Nothing But Reading Challenges discussion

Young Hiram Walker was born into bondage. When his mother was sold away, Hiram was robbed of all memory of her—but was gifted with a mysterious power. Years later, when Hiram almost drowns in a river, that same power saves his life. This brush with death births an urgency in Hiram and a daring scheme: to escape from the only home he’s ever known.

So begins an unexpected journey that takes Hiram from the corrupt grandeur of Virginia’s proud plantations to desperate guerrilla cells in the wilderness, from the coffin of the Deep South to dangerously idealistic movements in the North. Even as he’s enlisted in the underground war between slavers and the enslaved, Hiram’s resolve to rescue the family he left behind endures.

This is the dramatic story of an atrocity inflicted on generations of women, men, and children—the violent and capricious separation of families—and the war they waged to simply make lives with the people they loved. Written by one of today’s most exciting thinkers and writers, The Water Dancer is a propulsive, transcendent work that restores the humanity of those from whom everything was stolen.

Nominator: Cat (mod)

Chapter Breakdown

Date		Chapters 	Pages		MPDQs
16 Feb		1-7		1-107		Cat

17 Feb		8-15		108-196		Amanda

18 Feb BREAK DAY

19 Feb		16-25		197-300		Karen

20 Feb		26-end		301-403(end)	Karen

Guidance for DQ setters
Aim for a reasonable number of questions: 4 - 5 is typical. Please don't post too many - any more than 7 gets unwieldy!
Use consecutive numbering of the DQs for your days. So, for example, if Day One is posted as questions 1-4, Day Two should start at number 5 etc.
Don't worry too much about your questions: you aren't being tested on how clever your questions are!
Hints and tips:
- Is there a quote that jumped out at you? Use that in a question.
- What about the characters - do they generate strong feelings? No feelings? - either way, we can explore that!
- What about that plot twist?!
- Explore the writing style: is there an unusual structure being used? what's the tone of voice like? or the point of view?

Want more information about how NBRC runs their Book of the Month discussions? Check out the information here

DQ Volunteers

Cat
Amanda
Karen

Eldarwen (if necessary)
Kate S (If necessary)

BOM Participation Verified

Cat
Karen

Joining this one.

If not enough people join, then I can take a set of DQ as well.

I'd like to join this one. Happy to take a set of DQ if being a newbie to DQs is fine!

Amanda wrote: "I'd like to join this one. Happy to take a set of DQ if being a newbie to DQs is fine!"

Absolutely! :-)

Just picked up my copy of this one. Willing to discuss and do DQs if needed.

Picked up the book this morning so I can do the breakdown and some DQs

days have been assigned, except for the last one, which will be a battle royale between E and Kate as to who gets to do it!
Let us know the outcome :)

All depends on how much reading time I'm going to get over the course of the next few days as it will be somewhat limited over the weekend. In that case, DQs would most definitely be late.

DQs Set 1: chapters 1-7

1. Hiram has several unique points: his memory, his ability to get people to talk to him, his position in the Lockless house as a recognised son of Walker. Do you like him as a character? Does he feel real / an authentic person?

2. I was surprised how quickly Maynard got written out of the story. I think I thought there was going to be more brotherly tensions! What do you think about Maynard, and of the changed attitudes towards him after he died?

3. The writing is very evocative of the land (and river), with lots of attention given to the soil and the ways it feels different depending on the fertility. Are you enjoying this descriptive approach to evoke the time and place?

4. Georgie seems to think that Hiram has it pretty good, and is trying to discourage him from running away. To what extent do you agree with Georgie's viewpoint (the risks associated with running away and being caught and losing his privileged position far outweigh the discomforts of being enslaved)? Do you think the different ways of being enslaved, and learning to live with it if possible, are well described?

Eldarwen wrote: "All depends on how much reading time I'm going to get over the course of the next few days as it will be somewhat limited over the weekend. In that case, DQs would most definitely be late."

I'm struggling getting into this! If no-one minds, I'll use mod powers to create a break day in between and then that should help E and I to get to our days :o

The audio is possibly easier - stops those long paragraphs of description being a slog! (I've been switching between the two, and on balance prefer the audio)

1. Hiram has several unique points: his memory, his ability to get people to talk to him, his position in the Lockless house as a recognised son of Walker. Do you like him as a character? Does he feel real / an authentic person?

I do like him as a character. It took me a minute to identify what felt off to me about his character though - with his photographic memory and elevated status in the house, it feels like the story is painting him as very special, thus more "deserving" of freedom than the fellow Tasked without those abilities/lineage. I know it is common for the main character to be "special" though, so maybe I'm reading too much into it.

2. I was surprised how quickly Maynard got written out of the story. I think I thought there was going to be more brotherly tensions! What do you think about Maynard, and of the changed attitudes towards him after he died?

I feel like we don't see enough of Maynard to really know what he's all about. I was definitely expecting to see more tension between Maynard and Hiram, especially considering how Hiram is obviously smarter/better suited to being heir to Lockless than Maynard.

