Reading the 20th Century discussion
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November 2022 -> Nomination thread (America - Won by They Shoot Horses Don't They? by Horace McCoy)
I used to love reading John Irving and think of his novels as quintessentially American. Maybe it's time to revisit one of his? So many possibilities...
Also always fancied reading...
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970)
by
Horace McCoy
...which is a perfect fit for the theme too
The marathon dance craze flourished during the 1930s, but the underside was a competition and violence unknown to most ballrooms—a dark side that Horace McCoy's classic American novel powerfully captures.
Hmmm. So many possibilities
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970)
by
Horace McCoy
...which is a perfect fit for the theme too
The marathon dance craze flourished during the 1930s, but the underside was a competition and violence unknown to most ballrooms—a dark side that Horace McCoy's classic American novel powerfully captures.
Hmmm. So many possibilities
So many choices, indeed - I immediately thought of Philip Roth, Cormac McCarthy, Toni Morrison and Joyce Carol Oates. Plus the quintessential The Great Gatsby, though I expect we've all read it.
Also on a smaller scale: Brooklyn, Mercury Pictures Presents, and Kindred.
I hadn't heard of They Shoot Horses, are dance marathons what they sound like?
Also on a smaller scale: Brooklyn, Mercury Pictures Presents, and Kindred.
I hadn't heard of They Shoot Horses, are dance marathons what they sound like?
Hmm. A big subject! And all great ideas so far.My first thought was a novella I read recently, Train Dreams by Denis Johnson, which struck me as very American. But it's 21st century.
So I'm thinking maybe
Invisible Man by Ralph EllisonHere's a little something from LitHub, about why it's on their relatively short list of Great American Novels (https://lithub.com/a-brief-survey-of-...)
It is Invisible Man. No, it was not written by a Nobel Laureate or Pulitzer Prize winner, nor has it been around for centuries. It is a novel of substance, of layers and riffs. It might even be said to be the greatest American novel.
The greatness of Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man (1952) comes from being many things to many readers. A racial epic. A bildungsroman in the form of a dramatic monologue. A rich psychological portrait of racial identity, racism, history, politics, manhood, and conflicted personal growth. An elusive story of and by an elusive, nameless narrator. A jazz-like play on literature, music, society, memory, and the self. A product of a voracious reader and writer. Somehow, it is all of these, perhaps one of the reasons it netted the National Book Award over The Old Man and the Sea and East of Eden.
I've been wanting to read E.L Doctorow's Ragtime, which I missed when it first came out.Published in 1975, Ragtime changed our very concept of what a novel could be. An extraordinary tapestry, Ragtime captures the spirit of America in the era between the turn of the century & the First World War. The story opens in 1906 in New Rochelle, NY, at the home of an affluent American family. One lazy Sunday afternoon, the famous escape artist Harry Houdini swerves his car into a telephone pole outside their house. Almost magically, the line between fantasy & historical fact, between real & imaginary characters, disappears. Henry Ford, Emma Goldman, J.P. Morgan, Evelyn Nesbit, Sigmund Freud & Emiliano Zapata slip in & out of the tale, crossing paths with Doctorow's imagined family & other fictional characters, including an immigrant peddler & a ragtime musician from Harlem whose insistence on a point of justice drives him to revolutionary violence.
Wow, I'd never even heard of dance marathons!
A couple of non-fictions that look fascinating:
Madam: The Biography of Polly Adler, Icon of the Jazz Age
Party of the Century: The Fabulous Story of Truman Capote and His Black and White Ball
No, blast! both are too pricy for nominations.
A couple of non-fictions that look fascinating:
Madam: The Biography of Polly Adler, Icon of the Jazz Age
Party of the Century: The Fabulous Story of Truman Capote and His Black and White Ball
No, blast! both are too pricy for nominations.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Wow, I'd never even heard of dance marathons!A couple of non-fictions that look fascinating:
Madam: The Biography of Polly Adler, Icon of the Jazz Age
[book:Party of the Century..."
Over here in UK they also had pole sitting which a relative of mine did. But she didn't win. I also heard a play on the radio years ago about brides and grooms laying in coffins . The last to give up received a house. Wish I could remember the name of it.
https://historyofyesterday.com/pole-s...
This isn't a nomination yet but I'm thinking of Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI which seems very American in so many ways: Native Americans, oil, money, FBI.
