The Sword and Laser discussion

We have thoughts about why a rooster crows. Plus all the Nebula news and more awards. And we dig into our non-spoilery thoughts on Pandora’s Star.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/63638218
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http://swordandlaser.com/home/2022/3/...

I've added a list of almost 3 dozen names to the "Madness of Another Kind" thread of authors the group should read. It's still missing about a gazillion names but it's a good start.

On the subject of the group not having read any Douglas Adams.
Something I suggested in a previous March Madness pick was that we should read the HitchHiker's Guide Radio Scripts. Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy: The Original Radio Scripts
These are Douglas Adams' first works in his HitchHiker's "Universe", predating any novel by year or so. It is possible that while most people in the group will have read the novels, not everybody has heard the radio serial.
The radio version contains plot elements and characters that don't appear in any other Douglas Adams books. The book of scripts is also a extensively footnoted with details of how the show was originally made.

To listen to the "audiobook" version you would have to get hold of the Primary and Secondary phases of the radio production. That said there is a significant cut in the 3rd episode of the series to remove some Pink Floyd.

To add to the discussion on authors missed so far, I think I would like to dip my toe into one of the more niche subgenres of scifi and fantasy; LitRPG and the like... No idea what's good in those areas and if those are only selfpublished...

TRP wrote: "On the subject of the group not having read any Douglas Adams.
Something I suggested in a previous March Madness pick was that we should read the HitchHiker's Guide Radio Scripts. Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy: The Original Radio Scripts"

That was my introduction to Hitchhiker’s, and I’ve always thought it was superior to every other version, with the possible exception of the LP re-recording. I’m definitely going to have to read that book. I grew up at the very tail end of the era of radio plays and the last great hurrahs of that format featured almost all Science Fiction and Fantasy: Hitch-hiker’s Guide (https://rumble.com/ve4nb5-the-hitch-h...), Star Wars, Lord of the Rings (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpEbor...), Rod Sterling’s Zero Hour and CBS Radio Mystery Theatre (https://youtu.be/C3eV4s20das).

This crow seems convinced he's a tiny human.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9epn...

After listening to the episode (another excellent one for the books), I did some searching about the origin of Tom’s question, which opens a can of worms for all those early birds.

Why do roosters crow but crows not rooster?

So here’s what I’ve found so far, please follow me down the rabbit hole: “crow” as a word is hundreds (and possibly thousands) of years older than “rooster”. The earliest example of the word “rooster” is 1725, which is just 300 years ago. “Crow” has existed in its current form since before Shakespeare, and it’s derived from old Germanic languages that existed prior to the Roman Empire.

The word “crow” means “to shout or cry”, and it chiefly comes from the proto-Germanic “krähe”, which is an onomatopoeic word. (An onomatopoeia is a word which sounds like the noise it’s describing. “Pow!” or “meow” or “tick-rock”.) Depending on the dialect, krähe sounds variously like “crow”, “craw”, and “caw”, all sounds associated with crows and roosters. Crow calls are specifically called “caw” or “kraa”, which I suspect is why they’re called that. Basically people were saying, “Those are the birds that crow,” or crow-birds, which probably immediately got shortened to crow.

The earliest examples of crows have been traced to islands off the coast of Australia 30 million years ago, so they predate humans by several million years. Interestingly, crow beaks used to have more of a hook to them, and the Romans had both a hooked medical instrument and a naval harpoon-like weapon called a “corvus”, named after this shape. “Corvus” is the Latin name for the family of crows, but I couldn’t find if the birds were named after the things or vice versa. I suspect the instruments were named after the animals, which is how it usually goes.

Some crows today have very curved beaks, probably throwbacks to their earlier ancestors. https://images.app.goo.gl/eyMN6dzmN5E... This is also theorized where we get the word “crowbar” from, named after the Roman items and the shape plus color resembling old-timey crow beaks. Although the modern iteration of the crowbar only appeared in the 1740s, the *word* crowbar was first used in the 1400s, and before that the device was often called an “iron crow”.

From here the rabbit hole becomes a real warren, but chickens and roosters were first domesticated in Asia about 8,000 years ago from red junglefowl, later hybridized and crossbred with gray junglefowl and green junglefowl. Since these species still exist, you can see videos of them; their crowing sounds remarkably similar to modern roosters.

Some of the words for chicken in Chinese and Thai sound similar to the English word “chicken”, but I wasn’t able to find out if that’s due to cultural crosstalk where those cultures borrow a version of the word. Japanese is most famous for loanwords, some of which sound very much like the English word — “camera” is virtually identical, for instance — but other words are heavily modified, such as “gurasu” (glass) or “teburu” (table). So I was stymied trying to unknot that.