3. The writing is very evocative of the land (and river), with lots of attention given to the soil and the ways it feels different depending on the fertility. Are you enjoying this descriptive approach to evoke the time and place?

Definitely! I think the sense of place is important, and it's interesting to me how Lockless/Virginia are juxtaposed with the terrible "Natchez-way" place. Like Virginia is more of a purgatory while Natchez is hell.

4. Georgie seems to think that Hiram has it pretty good, and is trying to discourage him from running away. To what extent do you agree with Georgie's viewpoint (the risks associated with running away and being caught and losing his privileged position far outweigh the discomforts of being enslaved)? Do you think the different ways of being enslaved, and learning to live with it if possible, are well described?

I think the book has done a really good job at describing the different class levels within the enslaved and even between the "Low" and "Quality" white folks, while still emphasizing that the "Tasked", no matter their status (even free) are still never really free. Very nuanced.

DQs set 2: Chapters 8-15

5. Were you surprised by (view spoiler)[Georgie's betrayal (hide spoiler)]? If not, what tipped you off? I definitely wasn't expecting that!

6. What do you think of Sophia's character? Do you think she cares for Hiram, or was just using him? Think she'll show up again later in the story?

7. So many questions about the Underground! Did you suspect (view spoiler)[Corinne, Hawkins and Mr. Fields (hide spoiler)]of being involved?

8. It seems like Hiram is already experiencing some internal conflicts with the way the Undergound conducts their business. What do you think of the Underground so far? How does it differ from what you thought it might be at the beginning, or from what you've learned or read about the underground railroad?

9. Corinne refers to the power Hiram has to see/travel into other places and times as Conduction. How do you think this power works?

10. Throughout the book, proper nouns like Quality, Tasked, Low, and Underground are used instead of terms like enslaved, slavers, etc. Why do you think Coates uses these words instead of the usual terms? Does it change your experience of the novel?

Cat wrote: "The audio is possibly easier - stops those long paragraphs of description being a slog! (I've been switching between the two, and on balance prefer the audio)"

I was on audio and switched to the paperback :o
Getting back to audio now and I am finding it easier. I think the start was just so out of nowhere I had trouble getting into it on audio

I agree with the start being completely out of nowhere. I haven't had much time to read so far so I'm barely past the first two chapters, but I'm starting to get there.

I don't mind the long descriptions so much as the massive chunks of paragraphs sometimes. It certainly isn't a book to speed through.

And I am absolutely loving the idea of using mod powers to insert a break-day! Good idea, Karen :-) That'll give me a bit more time indeed to catch up and get some decent reading done. Saturday afternoon will be Water Dancer afternoon hehe.

DQs Set 1: chapters 1-7

1. Hiram has several unique points: his memory, his ability to get people to talk to him, his position in the Lockless house as a recognised son of Walker. Do you like him as a character? Does he feel real / an authentic person?

As Amanda has said, his special specialness makes it a little hard to like him. But, I do. I think it's 'cos he's a bit bumbling.
I find the "photographic memory except for my mother" to be interesting - is there something special about her that makes her so blurry for him?

2. I was surprised how quickly Maynard got written out of the story. I think I thought there was going to be more brotherly tensions! What do you think about Maynard, and of the changed attitudes towards him after he died?

He was a bit much, though the "screw you! I'm gonna prove I'm good enough! whhhhyyyyyyy aren't I good enough" attitude at the end of the race day was a hint at something a bit more complex. Like he was living down to expectations against his better judgement?
I'm not entirely sure he's dead - no body, is there? I wouldn't be shocked if there is a "surprise!" moment later in the book.

3. The writing is very evocative of the land (and river), with lots of attention given to the soil and the ways it feels different depending on the fertility. Are you enjoying this descriptive approach to evoke the time and place?

I'm enjoying the language, but prefer the audio as the big slabs of paragraphs pages long make for slow reading.

4. Georgie seems to think that Hiram has it pretty good, and is trying to discourage him from running away. To what extent do you agree with Georgie's viewpoint (the risks associated with running away and being caught and losing his privileged position far outweigh the discomforts of being enslaved)? Do you think the different ways of being enslaved, and learning to live with it if possible, are well described?

I think the different hierarchies of how societies treat the individuals is done well. I'm obviously a bit uncomfortable with how Georgie was trying to encourage Hi to suck up his pain. But also, Hi was being a bit like that - it was only really when Corinne was getting interested in him that he seems to have decided enough was enough.

DQs Set 1: chapters 1-7

1. Hiram has several unique points: his memory, his ability to get people to talk to him, his position in the Lockless house as a recognised son of Walker. Do you like him as a character? Does he feel real / an authentic person?
I do like him, and I quite like how they have introduced his special 'talents' and how he has aged through this section.
In terms of authenticity....I do find the subject matter tricky as I am not American and haven't studied the history so I am both drawn into the story and horrified by it. I can only assume that is is close to a real/authentic person for the time and how they must have felt

2. I was surprised how quickly Maynard got written out of the story. I think I thought there was going to be more brotherly tensions! What do you think about Maynard, and of the changed attitudes towards him after he died?
omg I agree! I actually missed that he died and had to go back to the paperback to work it out (I was baking a potato bake and listening to the audio at the time!). I love the changed attitudes - this is something that we see so often, right?!

