Star Squad — Starcrossed Series Fan Group discussion

Hi everyone.

This discussion thread will contain spoilers for the entire Starcrossed series: Starcrossed, Dreamless, and Goddess.

This thread is for discussing spoilers of the entire series, there is no need to use spoiler tags unless you are referring to a book outside of these three listed — if so clearly mark before the tag what book you’re talking about.

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DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️if starcrossed was turned into a movie, who would you cast as your favorite character?

oh my god, are you trying to get us all to fight each other? these questions are dangerously controversial...

1. I always have a hard time choosing just one person, and I change my mind a lot when it comes to that. Lately I've really been liking Gioele Ossola as Lucas, he's not an actor though as far as I know. Also, Phaith Montoya as Aileen - she's so beautiful, also not an actress though...
2. The House of Thebes. I really like music :) and all of the other arts, really. Would suck being related to all the hot people tho... I think all in all I'd still prefer to be mortal, just so I definitely still have a chance with my faves.
3. Tantalus is complicated. Really complicated and fascinating. Personally, I love him because he is somehow a villain but not an antagonist? Not directly, at least. I just live for the dynamic that him being consistently on the wrong side and making objectively terrible decisions creates both between him and his family as well as within the family/entire House of Thebes. I think he's another character where fate is really the thing that dooms him, and he can't escape it. I imagine he wasn't thinking "Hey, you know what will make my life infinitely better? Murdering my little brother so I can have his fiancé". No rational person does that, and outside of everything Daphne he seems to be pretty rational/smart. We already know that The Face can make people crazy, and madness is the only sickness that can really get to a scion. Me personally I judge his actions on a similar level as Leda trying to murder Orion when he was little. Neither of them were in control of themselves, not really. All in all, his and Ajax' and Daphne's fate mostly makes me sad, because it could have been so good, but it was not meant to be. In conclusion: f--- fate, all my homies hate fate.
4. I guess love is always worth it. I do have a complicated relationship with the intertwining of love and fate though with those two...
5. I think they'd be very different. For one, Lucas would have a very different perspective of scion life and culture, so to speak, than Helen does. She was new to all this, he was born and raised with those beliefs and the knowledge etc. It'd also reveal some more about the House of Thebes and the place of the Delos family within it.
6. Hard to say. They all grew in such different ways... I'd have to say Hector, although Claire is a close second.
7. Goddess. Everything from how the gods (beyond Ares) were introduced, having more of an insight into Orion's family, the prophecies, everything that happened at the Summit, Matt and Claire betraying Helen, Lucas trading places with Hades etc etc. I was holding my breath until the last page.
8. One of the very few things I would have changed is the relationship between Orion and Cassandra. Personally, I think it should have been left more open-ended. 18 and 14 just feels a bit icky to me, at a later point I wouldn't have cared much for the age difference but as a teenager, it's a lot. With it being alluded to as them being protector and protegée to it being confirmed in Helen's visions of Troy, it could have been left just as a particularly close friendship with them not yet being romantically involved, and could have been a subplot in later books. However I'm not too mad at it, I love both of them as well as the idea of them as a couple.

(also Niclas Gillis as (younger) Tantalus. Or Hugh Laughton Scott. They're my main guys for fanart references when I draw him.)
((Okay, I'll admit it, I'm a little obsessed with Tantalus. Sue me, I like the fratricide guy...))
(((Not a fan of the fratricide though, just for the record)))

I've answered all of the questions minus the first one, as I don't know or pay attention enough to actors to answer this question.

