A Court of Dreams and Nightmares discussion

I’ve shipped these 2 so hard since Silver Flames. Not a fan of the idea of the ‘3 brothers get the 3 sisters’… might just be because I love Gwyn a significant amount more than Elain, but I’ll have to come back with a list of reasons if others want to discuss :)

I absolutely agree, I don't like Elain, never did and it would absolutely be foregone to put her and Az together

I’m so torn. I do like Elaine, I love Gwen and I love Azriel. I just want them all to be happy BUT I want Lucien to be happy also. I know he messed up in the past but he’s been given such crappy cards. I guess in a perfect world Elaine would accept Lucien and Gwen and him would get together.

Lucien was such an interesting character in the first book, I was so sad SJM really forgot him and just made him in this self loathing lonely boy. He really deserve to be happy, and I'm sorry it may be an unpopular opinion but I don't think that he will find his happiness with Elaine. I really hope that in the next book we can see his growth (maybe finally discovering that Helion is his father) as well as the one of Az. Az really really deserves the world.

I'm in the minority of people that like Elain, but I definitely ship Gwynriel! They will be so cute and yes I don't want the 3 brothers 2 sisters thing - seems to cliche for SJM

I agree about him becoming a not so interesting character as the story went on. When he first came to the night court I thought he would really have some character development but just didn’t. Then he went off to be with Julian and really went down from there. I just hope he gets his time to shine and we finally understand the point of his character and his relationship with Elaine.

I agree as well that Lucien deserves so much happiness! And so does Azriel and Gwyn and Elaine! Honestly I think all of them deserve happiness. But I also agree that Lucien kind of got pushed to the side I feel. I hope that in the next book that he finds happiness and so does Az. Honestly as cute as I think Az and Elaine are I ship him with Gwyn a lot more. I think they are more compatible. But I also think it was rather wrong of Rhys to basically order Azriel not to pursue Elaine. That is not right and it’s not up to him. What about what Elaine wants? It feels like Rhys didn’t even take that into consideration. It is completely up to Elaine and Az on if they pursue a relationship or comfort or whatever they want.
I just felt like it was kind of out of character for Rhys to do something like that 🤔

I cheered when Rhys said that 😭

Yeah we’ll I totally understand his reasoning! I just thought the way he did it and what not was just odd. But I definitely understand why! I ship Azriel and Gwyn they’re so cute and compatible! I think they might be mates actually plus it would just be weird if all three brothers wound up with all three of the Archeron sisters and sooo cliche! Lol plus I honestly hope that Elaine winds up accepting Lucien as a mate. I remember it being said that sometimes the mate doesn’t accept the other and it isn’t pretty when it happens 🙁 so I hope Elaine accepts him or at least gives him a real chance ya know? I know she is healing but perhaps he can be the one to help her heal 🥺

Righ she isn’t even giving him a chance 😭

No chance whatsoever, I find Elaine's predicament capable of filling a whole book

I wonder what the other books will be able then? Has she mentioned anywhere what they will be about

Well we will get an Elain one she confirmed that and an Azriel one most likely so I’d say Elain is the finale?

Elaines is going to be hard to read. I don’t know it might give us a different perspective of her and we all might end up really liking her!

Honestly, I felt like Lucien’s character placement throughout the series has been awkward. Like you don’t know whether to pity him, tell him off, or ship him. He’s kinda been at the fringes of all the stories but never had a really significant role.

Legit. I do find myself pitying him, especially when he’s off with Jurian and comes back pouting saying they call themselves the band of exhiles. He comes off more annoying now than anything. I hope she gives him a bit of a redemption arc

I adore him 😭 literally he’s one of my top 5 favourite characters of this series. Honestly I think SJM might give him a book ?? There is a novella left so that might be his? I definitely know he will probably be the alternate POV in the Elain book wether they end up together or not their mating bind is a pivotal plot point. So I definitely think SJM has something planned for him. I just think it’s so sad he doesn’t fit in anywhere really :((((

@El In Oz I too cheered when Rhys ordered Az to stay away from Elain. May have been harsh but Az was set on pursuing Elain without thinking of the consequences. He needed to slow down. I love him sm and he’s been through so much and I’m hopeful he’ll end up happy(and I hope it’s with 🥰Gwyn🥰). And I love Lucien too. I think his character has so much potential when focused on and I hope SJM has plans to focus more on him. He’s not a pushover. He exudes very much MC energy and yeah he’s been more of a background character of late too. I’m hopeful he’ll find his true place. Still not sure where that will be because he still has no idea he’s Helion’s heir. I can’t wait to find out how his story develops.