3. The writing is very evocative of the land (and river), with lots of attention given to the soil and the ways it feels different depending on the fertility. Are you enjoying this descriptive approach to evoke the time and place?
I struggled at first, but I'm into it now and quite liking it actually

4. Georgie seems to think that Hiram has it pretty good, and is trying to discourage him from running away. To what extent do you agree with Georgie's viewpoint (the risks associated with running away and being caught and losing his privileged position far outweigh the discomforts of being enslaved)? Do you think the different ways of being enslaved, and learning to live with it if possible, are well described?

It is hard for me to say if they are well described (see #1!) but I like how we are given these two views. It is easy from the outside to say that of course he should run, but Georgie is older and is trying to provide him with his experience and view. There is no right answer to what Hiram should do. I think once you have that fire to go, it would be impossible to not listen to it

DQs set 2: Chapters 8-15

5. Were you surprised by [(hide spoiler)]? If not, what tipped you off? I definitely wasn't expecting that!

I was surprised and horrified. But I guess this behaviour has been seen throughout human history. It was gut wrenching.

6. What do you think of Sophia's character? Do you think she cares for Hiram, or was just using him? Think she'll show up again later in the story?

I hope they find each other again. I think she does care but has been so used it is hard to trust.

7. So many questions about the Underground! Did you suspect [hide spoiler)]of being involved?

No i didn’t and I was actually a bit annoyed that they out him through that whole pit and hunt thing. I’m still not convinced that their reasoning was something I would accept if I was Hiram.

8. It seems like Hiram is already experiencing some internal conflicts with the way the Undergound conducts their business. What do you think of the Underground so far? How does it differ from what you thought it might be at the beginning, or from what you've learned or read about the underground railroad?

I don’t know a whole lot about it, but it is interesting so far. When you are trying to fight bad with bad… do you also become a bad person? I’m enjoying the ethical questions

9. Corinne refers to the power Hiram has to see/travel into other places and times as Conduction. How do you think this power works?

This is an interesting component of the book! I like magical realism and I’m sure it will become more important as the story continues.

10. Throughout the book, proper nouns like Quality, Tasked, Low, and Underground are used instead of terms like enslaved, slavers, etc. Why do you think Coates uses these words instead of the usual terms? Does it change your experience of the novel?

I found this interesting too and when I tried google it did talk about the task system of slavery. Were these words actually used or has Coates just used them in the story? I assumed the former but maybe I’m wrong.
It doesn’t change my experience of the novel but did go to the slaves distancing themselves from what was happening to them.

Chapters 16-25

11. There is a continual theme of family. Families being broken and separated ; children being born to women who probably didn’t ask for that attention from the “master” but then the child is held against them or as leverage ; families being created through shared trauma or grief. Are you able to relate to the theme - what are your thoughts on it?

12. The author is a journalist with a history of writing about “cultural, social, and political issues, particularly regarding African Americans and white supremacy.” (Wikipedia). Why do you think he has chosen to include a magical realism component to this book? Would it be more powerful if the underground weren’t using conductions?

13. Bland’s failed mission showed how dangerous their work is and it made me wonder if I would do the same in Hiram’s position. Would you continue with the Underground or try for a different life?

14. I found the description of conductions fascinating and loved the end of chapter 25 on the audiobook with Harriet and her brothers chanting. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

15. Predictions for the end? (I’m 50/50 on if Hiram is able to free Sophia or dies trying. I feel like both are possible)

Whenever I pick up this book, I fall asleep. It's terrible o.O

Haha
Oh no E

If you need me to do the last day DQ I can. I actually ended up really enjoying this!

If you don't mind, that would be great!
I'm now finally finishing the part for the first day's DQ..

I'm starting to enjoy it more but it's slow reading.

DQs Set 1: chapters 1-7

1. Hiram has several unique points: his memory, his ability to get people to talk to him, his position in the Lockless house as a recognised son of Walker. Do you like him as a character? Does he feel real / an authentic person?

Authentic in his own way perhaps, but he isn't exactly reliable in his accounts. He does say often enough himself that his strength was memories, and he therefore doesn't always connect the dots as he should and sees things the way he thinks they are and not always as they truly are. I'm not sure I like him though. But I also do not dislike him.

2. I was surprised how quickly Maynard got written out of the story. I think I thought there was going to be more brotherly tensions! What do you think about Maynard, and of the changed attitudes towards him after he died?

Maynard was out real quick indeed! I thought that first chapter was foreshadowing a much later event! Maynard was a spoilt brat with little to no brains. But he was a son of the Quality. It's always easier to sing someone's praises when you can lie about it because everyone else is just as false about their mourning. Of course, there now is no proper heir anymore, so there may be some truth in that mourning but still.

3. The writing is very evocative of the land (and river), with lots of attention given to the soil and the ways it feels different depending on the fertility. Are you enjoying this descriptive approach to evoke the time and place?