2. If I were a Scion, I would want to be from the House of Athens. I've always been a fan of the feeling of water when swimming, and out of the four "elements", water is my favorite one. I used to be a competitive swimmer from the beginning of middle school until the end of high school. I haven't done a good enough job of swimming throughout college, but I would definitely want to get back into recreational swimming. I also think that it would be cool to (possibly) be able to breathe and see underwater. Seeing Daedalus in action while fighting makes me think that the House of Athens is very efficient, or that I could at least learn to fight like that. The one thing I'm not a fan of is their treatment of Earthshakers. Another reason I'd like to be from this House is that Poseidon is one of my favorite Greek gods, while the others aren't in my favorites list (I like Poseidon, Athena, Hades, and Artemis the most). I do think that it would be cool if I had Falsefinder powers from someone from the House of Thebes, but I would mainly want to be from the House of Athens.

3. I don't think that Tantalus is entirely evil. He did care about his family (brothers and sister), as shown throughout the three books. He also cared enough about his son to not murder him, even though the Furies would have compelled him to do so. Lastly, Daphne and Ajax thought that Tantalus would be willing to help him. I think his main problem is that the Fates cast him into the role of Menelaus, and that his greed and lust for Daphne got in the way. If he were able to control himself around Daphne, I think that things would have turned out very differently for Daphne and Ajax, although we probably wouldn't have Helen Hamilton in the series if the outcome of their meeting was different 🤔. I agree with the fact that the Fates are Tantalus's true problems. Also, counseling for the Scions could be very useful. For example, Leda would greatly benefit from therapy and possibly medication, as she definitely has trauma from killing her brother, but the human mental health hospitals wouldn't be able to restrain her before she hurt herself, and they wouldn't understand why she would think that her baby looked like her brother. It's possible that modern mental health treatments wouldn't work on Scions, but hopefully someone can help her, as I don't think Daedalus and Daphne restraining her and calming her down is going to work as a long-term solution.

4. I really think that the love between Helen and Lucas was worth it. Despite the fact that the two fight, we also have to understand that they're still teenagers. Even though Lucas was a jerk towards Helen, I don't think he did anything bad enough for Helen to need to leave him. I also think that they are very supportive towards each other, and they complement each other very well. This is because they each help the other and contribute equally to the relationship. Plus, Lucas doesn't let his jealousy ultimately get the better of him. This is unlike Helen and Orion, where Helen benefits from a potential relationship much more than Orion, who deserves to be someone's first choice (the Orion and Cassandra relationship is also so cute!).

5. I think that we'd lose some of the mystery from Book 1 if the series was from his perspective. This is because we'd already have an idea of Scions and culture from Lucas's perspective. The main mystery in this book would be about which House Helen is from. In Book 2, we'd have more of a mystery about Helen being super tired, but I ultimately prefer reading the books from Helen's perspective. I will say that I am curious about what Goddess would be like from his perspective, especially since his idea of Helen and Orion is flat-out wrong.

6. Helen for sure has the most growth in my opinion! She started out as a shy, anxious girl with low self-esteem, and grew into a confident, immortal girl who still maintains her traits of compassion, love towards others, and her determination to help those she cares about.

7. Goddess has my favorite plot twists by far!! Seeing the introduction of the other gods, learning about the Worldbuilder talent, Helen figuring out how to keep Lucas from ruling the Underworld for the time being, and Helen trapping Zeus in Everyland were some of my favorite moments!!

As an aside, did anyone else actually think that Helen was Zeus' replacement, Lucas was Hades' replacement, and Orion was Poseidon's replacement before the gods came up to meet? I honestly thought that these three were the specific gods' replacements based on powers. Lucas has the Shadowmaster talent, can make himself invisible, and is super intelligent, things that apply to Hades. Meanwhile, Orion has the Earthshaker talent, can swim, and can be seen as intimidating, things that describe Poseidon more. I had actually gotten confused about this when the book kept on focusing on physical features. I think the main thing for me is that I focused more on the Shadowmaster part of Lucas than the heart-talent that Orion has when thinking of Hades. Feel free to answer this question. For the record, I definitely thought that Helen was Zeus's replacement too, and I hadn't thought about Hector being Apollo's replacement. This does make me wonder who the replacements for the other Olympians are, such as Athena and Artemis.