As for Elain, I don’t hate her. I’m very neutral towards her because she’s been a side character for the entire series so I’ve never really cared(one thing I don’t like though is how she’s going about her mate situation that’s it). I’m curious to read more about her in depth. I remember when everyone hated Nesta(and I got why) and now everyone likes her. It’s a matter of what SJM chooses to write about the character that inspires love or hate from the fandom. As of now, I’m very neutral towards Tamlin. I feel he got what he deserved and that’s that(he can spend his days in his beast form stalking the Spring Court for all I care). I feel nothing for that character but if SJM decided to write a redemption arc, majority of the fandom will probably change their tune. That’s just how it is. If SJM redeems him, that’s great because well second chances right? But personally I think I’d still be neutral towards the character.

Honestly I’m scared she’ll make me like Elain and I’ll look back at me hating her 😭 I don’t see how she can redeem Elain for me bc she’s so boring to me but we’ll see
And I am all for a tamlin redemption arc. People can change, especially if you love for hundreds of years

@El in Oz I completely agree that their mating bond is important. Something has to come of it, it has to be addressed, like she wouldn’t bring it up for nothing. Then going into the cauldron was a HUGE moment in the story and them being mates was like a mic drop moment.

I really need Az to have a happy ending. SJM made me ship Az and Elaine, only to have Lucien be her mate so I think it’s only fair that Az should find his mate lol

@Shade right?? There definitely has to be something major involving that bond soon!

I guess we’ll find out eventually! I hate that we have to wait so long 😓😓 has anyone heard of any updates to the show??

Hmm I think they’re still in the process of writing. But I highly recommend following @acourtofmaas on Instagram they’re always up to date on that stuff!

Last updat was in November

I’m going to go follow them now!

Yes! They’re so cool

I don’t ship Az with Elaine. I think it would be a disaster actually. They may look good together and they’re both quiet, but other than that I don’t think they suit. Elaine has never seen him in his rage. Even Mor fears it, and Rhys is wary of it. Elaine will crumble the first time he shows that and since she is not his mate won’t be able to hide her fear. That will crush him. He needs someone who doesn’t fear his rage. I also think he is a lot darker then he appears to be.
I don’t know how Gwyn or his mate if it’s not her, will be able to accept/get over his feelings for Mor and Elaine. Or if he will even want to if he meets his mate.

I agree with your comment that they don’t really balance each other out and yeah I think Elain would clam up if she ever experiences Az’s rage.

@Euriel. I think the only reason Az seems to want Elain is because his brothers are with Feyra’s sisters and he is lonely. It really doesn’t seem like it has to do with Elain personally. Especially since her and Mor are so different. I can’t see Az putting up long term with someone who essentially does nothing and makes other people take care of her because she doesn’t/won’t do it herself. She would have no understanding of what he does and he couldn’t share that with her because she can’t handle it.

@Lisa I get that

@Lisa exactly!! Elain is useless and that's okay, not all characters have to be good and loved, the world doesn't work that way.
And Az is too much of a doer to be with someone who sits on her ass all day and garden.
Az is a effing warrior for crying out loud, he's a Shadowsinger, and one of the deadliest warriors of Priath
Honestly if SJM writes a "redemption arc" of some sorts about Elain I'll be mad.
Like leave us to hate her!

okay not hate, but still...you get the point

@Gaia This cracked me up. Lol ease up on Elain😂😂😂😂

I wouldn’t call Elain useless, honestly. I mean her personality is just someone who is soft and caring. She may be taken care of for most of the series but she also cares very much about her sisters and those around her. And for all of ACOWAR she was trying to and barely recovering from a horrible trauma of being shoved into a cauldron, her body completely changing against her will into something she grew up fearing, losing the man she was betrothed to and thought loved her… then some fae male is trying to make some claim on her because of a mate thing she didn’t ask for… all while getting crazy visions she never got before. Just to name a few things. Oh! And she’s later kidnapped by the cauldron/king of Hybern!

I’m my opinion, Elain is a fighter. She might not be outspoken or a warrior… but she is in so many different ways. She is resilient and still able to smile after the horrors she went through and still may go through.
I don’t think her and Az would be very compatible other than friendship. But I feel that if she saw his rage she would not or crumble orbreak!