I do like the descriptions, but the book could nevertheless benefit of a little less descriptive block passages and of a better flow to the story.

4. Georgie seems to think that Hiram has it pretty good, and is trying to discourage him from running away. To what extent do you agree with Georgie's viewpoint (the risks associated with running away and being caught and losing his privileged position far outweigh the discomforts of being enslaved)? Do you think the different ways of being enslaved, and learning to live with it if possible, are well described?

In certain aspects, Hiram's life might indeed be a little better - he has the privilege of learning things (even if not everyone might know this or be allowed to know this) and he does not have to do the heavy manual labour of the field workers. The work is different, just as tiring but maybe not quite as taxing on the body. He doesn't have to work outside in every weather either. There is a certain luxury to these things. They are all slaves however, no matter which way you look at it, which is what Hiram cannot seem to be able to grasp.
I'm hesitating between these ways being well described or not. I think a lot of the reader's knowledge comes from history lessons and other books as well and it flows into the understanding of the narration. There is however the interesting distinction between the Quality, ie the high level rich white people, and the Low, the not so fortunate white people who have to do the dirty work for the Quality, but who are still a big step above the tasks who are doing the real dirty work and most of the (heavy-duty) manual labour.
I definitely agree with Georgie's viewpoint since he has a bit more life experience and knows that his seeming freedom is no true freedom at all. But I can also see why Hiram can no longer stay. If the need to get out is this strong, then it would be difficult not to (try to) act upon it. Whether running away is success or not, it's up to the individual to decide whether the risks outweigh their current way of life or not. For some, it is better to die trying than to lie down and just take what life is throwing at you.

DQs Set 1: chapters 1-7

1. Hiram has several unique points: his memory, his ability to get people to talk to him, his position in the Lockless house as a recognised son of Walker. Do you like him as a character? Does he feel real / an authentic person?

I think his gifts are interesting. I have not necessarily thought of him as real or authentic. I am definitely going into this book with a fantastical backdrop. I do not feel like his actions have been out of character.

2. I was surprised how quickly Maynard got written out of the story. I think I thought there was going to be more brotherly tensions! What do you think about Maynard, and of the changed attitudes towards him after he died?

I expected more strive between the brothers. But the death of Maynard brings a different kind of energy and sends the story in a different direction than what I may have expected.

3. The writing is very evocative of the land (and river), with lots of attention given to the soil and the ways it feels different depending on the fertility. Are you enjoying this descriptive approach to evoke the time and place?

I do like the writing. It takes a little more time and focus to get through the passages, but I like the way books like this can wash over me.

4. Georgie seems to think that Hiram has it pretty good, and is trying to discourage him from running away. To what extent do you agree with Georgie's viewpoint (the risks associated with running away and being caught and losing his privileged position far outweigh the discomforts of being enslaved)? Do you think the different ways of being enslaved, and learning to live with it if possible, are well described?

I do think the descriptions are good. The descriptions allow me to understand the motivations of several characters. I am not sure I agree with Georgie's viewpoints, but it's not a life I have to live. Freedom is freedom.

Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "DQs set 2: Chapters 8-15

So many questions about the Underground! Did you suspect [hide spoiler)]of being involved?

No i didn’t and I was actually a bit annoyed that they out him through that whole pit and hunt thing. I’m still not convinced that their reasoning was something I would accept if I was Hiram."

Absolutely! I had (and continue to have) a hard time swallowing this whole situation.

Day 2 ch 8-15

Warning: I have removed spoilers for the remainder of my post.

5. Were you surprised by Georgie's betrayal hide spoiler? If not, what tipped you off? I definitely wasn't expecting that!

I was surprised. The explanation made sense, but I was not expecting it.

6. What do you think of Sophia's character? Do you think she cares for Hiram, or was just using him? Think she'll show up again later in the story?

I feel like Sophie knows herself. She is not interested in doing anything until she is her own woman. I think she cares about Hiram as much as she can, but she knows that in order to truly care about another, she needs to be free. There has been a handful of comments in Hiram's internal monologue wondering where she is. I suppose she will need to be brought back in one way or another.

7. So many questions about the Underground! Did you suspect Corinne, Hawkins and Mr. Fields of being involved?

I did not suspect any of these characters as being involved in the Underground. But I believe that is necessary in order for any underground organization to succeed.

8. It seems like Hiram is already experiencing some internal conflicts with the way the Undergound conducts their business. What do you think of the Underground so far? How does it differ from what you thought it might be at the beginning, or from what you've learned or read about the underground railroad?

I want to better understand the Underground. I think they have a lot of intricate and involved plans. The thing that stuck out to me was the reference to this being a war. All is fair in love and war, right? So, the Underground using all weapons at their disposal should be no question. As much as I am not sure I can share that philosophy, I have never had to face the life of these characters. I have often thought of the underground railroad as a network of helpers, not an army.

9. Corinne refers to the power Hiram has to see/travel into other places and times as Conduction. How do you think this power works?