8. For an addition to Goddess, I would have wanted Zeus's perspective in the epilogue, as I was very curious about his exact thoughts once he'd had time to realize that he was trapped in Everyland. For things to take away, I think I would have made the Andy and Hector relationship play out more slowly. Unlike the other relationships, I think that theirs moved by a little fast, plus I wasn't quite as sure of the chemistry as I am with Cassandra and Orion. This might also be just a me thing, as we didn't see them work on their relationship as much as we did the other couples, nor did I see that much foreshadowing for it. Speaking of Cassandra and Orion, I also didn't think about it, but Cassandra being only a 14 year old (almost 15) and Orion being an 18 year old does make the relationship seem somewhat creepy. On the other hand, Orion hasn't done anything to her besides one kiss and holding her hand, and I think that Orion and Cassandra's relationship is cute. Plus, Lucas would definitely defend Cassandra's honor if he had to, so I don't think Cassandra has anything to worry about. There was foreshadowing about her crush in Dreamless, so I'm actually fine with the relationship besides belatedly realizing that Orion is 18, not 17 like Lucas (unless he's 18 as well, but I don't think so since he and Helen are only juniors in Nantucket High).

Therapy for scions is the best idea ever. There's sooo much generational trauma, and just trauma in general tbh. I'd even argue everything that happened in Starcrossed could have been prevented with some good therapy for everyone involved, especially Daphne, and Creon, and Pandora, and Pallas, and Castor, and probably Cassandra as well, and if we're going to the following parts obviously Orion, but also Lucas and Helen and Hector - in short, everyone. Also some good grief counselling.

Emma wrote: "Therapy for scions is the best idea ever. There's sooo much generational trauma, and just trauma in general tbh. I'd even argue everything that happened in Starcrossed could have been prevented wit..."

That's true! The scions could probably work together to set up therapy for everyone, especially now that they don't have to worry about the Furies. All of the scions have too much trauma, especially those from the older generation who have had to kill others. Grief counseling would also be useful.

I do wonder what will happen to Daedalus and Leda now that Daphne's gone. If Leda's super strong, I hope that someone (besides Orion) can help him help her or at least calm her down when she has her episodes. Maybe Daedalus and someone from the Houses of Rome and Thebes can help head a counseling group.

The House of Thebes as healers and also Apollo having a kind of history with madness are probably the most likely contenders. Though I do wonder how much Leda's emotions influence those around her during her fits... that seems like a tricky, dangerous situation for anyone around her.

Now that I think about it, there should definitely be some kind of counseling for oracles, both before and after they’ve made their first prophecies.

Ooh, the House of Thebes would be really good for starting a scions therapy. I didn’t think about that! I don’t think we know enough about Leda and her heart-influencing powers, but she definitely was pretty strong as former Head of the House of Rome. 🤔

... yet. We don't know much yet. And I'm so excited to find out in Outcasts, although I will for sure get my heart broken many times over. And I agree. There need to be many adjustments to the care for an oracle - actually, there shouldn't even be an oracle. At least not in the way it is now. Once again, f--- the fates.

For real! The fates are awful!!!

Unfortunately, I’m not sure how they’d be able to get rid of the oracle position as it is. I doubt that the scions will convince Apollo to give up his immortality. Maybe the Delos family, Helen, and Orion can help Cassandra’s situation!

I also look forward to learning more about Leda, as well as the rest of the Houses.

Answering the discussion questions...

1. I've been actually thinking about that one lately and, I don't really know about the other characters just yet, but I started to picture Dove Cameron as Helen recently. Ooh, and Hector has always looked like the actor who made Emmet in Twilight inside my head (although I know the description doesn't quite match lmao)

2. I think I'm too human to fit in any of the houses but after reading Scions arc, I think the house of roman, because of how they are more brains than brute force.

3. I WANT TO KNOW THAT AS WELL!!! But I don't think so, he just lost his mind over Daphne's Face and we all know that happens. It's a cursed face after all. Hope we get to see what truly happened to him tho! Understand why he killed his brother...