Blurb:
Blurb:
In the 1920s, the richest people per capita in the world were members of the Osage Indian Nation in Oklahoma. After oil was discovered beneath their land, the Osage rode in chauffeured automobiles, built mansions, and sent their children to study in Europe.
Then, one by one, they began to be killed off. One Osage woman, Mollie Burkhart, watched as her family was murdered. Her older sister was shot. Her mother was then slowly poisoned. And it was just the beginning, as more Osage began to die under mysterious circumstances.
In this last remnant of the Wild West—where oilmen like J. P. Getty made their fortunes and where desperadoes such as Al Spencer, “the Phantom Terror,” roamed – virtually anyone who dared to investigate the killings were themselves murdered. As the death toll surpassed more than twenty-four Osage, the newly created F.B.I. took up the case, in what became one of the organization’s first major homicide investigations. But the bureau was then notoriously corrupt and initially bungled the case. Eventually the young director, J. Edgar Hoover, turned to a former Texas Ranger named Tom White to try to unravel the mystery. White put together an undercover team, including one of the only Native American agents in the bureau. They infiltrated the region, struggling to adopt the latest modern techniques of detection. Together with the Osage they began to expose one of the most sinister conspiracies in American history.
A true-life murder mystery about one of the most monstrous crimes in American history.
I've been seeing this everywhere for the last few years so let me know if everyone's already read it, except me!
I'll nominateThe Great Mistake: 'a great novel of New York' - Garth Greenwell
by Jonathan Lee
Currently 99p on kindle in the UK, Lee is the author of High Dive amongst other novels, which I loved.
Andrew Haswell Green is dead. Shot outside his mansion on Park Avenue in the year of our lord, 1903. Born and raised in poverty, a self-made man, Green transformed the island of Manhattan, built its parks and bridges, and watched the city change from a jumbled, littered prospect to a glittering world of money and hope. But Green had a secret, a life locked within him, a life which now, in the hour of his death, may finally be about to break free.
As the detective assigned to Green's murder chases his ghost across the city, other specters appear: a wealthy negro courtesan, a madman with a broken heart, and an ambitious lawyer whose life-long friendship with Green was the cause of all his joy and all his trouble. Richly imagined and beautifully told, The Great Mistake is the story of a city transformed and a life curtailed, and of a murder that took a great man and made him infamous.
by Jonathan LeeCurrently 99p on kindle in the UK, Lee is the author of High Dive amongst other novels, which I loved.
Andrew Haswell Green is dead. Shot outside his mansion on Park Avenue in the year of our lord, 1903. Born and raised in poverty, a self-made man, Green transformed the island of Manhattan, built its parks and bridges, and watched the city change from a jumbled, littered prospect to a glittering world of money and hope. But Green had a secret, a life locked within him, a life which now, in the hour of his death, may finally be about to break free.
As the detective assigned to Green's murder chases his ghost across the city, other specters appear: a wealthy negro courtesan, a madman with a broken heart, and an ambitious lawyer whose life-long friendship with Green was the cause of all his joy and all his trouble. Richly imagined and beautifully told, The Great Mistake is the story of a city transformed and a life curtailed, and of a murder that took a great man and made him infamous.
Blimey, it's hard to choose! I'm toying with No Country for Old Men, by Cormac McCarthy, something from Damon Runyon Omnibus, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson and All That I Have by Castle Freeman Jr. (which is brief, wonderful and steeped in New England but published in 2010 which may disqualify it).I bet I'll think of others, too, but I'll try to make a decision about nomination soon-ish.
I don't think it matters when it's published, Sid, as long as the bulk of the story takes place during the 20th C. I nominated a book published last year.
OK, go on then - I'll nominate All That I Have by Castle Freeman Jr.. I'm sure it hasn't the remotest chance of winning, but the trilogy of which this one is the first plus his other two stand-alones have been a joyous discovery for me and I'd love an excuse to re-read it.
Thanks all
I nominate They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy - more in next post
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
All That I Have by Castle Freeman Jr. (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
I nominate They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy - more in next post
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
All That I Have by Castle Freeman Jr. (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
I've decided to nominate...