I have no idea. Magical systems are frequently a mystery to me. I am sure it goes to show that not everyone is appropriate to work with the Underground, each person needs to have skills above and beyond a desire to help.

10. Throughout the book, proper nouns like Quality, Tasked, Low, and Underground are used instead of terms like enslaved, slavers, etc. Why do you think Coates uses these words instead of the usual terms? Does it change your experience of the novel?

I really like these alternative terms. I don't know why the author chose to use them, but I like the descriptive use of how Hiram views other people in his orbit. I think these words made the story more personal and tangible.

Day 3: Chapters 16-25

11. There is a continual theme of family. Families being broken and separated ; children being born to women who probably didn’t ask for that attention from the “master” but then the child is held against them or as leverage ; families being created through shared trauma or grief. Are you able to relate to the theme - what are your thoughts on it?

Family is so much more than just who those with whom we share blood. I find it interesting how quickly some fall into the idea that we are family because you know so and so, but I like your comment about being family through grief and trauma. Shared traumatic experiences can certainly lead to closer relationships faster than other experiences.

12. The author is a journalist with a history of writing about “cultural, social, and political issues, particularly regarding African Americans and white supremacy.” (Wikipedia). Why do you think he has chosen to include a magical realism component to this book? Would it be more powerful if the underground weren’t using conductions?

I thought this quote on page 279 explained a bit: "On the Street we lived in a world of stories and tales, of hoodoo and professed conjuration..." This feels like many African stories. The bit of mysticism makes them more authentic. And then Harriet's explanation of the river and the islands all connected through the stories. The idea that "it was a known practice among the older ones" (p 280) leads credence to the stories mirroring older stories.
I don't know if the magical realism adds to the story Coates is telling, but I think it makes it an easier story to tell.

13. Bland’s failed mission showed how dangerous their work is and it made me wonder if I would do the same in Hiram’s position. Would you continue with the Underground or try for a different life?

I was so moved by the quote in chapter 23, "Soldiers fight in war for all kinds of reasons, but they die because they cannot bear to live in the world as it is." (p 268). This reinforced the view that what the Underground is doing is waging war on the peculiar institution. I have never been to war and hope I can continue that streak. But I can understand how people can reach a point where live is no longer bearable and the only way they can see to change it is through war.

14. I found the description of conductions fascinating and loved the end of chapter 25 on the audiobook with Harriet and her brothers chanting. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

While I have never been a part of a Conduction, I do think the chanting aspect can be seen in the call and response portion of many churches. Also, there is a bit of that atmosphere at some sporting events. Especially high school games with enthusiastic cheerleaders.

15. Predictions for the end? (I’m 50/50 on if Hiram is able to free Sophia or dies trying. I feel like both are possible)

As is typical of me at this point in a novel, I am hoping for the best possible outcome, but prepared for the worst. I will know soon.

@Kate
I really liked the comparisons to war also and that was a great line.

I'm not sure how I feel about the magical realism part. I suppose he is trying to explain a really complicated thing (how so many people were able to get out of the south) in a different way using the mysticism of African stories. In some ways I feel the book could have been more powerful and appealed to more people without it.
(My aunt saw the book last night, read the blurb and immediately went "eh fantasy")!

DQs set 2: Chapters 8-15

5. Were you surprised by Georgie's betrayal? If not, what tipped you off? I definitely wasn't expecting that!

I was - but I guess now his insistence on Hiram staying right where he was made more sense. He didn't want to betray a boy he considered to be sort of family.

6. What do you think of Sophia's character? Do you think she cares for Hiram, or was just using him? Think she'll show up again later in the story?

She cares for him, sure, but not in the way he would like her to or images her to. Since Hiram is still hung up on her and keeps wondering where she is, yes, she will definitely appear in the story again. Even if only in an abstract way, because Hiram will try to find out what happened to her and where she might be.

7. So many questions about the Underground! Did you suspect Corinne, Hawkins and Mr. Fields of being involved?

Ah, no. But then, my attention was drifting so often that I might have missed a few details here and there. I did wonder what might be going on when Hawkins, Amy and Mr. Fields were acting all nervous and weird when they encountered Hiram after his visit to Georgie though I wasn't expecting them to be part of the Underground.

8. It seems like Hiram is already experiencing some internal conflicts with the way the Undergound conducts their business. What do you think of the Underground so far? How does it differ from what you thought it might be at the beginning, or from what you've learned or read about the underground railroad?

I feel like Hiram is experiencing internal conflict about most everything, if he isn't remembering something or other but actually considering his current reality. I'm not sure what to make of the Underground. There are oddities but there are also good things. What they let Hiram suffer through however was inhuman and it was them causing it, too, not just them letting it happen without interfering. Using the Underground for the purpose of revenge however is a bit petty. And I can't help but wonder, as Hiram did himself, what would have happened to Johns and his companion if they had made trouble in any kind of way.

9. Corinne refers to the power Hiram has to see/travel into other places and times as Conduction. How do you think this power works?

I have no clue. Through his memories somehow I suppose but...? Guess we'll learn more about that later on in the book.

