some sort of sly comment about an era in which Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens was being published everywhere, but Basil has so much difficulty getting published. Maybe James is seeing him as a budget Twain, taking a cynical pose while lacking the depth of wit and insight? I can imagine James hating Twain at the best of times.

It’s very believable to me that a passionate idealist like Olive would have a visceral reaction of disgust toward someone like Basil who thinks it’s clever to mock everything. I react the same way to knee-jerk cynics. If they hold nothing sacred, how can one expect them to behave ethically toward others in any situation?

Basil's extreme views of masculinity and femininity and the place of each are disturbingly close to some modern online sentiments. His visit to the shore is basically stalking - he wasn't invited.

I think what is between Basil and Verena is sexual attraction. That wasn't there with Burrage and Verena. When we read about the life of Dickens, I was struck by the idea that Dickens married early because he didn't like the idea of going to prostitutes. Basil also seems like he would be above that, but he is still a young man. Basil's "love" for Verena is attraction to her face, body and personality but without respect for any of her interests or wishes.

I don't remember if I posted this in any of the earlier chapters, but I have known people like Verena, generally women, who change their views and preferences depending on who they are with. For instance, one young woman I know went from conservative to liberal politics when she switched boyfriends. Or someone who isn't that interested in religion or politics will go along with the views of the stronger-minded spouse. It seems that Verena's original entry into speaking on women's rights came about because her father figured it would sell. Then of course she comes under the sway of Olive.

I was amused that James mentions Basil and Verena seeing all the busts and statues of famous men in Central Park. In 2020, with the 100-year anniversary of US women's suffrage approaching, a statue to commemorate it was authorized. Until then, there were allegorical figures of women and there was a stature of Mother Goose, but no actual women. (Controversy ensued when the first plan was for a statue of just Susan B Anthony & Elizabeth Cady Stanton. The sculptor ended up adding Sojourner Truth.)

Robin P wrote: "I was struck by the idea that Dickens married early because he didn't like the idea of going to prostitutes. Basil also seems like he would be above that, but he is still a young man."

Basil had a mistress at the beginning of the book, but I think she later married. I agree that the attraction between Verena and Basil is pretty much carnal. If he loved her he wouldn't mock her like that or want to "strike her dumb."

Robin P wrote: "I think what is between Basil and Verena is sexual attraction. That wasn't there with Burrage and Verena. . . .

"I don't remember if I posted this in any of the earlier chapters, but I have known people like Verena, generally women, who change their views and preferences depending on who they are with. For instance, one young woman I know went from conservative to liberal politics when she switched boyfriends. Or someone who isn't that interested in religion or politics will go along with the views of the stronger-minded spouse. It seems that Verena's original entry into speaking on women's rights came about because her father figured it would sell. Then of course she comes under the sway of Olive."

I agree that Verena and Basil are attracted to each other. In this portion of the reading, I was struck by seeing and naming in two instances, occurring simultaneously. Mrs. Burrage--at last!--clearly sees and names Olive's power in her relationship with Verena. But Basil also sees and names Verena's fundamental motivation, the motivation to please those around her. He does so in an insulting way, and within the very unfortunate context of expressing his "views," but still--he sees Verena, he calls what he sees, and he is right about her. At this moment, it's as though he knows her better than she knows herself, and I suspect this is what upsets her so much. A really basic truth about herself--a thing which sets her operationally apart from others, and which up to now she may never have even considered--is presented to her on a platter by the devil himself. Of course she's shaken . . . and magnetized, and compelled.

Interestingly, I found myself with Verena in that as a reader, it took Basil's explanation in chapter 34 for me to achieve clarity about her motivation. In retrospect the motivation is so obvious; but until Basil explained it to me in a straightforward way, I just continued to feel baffled by Verena's character.

Her decision to respond to Basil by running away from the Burrages as well was so distressing that I had to put the book down for awhile.

Lori wrote: "Mr. Burrage also still wants to marry Verena."

He did at the end of book two, but time seems to have elapsed between the end of book two and the start of book three. Are the Burrages still in the picture, or was that bridge burned when Verena chose to flee New York City?

Abigail wrote: "My brief takes on a few of your questions:."

It's funny how one's experience affects how one reads things. When I read the above sentence of Abigail's, as a lawyer, I read brief as a noun rather than an adjective. So I thought " Mmm, funny that she's calling what she is writing a brief. And this brief she's written, 'takes on' Lori's questions." Then I figured it out.

Anyway, here's my own 'brief takes:'
1. James draws Basil as outwardly more charming, able to talk amongst women whose views on life he totally opposes. James portrays Olive as fairly dour and singular minded and seemingly intolerant of people whose views she opposes. While Olive is clearly controlling, Basil presents Verena with the facade of tolerance. This tolerance would end with marriage, In this section Basil reveals that, in his view of male/female relations, Verena's role should be to make Basil's life better.
2. I think it's Basil's outward charm and ability to talk with the other feminist women while being a controlling antifeminist that would make Abigail 'loathe' him. He is a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Whereas Olive, as unlikable as she is to me, isn't trying to hide anything, unless it's any underlying romantic feelings for Verena, which she would understandably repress.
3. I don't know who Verena would be happy with. Nobody here. She is sexually attracted to Basil, as women often are to the 'bad boy' that is no good for them. Yet she would be happy with Basil only if she would be happy making him successful while subjugating her career to his.
Life with Olive might be professionally satisfactory but would not satisfy her romantic and sexual interests which she seems to have toward males.
Life with Burridge would have the best outcome but she would have to become physically attracted to him, Otherwise it would be more similar to life with Olive, except with Burridge, Verena might hold the reins.
Verena is young, she needs to wait until she meets the right man. I hope it ends with Verena leaving Olive's 'care' while also avoiding Basil's clutches.