Holly I agree entirely. I personally like Elain, and love the small ways she stands up for herself in ACOWAR onwards

Okay no I apologize, I was really mean towards Elain

@Euriel I'll cut her some slack
;)

Some people unnecessarily hate on Elain SO much
I don't understand it

@Gaia Herondale-Whitehorn everyone is entitled to there own opinion. I personally just don't understand, like why the extreme dislike? What's the reason?

No need to apologize everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I try not to get too upset because they’re characters in a book and everyone feels differently when they read them and has different experiences ya know? I mean I use to have a serious strong dislike for Nesta but then I grew to like her and understand her a little better. And then I read ACOSF and loved her ❤️ maybe Elain needs a book or a book with her POV for us to understand her more? 😊

Oh no I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but everytime that I read somewhere disliking a character or a book that I really love it really upsets me so I try to don't do that myself.
Beside that, my dislike for Elain I think it's probably related to the fact that I don't understand her.
I don't understand her character, her strength, her behavior, her presence in the life of every other character.
It's true initially I didn't like Nesta that much (until ACOSF) but at least I understood her...I am the older sister who had to protect her family, who is seen as the cold but strong and resilient one. I felt every ounce of hatred and unfairness that she felt towards her life.

someone*

I guess Elain is just so far from anyone with whom I would have a relationship with (friendship ecc), someone that I would find interesting idk

I agree. I think the main reason I despise Elain is because she’s meant to be the kindest sister but she won’t even speak to her own mate? Give him a chance? It’s been at least 2 years since she figured out and there is no excuse at this point to ignore him. I also think she doesn’t do enough. Sorry but she could’ve even use her powers to help that much besides 1 time in the war. I just really can’t stand her in conclusion

I agree that she should DEFINITELY give Lucian a chance. I mean I understand why she was hesitant at first with the trauma she went through but it’s been years now and she is recovering and smiling and gardening again…. Give the man a chance he might be just what she needs to heal more and to become who she was meant to be.

And yeah I understand I’ve had fans literally curse me out and threaten me before and the funny thing was one of them was because I didn’t like Tamlin lmao 🤣 I was like “have you even read the other books besides the first?” And when they said yes and how much they hated rhysand and loved Tamlin I thought they were trolling me but they were legit serious and I told them I respect their opinion but I’m not going to change mine. They then proceeded to direct message me and curse at me and threaten me and I’m like “dude he’s a book character!” 🤨😒 not that serious lol.
When I reported it on instagram though they said it didn’t violate the rules which I don’t get…

Okay that is so bizarre. What 😭😭

I guess i don't understand the strong dislike BECAUSE she is a book character... ok thats a lie. Some characters i feel so strongly about i cry just at the realization that they aren't real.
All the reasons you guys give, yeah i don't like Elain for them either and a feel as if she acts like shes been the most hurt? Even though the others went through so much more? Like she's being extra? But at the same time, the others are also to blame. Why do they coddle her so much? She wouldn't be so 'sensitive' and entitled if they didn't treat her like a child.

@Gaia i get what you mean when you say that you can't see yourself being friends with someone with her personality. To be honest i don't see someone like her actually surviving in the world. Be it imaginary or real.

When i said i didn't understand the hate -i didn't mean any of you. Just on other threads and platforms i have seen people tear others apart just because they didn't like Elain and the other did.

Annnnddddd....... when people start hating too much i feel like they gonna hurt the characters feelings, like they're a real person and we're talking smack about them (pathetic I KNOW)


I DO hate her for what she's doing to Lucien though

@☀︎El In Oz☀︎. I agree with everything you said about Elain. The Lucian mate thing, my issue isn’t so much that she’s not giving him a chance (she should), it’s that she can’t even be polite to him. It’s not like he’s pushing her to accept the bond, he pretty much leaves her alone and is respecting her space but she can’t even say hello to him.

Also, for me, a lot comes back to how she treated Feyre. Nesta was an utter bitch since chapter one, but I don’t think Elain is much better. She may not have been outright cruel as Nesta was but she never once stood up for her or told Nesta to stop. She said/did nothing while Feyre gets shredded by Nesta, but as soon as Nesta is mean to her, she cries about it. I don’t like the hypocrisy.