10. Throughout the book, proper nouns like Quality, Tasked, Low, and Underground are used instead of terms like enslaved, slavers, etc. Why do you think Coates uses these words instead of the usual terms? Does it change your experience of the novel?

It's an interesting concept and works in describing the different levels of society. It doesn't change the perspective as such, but makes it clearer that we aren't entirely in a real world, that there is something more to what we'd consider reality. I'm not very knowledgeable about this era however and the reality of it all, so these may be terms that were really used and not just an invention of the author.

Chapters 26-end

16. I was trying to imagine myself being Hiram and going back to his father and pretending to be a slave. It must have been so difficult. Do you think you would be able to do it?

17. I really liked how he wrote Corinne Quinn. Acknowledging she was a huge help and trying to do her best, but still took a 'white saviour' role at times. I like that the author showed complexities like this. What are your thoughts?

18. When he told Thena about Kessiah I didn't expect that reaction, but I found it real and raw. How about you?

19. I did not see that ending coming, but I really liked it. I especially loved the way Hi and Sophia made their own family. You?

20. The authors note was so short, I was hoping for more! Will you seek out more on the Still's, and/or more of the authors work?

Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "@Kate
In some ways I feel the book could have been more powerful and appealed to more people without it.
(My aunt saw the book last night, read the blurb and immediately went "eh fantasy")!"

I think this is always a risk. While fantasy can turn off readers, it also introduces a difficult topic to people who may not read realistic fiction. I had this same conversation with my mom after we had both read The Underground Railroad. It seems that using magical realism is not ideal for people who want to read books that face the situation more head on, but allows people who may want a different approach to also encounter these stories.

Kate S wrote: "I think this is always a risk. While fantasy can turn off readers, it also introduces a difficult topic to people who may not read realistic fiction. I had this same conversation with my mom after we had both read The Underground Railroad. It seems that using magical realism is not ideal for people who want to read books that face the situation more head on, but allows people who may want a different approach to also encounter these stories..."

Yes, true. I actually quite like magical realism, but I would have personally preferred this book without it. I felt he did such a great job with the characters and the stories of different slaves that (to me) it took away from the historical aspect. But I also appreciate why it was included. Will be interesting to see what he does with any future fiction books

Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "Chapters 26-end"

Thank you, Karen! :-)
It would take me another couple of days at least to get to the end of the book. This way nobody has to wait around for me.

I am enjoying it more now at least, so there's that.

DQs set 2: Chapters 8-15

5. Were you surprised by Georgie's betrayal? If not, what tipped you off? I definitely wasn't expecting that!

I was surprised, but i guess looking back there were hints - he really didn't want to facilitate the escape attempt, presumably to avoid having to betray him.

6. What do you think of Sophia's character? Do you think she cares for Hiram, or was just using him? Think she'll show up again later in the story?

I think she cares for him. I respect her - she is super clear about her position and what choices she can make and control. I think she'll be back!

7. So many questions about the Underground! Did you suspect Corinne, Hawkins and Mr. Fields of being involved?

I did suspect this - there was a line about how he wished he knew then (or similar) which made me think they were involved, or wanted to get involved.

8. It seems like Hiram is already experiencing some internal conflicts with the way the Underground conducts their business. What do you think of the Underground so far? How does it differ from what you thought it might be at the beginning, or from what you've learned or read about the underground railroad?

I didn't expect all the teaching and forgery - I had thought it was connected safe houses and possible escorts North to freedom, and that the Northern end sorted out the paperwork. Carrying out the forgeries, and this training scheme seems risky when done in the South with roaming gangs of slavers out to capture people.

9. Corinne refers to the power Hiram has to see/travel into other places and times as Conduction. How do you think this power works?

Magic finger waves? it seems to be taking him to known places. Not sure how the time travel piece fits in.

10. Throughout the book, proper nouns like Quality, Tasked, Low, and Underground are used instead of terms like enslaved, slavers, etc. Why do you think Coates uses these words instead of the usual terms? Does it change your experience of the novel?

From the point of view of the enslaved people, it puts their reality at a bit of a distance - it seems like when it's particularly brutal they will revert to slavery, but where they have a bit of space to live in a community without horrific abuse trying to push those memories/fears away is reasonable, I guess?

Eldarwen wrote: "Karen ⊰✿ wrote: "Chapters 26-end"

Thank you, Karen! :-)
It would take me another couple of days at least to get to the end of the book. This way nobody has to wait around for me.

I am enjoying it..."

No worries! And yay - glad you’re enjoying it.
It grew on me too

Chapters 16-25

11. There is a continual theme of family. Families being broken and separated ; children being born to women who probably didn’t ask for that attention from the “master” but then the child is held against them or as leverage ; families being created through shared trauma or grief. Are you able to relate to the theme - what are your thoughts on it?

The idea that families are complex? for sure! The use of family members as leverage? No - thankfully my family is not dysfunctional like that!
I think that showing how slavery forced these sorts of accommodations and rewriting of what it means to be family, and of loyalty ties being VERY tested is important, and done effectively here

12. The author is a journalist with a history of writing about “cultural, social, and political issues, particularly regarding African Americans and white supremacy.” (Wikipedia). Why do you think he has chosen to include a magical realism component to this book? Would it be more powerful if the underground weren’t using conductions?