However, it appears that all of the Asian languages use some form of “caw” or “crow” to indicate the noise that roosters make. I apologize in advance for this earworm, but it’s now in my brain so you should suffer from enjoy it too: https://youtu.be/mxzgwJ8tSE0 It’s a Chinese song about chickens and roosters. You’re welcome?

So all of that to say that roosters crow and crows caw, but it derives from the same source. We’ve just put a little spin on each, or as they say in billiards, we put some English on it.

I’ve been doing this for 5 hours. I’m going back to bed for a nap.

Have anyone listen the audiobook at 2x speed. I have listened to Pandora’s Star at 2x and on chapter 17.

Trike wrote: "TRP wrote: "On the subject of the group not having read any Douglas Adams.
Something I suggested in a previous March Madness pick was that we should read the HitchHiker's Guide Radio Scripts. [book..."

There are a great many Doctor Who audio adventures (originally radio adventures?) They started decades ago & never stopped. They usually have the original actors voicing their characters. I have listened to dozens of them. I haven't listened to or read Douglas Adams, but I've seen the BBC show & the movie & enjoyed them. I'm interested in listening to HGttG.

Francis x wrote: "Have anyone listen the audiobook at 2x speed. I have listened to Pandora’s Star at 2x and on chapter 17."

I tried to listen at my normal 1.2x and I couldn't understand the narrator. He had some odd inflections (covered in a thread about the audiobook) that made it really hard for me. Even alone with nothing to do but listen and knit. Or listen and walk around.

Is ok not every book is for everybody. I tried, it wasn't my jam. Meanwhile I have a friend who is re-listening to WoT for the umpteenth time and he's flying through those apparently by listening every waking moment he doesn't have something "else" to do. He can apparently also listen while working on some things, which....my job never seems to work that way. Hehehe.

I listen while working frequently. I just have to pause to read/write emails or talk to other people.

Ian (RebelGeek) wrote: "I listen while working frequently. I just have to pause to read/write emails or talk to other people."

I don't know what you do, but I know what he does. I cannot do my job and listen. A lot of my day involves meetings so that's probably obvious but the times I'm not in meetings I'm usually trying to solve an issue (to talk about in the next meeting) and I can't do that kind of thinking and listen usefully.

The friend in question has the same job I do, though on a different program. I still don't understand how he listens as much as he does.

I have no idea how anyone can do this unless the job requires mindless repetition or purely physical effort. I can do music too block out background noise but not stories.

terpkristin wrote: "The friend in question has the same job I do, though on a different program. I still don't understand how he listens as much as he does."

He was in charge of the one that crashed, wasn’t he?

Trike wrote: "He was in charge of the one that crashed, wasn’t he?"

Not that I know of. Hilariously, my last 2 programs were involved in fairly well publicized launcher anomalies (at least in the industry press). Neither were the fault of my company/the satellites.

I listened to Pandora's Star at 2X and force marched my way through Judas Unchained doing some sections at 3.5.




I am a monster

I figure my reading speed is 1.5x the audio.

I usually listen at 1.2 or 1.25x, but I may increase speed for PS when my hold finally comes in.

Regarding the issue of a lack of trans representation in PS. If you have full body regeneration with all the modifications you could wish for, would identifiable trans characters even exist?

AndrewP wrote: "Regarding the issue of a lack of trans representation in PS. If you have full body regeneration with all the modifications you could wish for, would identifiable trans characters even exist?"

I would say yes as you are effectively changing your sex from your birth sex. The technology just allows a more thorough transformation than now. For full transformation it would probably require rebirth.

Not exactly what I was commenting about but an interesting follow up.

You would expect more long lived people to play with gender and sexuality rather than all being funnelled into largely cis-hetro relationships.

An example of a non-trans transformation would be Doctor Who where it has become clear that Time Lords can be of either sex after a generation (vaguely similar to Left Hand of Darkness).

In The Player of Games Culture book 2, they could physically switch their gender if they wanted & it was presented as a complete gender transformation, but not explained in detail. I assume it was some kind of triggered transformation like the protagonist in the 1st book Consider Phlebas.
Time Lords changing gender is a new idea since (view spoiler)[Missy was revealed to be The Master (hide spoiler)]. That being said, Doctor Who has always been revealing (making up) more about The Doctor & their origins since the 60's when we 1st saw a regeneration.

As I mentioned in the chat for the Slow Burns episode of the podcast, John Varley's Nine Worlds stories feature gender change without the male gaze aspect. Memory backup and cloning on demand really change society.