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970)
by
Horace McCoy
It feels classically American, it's a mere 125 pages, it's published by Serpent's Tail Classics, and it's readily available on Kindle
"Sordid, pathetic, senselessly exciting. . . has the immediacy and the significance of a nerve-shattering explosion."—The New Republic
The depression of the 1930s led people to desperate measures to survive. The marathon dance craze, which flourished at that time, seemed a simple way for people to earn extra money dancing the hours away for cash, for weeks at a time. But the underside of that craze was filled with a competition and violence unknown to most ballrooms.
Horace McCoy was born near Nashville, Tennessee in 1897. His novels include I Should Have Stayed Home (1938), and Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye (1948).
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970)
by
Horace McCoy
It feels classically American, it's a mere 125 pages, it's published by Serpent's Tail Classics, and it's readily available on Kindle
"Sordid, pathetic, senselessly exciting. . . has the immediacy and the significance of a nerve-shattering explosion."—The New Republic
The depression of the 1930s led people to desperate measures to survive. The marathon dance craze, which flourished at that time, seemed a simple way for people to earn extra money dancing the hours away for cash, for weeks at a time. But the underside of that craze was filled with a competition and violence unknown to most ballrooms.
Horace McCoy was born near Nashville, Tennessee in 1897. His novels include I Should Have Stayed Home (1938), and Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye (1948).
Nigeyb wrote: "I've decided to nominate...They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (1970)"
I remember the film being good - and very bleak!
I'll nominate Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates, a fictional biography of Marilyn Monroe:
In this ambitious book, Joyce Carol Oates boldly reimagines the inner, poetic, and spiritual life of Norma Jeane Baker—the child, the woman, the fated celebrity and idolized blonde the world came to know as Marilyn Monroe. In a voice startling, intimate, and rich, Norma Jeane tells her own story, that of an emblematic American artist—intensely conflicted and driven—who has lost her way. A powerful portrait of Hollywood’s myth and an extraordinary woman’s heartbreaking reality, Blonde is a sweeping epic that pays tribute to the elusive magic and devastation behind the creation of the great twentieth-century American star.
I read it years ago, great book, RC. Haven't read any of the others, but Ragtime has been on my reading radar for a while. They shoot horses looks great. Will explore the others.
Who else is nominating? Or thinking about it?
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
All That I Have by Castle Freeman Jr. (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
All That I Have by Castle Freeman Jr. (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
Actually, Nigeyb, I think I may have been a mite hasty in my nomination. May I change my mind, please? For this category, I think Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson would be better. It's 40-odd years since I read it, but I remember it as a brilliant and sometimes very funny portrait/critique of 60s counterculture in the USA, and the establishment reaction to it.
(I'd be very happy to buddy-read Castle Freeman sometime, if anyone's interested.)
It is done Sid
Who else is nominating?
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
Who else is nominating?
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
Kathleen is thinking about nominations, I think?
Btw, I'm interested that you mentioned Denis Johnson as his name keeps popping up in my feed - have you read much by him?
Btw, I'm interested that you mentioned Denis Johnson as his name keeps popping up in my feed - have you read much by him?
Susan wrote: "I read it years ago, great book, RC. Haven't read any of the others, but Ragtime has been on my reading radar for a while. They shoot horses looks great. Will explore the others."
I've read it too, Susan, but it's so rich that I wanted to re-read, especially the last part, the Kennedy years, which I think I rushed through. So much to discuss as well.
I need to read a good biography of Marilyn - any recommendations from anyone?
I've read it too, Susan, but it's so rich that I wanted to re-read, especially the last part, the Kennedy years, which I think I rushed through. So much to discuss as well.
I need to read a good biography of Marilyn - any recommendations from anyone?
I won't be nominating as I'm already going to face an agonising choice between a couple of the books on the list!
Not sure. I'm still reading Ragtime from the last time it was nominated - possibly in our former group. Years ago I read They Shoot Horses, Don't They? - probably after I saw the movie. Both were good. The book isn't any less bleak than the movie. The Great Mistake sounded interesting to me. So I would be torn between this and Ragtime. Unless I think of something to nominate.
I've read some individual stories by Denis Johnson and they were wonderful. I haven't read any of his longer works or a full book of short stories but I would like to do one as a Buddy read.
Okay. I'll nominate Travels with Charley: In Search of America by John Steinbeck. Story of a trip Steinbeck allegedly took with his dog in, I think, the mid-'60s across America. I say allegedly because I have heard that much of it may have been made up. Made up or not, it is a book I have enjoyed multiple times. I think he turns a pick-up into a camper - before they had campers.