The magical elements at least get around the long "hiding out, running away" sections you'd have to have otherwise, and keep the focus on the family / loyalty issues that he's exploring (on the basis that other writers have done the pure realism, including actual first person narratives). It's a bit like The Underground Railroad, where there was an actual underground train to move escaping people from one place to another, with the purpose being to show how slavery manifested in different states. SO, I think it works to get the points that Coates wanted to make, made.

13. Bland’s failed mission showed how dangerous their work is and it made me wonder if I would do the same in Hiram’s position. Would you continue with the Underground or try for a different life?

oh, I really don't know! not sure at all. I guess the problem was that Bland was pushing his luck (understandably). Could I work on the escaping part if I wasn't invested? and if invested, could I walk away?

14. I found the description of conductions fascinating and loved the end of chapter 25 on the audiobook with Harriet and her brothers chanting. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

Not experienced anything like that, no! I did find it interesting - the controlled way of accessing the emotions, rather than what Hi's been up to so far.

15. Predictions for the end? (I’m 50/50 on if Hiram is able to free Sophia or dies trying. I feel like both are possible)

I think Hiram will get good at conduction, he'll get Sophia free, possibly with another big escape like Mama Santi did.

Cat wrote: "The magical elements at least get around the long "hiding out, running away" sections you'd have to have otherwise, and keep the focus on the family / loyalty issues that he's exploring..."

Good point. That may have been tedious

Chapters 26-end

16. I was trying to imagine myself being Hiram and going back to his father and pretending to be a slave. It must have been so difficult. Do you think you would be able to do it?

No! Though I guess he had a strong support with his family and Corinne. To the point that being with Sophia was making up for the rest of it, almost.

17. I really liked how he wrote Corinne Quinn. Acknowledging she was a huge help and trying to do her best, but still took a 'white saviour' role at times. I like that the author showed complexities like this. What are your thoughts?

Yes! It was good that she was shown as being flawed - and of recognising that she was flawed.

18. When he told Thena about Kessiah I didn't expect that reaction, but I found it real and raw. How about you?

That was hard to read!

19. I did not see that ending coming, but I really liked it. I especially loved the way Hi and Sophia made their own family. You?

Yes. Sophia was a really good, strong character, and I'm glad that Hi worked out how to be the person she needed.

20. The authors note was so short, I was hoping for more! Will you seek out more on the Still's, and/or more of the authors work?

It was short! Though I never expect author notes. Was definitely interesting to hear about the collection of the histories of the escaped people, and I might look it up when I've more headspace. I've just read this, An Unconditional Freedom (romance set during Civil War time between two POC dodging being (re)enslaved etc) and Babel (all about the evils of colonialism more widely) I need FLUFF now!

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Finally catching up!

11. There is a continual theme of family. Families being broken and separated ; children being born to women who probably didn’t ask for that attention from the “master” but then the child is held against them or as leverage ; families being created through shared trauma or grief. Are you able to relate to the theme - what are your thoughts on it?

I do relate to the theme of found families - with Thena, with Kessiah, and with some of the Underground members like the sweet baker. In circumstances like so many of those in the book, where your blood family is gone or taken, it's so important to form those bonds through shared experience or purpose.

12. The author is a journalist with a history of writing about “cultural, social, and political issues, particularly regarding African Americans and white supremacy.” (Wikipedia). Why do you think he has chosen to include a magical realism component to this book? Would it be more powerful if the underground weren’t using conductions?

I really like some of the connections 'Moses' is making with conduction to folklore, memory and traditions, although I don't think I'm fully grasping the whole story here. I generally really like magical realism, and I do like the idea of explaining miraculous disappearances and rescues in this way. I'm hoping it'll connect more fully for me later on.

13. Bland’s failed mission showed how dangerous their work is and it made me wonder if I would do the same in Hiram’s position. Would you continue with the Underground or try for a different life?

Of course, it's always hard to know how would you really act in situations like that. I tend to be a person who doesn't take risks, but I almost think that the death of someone close to me would spur me onward to do even more for the movement they died for.

14. I found the description of conductions fascinating and loved the end of chapter 25 on the audiobook with Harriet and her brothers chanting. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

I really liked this part as well! It reminded me of going to predominately Black churches - vocal call-and-response is a big part of the worship style there. It feels in a more broad way like emotional validation - Harriet's family lifting her up in her pain and her power.

15. Predictions for the end? (I’m 50/50 on if Hiram is able to free Sophia or dies trying. I feel like both are possible)

I've had a really hard time knowing where this story would go - it's twisted away from my expectations every time. I think Hiram will free Sohpia, but will be disappointed when she doesn't immediately want to start a relationship and family with him. I think the culmination of the book will have to take place at Lockless, potentially with a confrontation with Hiram's father.