4. YEAH!! LMAO. I mean... I hope so hahah but to be completely honest, I have to say that after Scions as well, I've been questioning the legitimacy of their love. If it's all starcrossed, is it love indeed or are they just compelled to feel that way because of the Fates playing with them? I mean, I could totally picture Helen and Orion together during Dreamless...

5. I think the books would have been really different, since Lucas already had all the knowledge about the Scions, their culture, the wars and so on, which would take away some of the feeling of discovering everything as it goes, but even with that, I think it would've still been interesting, because we would be able to see more about the Delos family, their dynamics and stuff like that, which, although we get to experience through Helen, would've been totally different from his POV.

6. I think Helen, because it's obvious how much of a journey this was for her. And, from her relationship with her friends to her relationship with Lucas, her mother and towards he own powers, I think she was the one who showed the biggest growth along the series.

7. Goddess for sure! Everything about it was amazing. I loved how everything we were waiting for came to a closure there. The faceoff against the gods were everything to me and idk, I just loved every single bit of that book.

8. Nothing at all, I always said Goddess was a perfect book to me and I still stand by that word. Goddess is impeccable and delivers everything we were hoping for as we walked through the (former) trilogy, I just always felt kinda bummed because I wanted to see more of some characters and what would happen to them on the long run, like Cassandra, my baby. But now that the books are back, that's not even a thing anymore! hahah

anyways, I love these books so bad! And I'm so glad to finally have people to discuss it with 🤍

Emma wrote: "... yet. We don't know much yet. And I'm so excited to find out in Outcasts, although I will for sure get my heart broken many times over. And I agree. There need to be many adjustments to the care..."

I totally agree with that, but at the same time, the oracle situation is so complicated, because of the fates and how they try to control the oracle's life as to not lose the scion that was given to them... think the best course of action would be to get rid of the fates like it was done with the furies... tho I don't know if that would be possible

DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ what scene from any of the books has stuck with you since finishing the series?

DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ do helen and lucas REALLY love each other, or are their emotions just being manipulated by the fates and they THINK they are in love? or both? or neither? what do you think?

oooh that is such a tricky question. i love thinking about that, because it's a bit complicated, especially because of my feelings about the original helen and paris. paris chose aphrodite, aphrodite chose helen *for* paris. it's a bit of a "aphrodite says jump, they say how high" situation (depending on what version of the myth/the characters you go by. i'm not a big fan of her meddling and of predestination/fate in general and i love to see characters defying it - which is also part of why i think helen being able to fall in love with orion *despite* being fated with lucas is actually pretty interesting and impressive, really. i've also always wondered if in part that was possible because they 1. spent a lot of their time together in hades where they're "not special" (they still are but they don't have their scion powers) and 2. because orion has his whole thing with fate and shielding those around him from it. so while i love helen and lucas, i do have to wonder how much of their falling in love has to do with what they are to their story/the plan of the fates as opposed to who they are as individuals. this does not have to negate their love for each other, they can still truly be in love and be happy with each other even if they were bound to end up together. it can always be both, and it doesn't have to be a bad thing but it is something to think about...

these questions are really making me nervous for the rest of the series, lord (josie) help us all

DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ do you think the gods redeemable in any way?

Definitely depends on the god. Some of them can rot (Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon and Ares) but others we heard very little about. Artemis for example never even showed up to Nantucket if I remember correctly. It's certainly interesting to think about how them being, well, *there* will affect the world.

DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ if helen had ended up with orion, how different do you think the battle in goddess would have been? the ending of the book in general?

Sarah Grace wrote: "DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ what scene from any of the books has stuck with you since finishing the series?"