Ben wrote: "I've read some individual stories by Denis Johnson and they were wonderful. I haven't read any of his longer works or a full book of short stories but I would like to do one as a Buddy read."
I'm in for a buddy. I haven't read him at all but The Stars at Noon appeals, and the one everyone recommends is his book of short stories, Jesus' Son.
Who else is interested?
I'm in for a buddy. I haven't read him at all but The Stars at Noon appeals, and the one everyone recommends is his book of short stories, Jesus' Son.
Who else is interested?
Roman Clodia wrote: "Kathleen is thinking about nominations, I think?Btw, I'm interested that you mentioned Denis Johnson as his name keeps popping up in my feed - have you read much by him?"
Thanks! I won't nominate this time though--so many great choices already.
And I've only read that one Denis Johnson, but it was a very good little novella.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Ben wrote: "I've read some individual stories by Denis Johnson and they were wonderful. I haven't read any of his longer works or a full book of short stories but I would like to do one as a Buddy ..."
I think I'd rather wait until after the vote, but certainly an interesting selection.
I think I'd rather wait until after the vote, but certainly an interesting selection.
Thanks all
Last call for nominations
I'll get the poll up around this time tomorrow
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
Last call for nominations
I'll get the poll up around this time tomorrow
Nominations
Ragtime by E.L. Doctorow (Ben)
Tales of the City by Armistead Maupin (Rosina)
The Great Mistake by Jonathan Lee (Susan)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by Hunter S. Thompson (Sid)
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? by Horace McCoy (Nigeyb)
Blonde by Joyce Carol Oates (Roman Clodia)
Susan wrote: "I think I'd rather wait until after the vote, but certainly an interesting selection"
Sure, we can come back to Denis Johnson.
Also, anyone interested in a buddy of Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI? I love discussing non-fiction with you lovely people, and this book has a ton of awards and 5 star reviews.
Sure, we can come back to Denis Johnson.
Also, anyone interested in a buddy of Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI? I love discussing non-fiction with you lovely people, and this book has a ton of awards and 5 star reviews.
Looks really interesting RC, and I’m tempted, however, for the rest of 2022, I am resolved to making a dent in my enormous stack of books I already own and have yet to read. I’m sure there will be other takers though 🙌🏻
Roman Clodia wrote: "Susan wrote: "I think I'd rather wait until after the vote, but certainly an interesting selection"Sure, we can come back to Denis Johnson.
Also, anyone interested in a buddy of [book:Killers o..."
I thought Killers was excellent. I think the best book that I read that year.
Killers does look good. It would be good to have a non-fiction read on the theme, perhaps in November, where the reading list is lighter?
As well as The Great Mistake, Tales of the City is also 99p at the moment.
Nigeyb, the author of The Great Mistake wrote the book about the Brighton Bombing that we both liked.
I have picked up Tales of the City as it looks great and in case it wins and then goes up in price!
Nigeyb, the author of The Great Mistake wrote the book about the Brighton Bombing that we both liked.
I have picked up Tales of the City as it looks great and in case it wins and then goes up in price!
Susan wrote: "Killers does look good. It would be good to have a non-fiction read on the theme, perhaps in November, where the reading list is lighter?"
Sure, November would suit me.
Sure, November would suit me.
Susan wrote:
"Nigeyb, the author of The Great Mistake wrote the book about the Brighton Bombing that we both liked"
Thanks Susan
Yes, I noticed that. I look forward to reading it
"Nigeyb, the author of The Great Mistake wrote the book about the Brighton Bombing that we both liked"
Thanks Susan
Yes, I noticed that. I look forward to reading it
Books mentioned in this topic
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? (other topics)The Power of the Dog (other topics)
The Ox-Bow Incident (other topics)
The House of the Seven Gables (other topics)
The Scarlet Letter (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Horace McCoy (other topics)William Faulkner (other topics)
Eudora Welty (other topics)
Flannery O'Connor (other topics)
E.L. Doctorow (other topics)
More...








Our November 2022 theme is...
America
Please nominate a 20th century book (either written in the 20th century or set in it) that is centred around the theme of America, and that you would like to read and discuss. It could be fiction or non-fiction
Please supply the title, author, a brief synopsis, and anything else you'd like to mention about the book, and why you think it might make a good book to discuss.
Happy nominating.