Good point, Verena is young and very inexperienced since she has been directed by others so far. But most well-off young women at the time had very little life experience before getting married.

The fact that Verena is stopped by Basil's out-and-out repudiation of everything she stands for, yet she is still attracted to him reminded me of Howards End. There the older sister is much like Olive, sure she knows what is best for everyone, but the younger sister is swayed by charismatic personalities with other views.

Robin, if you bring up any more Forster novels I'll get confused on which discussion I'm in. As I said over in The Longest Journey threads:
"I associate James and Forster together as two well-thought-of authors that are not always smooth reads, yet I read them anyway. Funny that I'm reading both at this time."
Seriously, though, I do see a comparison of Olive and Verena to Howard End's Margaret and Helen.

Also, I smile when I think of Bill's "Unitarian women's religious order" as I let my imagination go. Yes, I can visualize Olive as the prioress.

Yes, I've read a few examples of James heroines choosing men who weren't quite right for them (I also typed "Forster" first and had to change it!).

Brian wrote: "Robin, if you bring up any more Forster novels I'll get confused on which discussion I'm in. As I said over in The Longest Journey threads:
"I associate James and Forster together as two well-thou..."

As a Unitarian, I found that amusing. It's true that many of the suffragists were Unitarians (Anthony, Stanton, Julia Ward Howe, Lydia Maria Child and others). Unitarians were generally abolitionists and were involved in the 20th-century civil rights campaign.

No one, or hardly anyone, has mentioned that Basil, like Verena, is also young and inexperienced in life. Why should he be any more or less perceptive than Verena? His views and opinions are the result of his narrow, extremely conservative southern upbringing. Verena is shocked to learn about Basil’s lack of confidence regarding himself and his future career. Verena wants Basil to succeed, even if it means writing articles that criticise the movement she is so vocal about. I am still wavering as regards to whether Basil can change or not but it seems that Verena doesn’t want him to change.

Basil is the only one of the multitudes fawning around her that has been honest with Verena. In other words, she knows he is right when he tells he her that her life is a sham. Is it better to go through life living a lie or to be honest with yourself? No wonder she prefers the earthy honesty of walking through the park with him than sitting aloof in a carriage with Burrage or standing aloof on a stage with Olive looking on and applauding. During that walk in Central Park they both revealed a glimmer of their true selves and what might be if only barriers could be broken down.

‘Once Verena was fairly launched the spirit of the day took possession of her; she was glad to have come, she forgot about Olive, enjoyed the sense of wandering in the great city with a remarkable young man who would take beautiful care of her, while no one else in the world knew where she was. It was very different from her drive yesterday with Mr. Burrage, but it was more free, more intense, more full of amusing incident and opportunity.’

Verena still won’t acknowledge to Olive that she is in love with Basil and is fighting against that admission even to herself. But isn’t it inevitable that she will come to accept it? Her situation reminds me a little of the last (unfinished) novel of Wilkie Collins, ‘Blind Love,’ in which a bold, headstrong English women, Iris Henley falls in love with the Irish Lord Harry Norland, a criminal, political assassin.(At the time ‘Lord Harry’ was a colloquialism for the Devil)

It seems to be boiling down to a ‘head versus heart’ internal conflict for Verena, but the existing external forces, coming either from Olive or the Burrages could upset any union between Basil and Verena. Verena has never needed to ask Olive for help before in dissuading a man from marrying her, but her plea might galvanise Olive into drastic action, an action which could break Verena’s heart.

Trev wrote: "No one, or hardly anyone, has mentioned that Basil, like Verena, is also young and inexperienced in life. Why should he be any more or less perceptive than Verena? .."

Have they stated the ages of the characters? I had been visualizing Verena as 20ish and Basil closer to 30. I assumed this since Basil is a Civil War veteran and this takes place about 10 years after the war. I had thought of Olive and Mrs. Luna as older than Basil, mid- late 30s closing in on 40s.
So I did visualize Basil as older and more world-wise than Verena and expected him to be more perceptive. I'd appreciate the comments of any other reader who has a better handle on the characters' ages.

I also assumed Basil was nearly 30 (as you said, he would have to be, since he fought in the war). If I remember correctly, didn't it say somewhere that Basil thought of Olive as older but she was, in reality, a bit younger than him? I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly.

Lori wrote: "I also assumed Basil was nearly 30 (as you said, he would have to be, since he fought in the war). If I remember correctly, didn't it say somewhere that Basil thought of Olive as older but she was,..."

My meaning was not really about chronological age, but more to do with life experience. Yes he had fought in the civil war, but other than that, before coming to New York his only experience had been a cotton plantation in the South and all that that would imply. In the same way his chronological contemporary Newland Archer is a young man in ‘The Age of Innocence’ displaying his inexperience and inability to understand the machinations of New York society and the women closest to him.

Time and time again the author describes Basil as a ‘young’ man and I would agree with that description, probably immature would be even more appropriate. He is young and brash and has a lot to learn but his honesty (not forgetting his deep, dark eyes) has left Verena in a terrible dilemma. Verena, even though she is the youngest, seems to have more of a mature temperament than both Olive and Basil, but her usual ability to overcome any obstacle seems to have deserted her, at least for the time being.

My favourite ebook aid is the search feature. It’s true that James often refers to Basil as the ‘young man’ but we notice that expression is applied to others, including the impertinent Mr Pardon. Perhaps more a stylistic trick to avoid repetition. Homer’s hero is ‘swift footed Achilles’ even when speed is scarcely an issue.