Scenes that have stuck with me even before rereading the series last month:
Starcrossed
- Helen and Lucas falling from the sky
- Lucas recognizing Helen's face 🥹
- The fake cousin's storyline hahaha

Dreamless
- Orion and Helen constantly texting
- Lucas giving Helen the coin so she can sleep, and her being in Morpheus's world
- Helen getting the scar on her right iris

Goddess
- The friendship between Hector and Helen
- The final battle and Hector's "death" (I cried every single time reading it)
- every Cassandra and Orion scene
- Matts death
- sneaky Helen trapping Zeus in Everyland

DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ who is the best couple in the series? doesn’t necessarily have to be your favorite :)

Best Couple? Probably Noel and Castor
Fav Couple: Lucas & Helen (I might be basic but these two have my whole heart 😂), Andy & Hector, and I love the potential Cassandra & Orion have (maybe we'll get to see more of them in Timeless)

I’d love to know what it was about the Starcrossed series that made you pick it up, and if you’re a longtime fan, any good memories you have! I’ve loved seeing Josie share personal insights about her experience writing these books and how parts of her life informed and influenced the text. For you, how have these books positively impacted/influenced you? What’s your favourite parts about them?

I picked up Starcrossed after I saw that a friend of mine had them. I've also been a longtime fan of Greek mythology, even before reading Percy Jackson, so I had a feeling that I'd enjoy this book. When I first read the book, I was hooked! There were so many good plot twists in this book, and I was thrilled to read the other two books, Dreamless and Goddess. The fact that there will be more books in this series makes me feel elated!

I related to Helen in that I grew up with a good family and a few good friends, but I still felt like an outsider. This feeling of not belonging has lessened a lot, if not disappeared entirely. I think my favorite part of the books was seeing Helen's growth throughout all three books. Seeing her growth was very inspiring to me, and her self-confidence increase still inspires me to this day. I also enjoyed the fate vs. free will themes, the scion relationships both with themselves and with their loved ones (including fully mortal friends), and the different plot twists play out throughout the three books.

Fun fact: I wanted to try pumpkin pancakes because of reading about them in Dreamless.

DISCUSSION QUESTION ⚡️ what do we think of andy? is she a good match for hector? why/why not?

I love Andy. She's cool and she's an interesting addition to the cast because she's had such a different life than the rest of them, since she's neither a scion nor fully mortal. As for pairing her with Hector, I think they could work well together. She's headstrong, she's resilient, and even though she is - understandably - a little wary of everyone she meets, she seems to be a kind person. I'm really curious how their relationship will progress, since it started on, ahem, less than ideal terms. They both have a whole bunch of trauma to deal with and I'm excited to see how they will handle that together.

Also on that note I was so mad at Daphne for how she treated Andy in that one scene. Not everything is about Hector, lady, and Andy doesn't have to immediately like the dude that has the same face as her s*xual assaulter just because he's actually a good guy and you happened to be in love with the face once. And seriously, if anyone should understand Andy it would be Daphne... but maybe that's exactly the reason why she dislikes her, because they have a similar situation with men, with Daphne having The Face and Andy being half siren.

I'm also curious to see how Andy develops as a character because when we meet her in Goddess it is basically shortly before and then immediately after she was assaulted and suffered major trauma, which of course really affected her. And then she's basically living with complete strangers and facing down a war... I really want to know who she is as she heals from all that.

Lianne wrote: "I picked up Starcrossed after I saw that a friend of mine had them. I've also been a longtime fan of Greek mythology, even before reading Percy Jackson, so I had a feeling that I'd enjoy this book...."

Thank you for sharing this with us! 💗 It was lovely to read your experiences and the memories you have with the trilogy. I just have one (two, depending on how you answer the first) question: did you try the pancakes? Did you like them?

Gabby wrote: "Lianne wrote: "I picked up Starcrossed after I saw that a friend of mine had them. I've also been a longtime fan of Greek mythology, even before reading Percy Jackson, so I had a feeling that I'd e..."

I did get to try the pancakes, and I really liked them!!

It helps that I like pumpkin bread as well 😁