16. I was trying to imagine myself being Hiram and going back to his father and pretending to be a slave. It must have been so difficult. Do you think you would be able to do it?

That would definitely be a tough one, but I think Hiram had a strong positive connection to Lockless, despite being enslaved there. It was his home and where his loved ones were/are, which makes a big difference. I doubt he (or I) would have gone back without Sophia and Thena still being there, though. I was also a little confused about Corinne's purpose in sending Hiram back in the first place - sounds like she knew his father would die, and that he was leaving the estate to her, so why bring Hiram back just to be a slave there for a while longer? I know he brought her some intel on the state of things, but it just didn't seem to change much.

17. I really liked how he wrote Corinne Quinn. Acknowledging she was a huge help and trying to do her best, but still took a 'white saviour' role at times. I like that the author showed complexities like this. What are your thoughts?

I thought her characterization was super nuanced as well. Especially the passage where he points out that she's fighting against the institution of slavery, while Hiram and others like him are fighting for the freedom of slaves. A slight but very important distinction.

18. When he told Thena about Kessiah I didn't expect that reaction, but I found it real and raw. How about you?

I didn't expect it either, but it was so in-keeping with Thena's character. To have hope after so long of having to live without it must be gut-wrenching. I'm so happy that Thena got to see her daughter again.

19. I did not see that ending coming, but I really liked it. I especially loved the way Hi and Sophia made their own family. You?

I liked the ending, but it came on quite abruptly and out of the blue for me. Seemed almost too easy, but I am happy to see the characters happy.

20. The authors note was so short, I was hoping for more! Will you seek out more on the Still's, and/or more of the authors work?

I was hoping for more on the author's sources and inspirations as well! I definitely want to read Between the World and Me.

Amanda wrote: "1I was also a little confused about Corinne's purpose in sending Hiram back in the first place - sounds like she knew his father would die, and that he was leaving the estate to her, so why bring Hiram back just to be a slave there for a while longer? I know he brought her some intel on the state of things, but it just didn't seem to change much...."

Part of her character was not really considering feelings - the cause was always more important. I thought she considered the intel would be worthwhile.
As you say, there was that very slight but important distinction about what they were fighting for

I thought it was also about concealing her role in the underground - his father thought she owned Hiram still, and saying she freed (or even sold) him, given the massive play she made for him might have given the game away.

So, massively self-serving all ways about it

Ah yes, Cat I forgot about that bit.
Although she “owned” him, the father needed help and she felt it necessary to oblige to keep her cover

Chapters 16-25

11. There is a continual theme of family. Families being broken and separated ; children being born to women who probably didn’t ask for that attention from the “master” but then the child is held against them or as leverage ; families being created through shared trauma or grief. Are you able to relate to the theme - what are your thoughts on it?

It's a sad reflection of what life used to be like and what life often still is like for some people, even if slavery may have been abolished in name. Some wages and treatment still resemble slavery to this day even if it isn't called that anymore, and the same principles described in your question and applied to this book are still very much true today. Using babies as leverage, breaking apart families.. it's a sad business. Even if in some circumstances for the Underground breaking apart families was at least done for the right reasons because not everyone could be gotten out at the same time.

12. The author is a journalist with a history of writing about “cultural, social, and political issues, particularly regarding African Americans and white supremacy.” (Wikipedia). Why do you think he has chosen to include a magical realism component to this book? Would it be more powerful if the underground weren’t using conductions?

The book/story may not have been more or less powerful without conduction but it definitely would have been more dramatic in a sad and bloody kind of way. It however puts a kinder spin on the hardship those refugees went through. Days or even weeks of running and always looking over their shoulders is reduced to hours or a couple of days because conduction severely reduces travelling time. It is a nice little illusion and gives it all a more hopeful spin, somehow.

13. Bland’s failed mission showed how dangerous their work is and it made me wonder if I would do the same in Hiram’s position. Would you continue with the Underground or try for a different life?

How easy would it be to actually get out of the Underground and live a different life? They preach freedom, but people like Hiram or Harriet are very valued and Hiram was chosen and rescued specifically because of his power. Does he even truly have a choice whether to continue with the Underground or live a different life? I'm not so sure.

14. I found the description of conductions fascinating and loved the end of chapter 25 on the audiobook with Harriet and her brothers chanting. Have you ever experienced anything like this?

It finally made it all a bit clearer for me at least and I find conductions interesting for sure. For the chanting part, I sure was glad to have listened to that part on audiobook and not read it because I think the audio brought that part much more alive than it would otherwise have been.

15. Predictions for the end? (I’m 50/50 on if Hiram is able to free Sophia or dies trying. I feel like both are possible)

Both are definitely possible. He will for sure make the best out of it. I'm not sure if the author is one for happy ends or not. Some parts of the book lead me to believe that yes, this is going to be a sort of happy end and Hiram will be able to rescue Sophia, but other parts lead me to believe that nope, he will either die trying or he will manage to rescue her, she will thank him and then promptly go her own path and leave Hiram. Because I am still not sure she has as many feelings for Hiram as Hiram does for her.

Good to see you are still going, E!