The Sword and Laser discussion

Hi everyone!

I really love the Alien culture in Children of Time. The Aliens and their society feel both utterly "alien" and at the same time totally relatable.

Coming fresh off the book I think it may one of the best imagined Alien cultures I have ever read. And it made me wonder what you all think:

What are the best depictions of Alien cultures in Science Fiction?

Maybe we can even do a poll or ranking once we have enough nominations? What do you say?

The Lost Steersman hands down best description ever! Disclaimer: It is book 3 of a series (and I wouldn't recommend reading out of order).

OK, fair question.
Many years ago I read a short by James Blish - I can't even remember the title - which tried to portray the effects of meeting an alien culture, and left the main protagonist speaking irregular German plurals. The main effect it had on me was to make me conclude that alien cultures would be by definition alien - and therefore very hard work to understand, even to communicate with in any way.
On the other hand I recently re-read Fire Upon The Deep by Vernor Vinge - and was quite impressed!
Aidan Tchaikovsky is not an author I am particularly fond of, but I guess I ought to try this one - everyone deserves a second chance (even though I lemmed the only book of his that I have tried, round about half-way through).
And I will give the Steerswoman a chance as well.
Any more recommendations?

Morning Light Mountain is everything. Everything he is (from the Keldian heavy metal song).

Alan wrote: "On the other hand I recently re-read Fire Upon The Deep by Vernor Vinge - and was quite impressed!"

Yes, the Tines from A Fire Upon the Deep spring immediately to mind. Vinge’s aliens are very cool, and he’s accounted for pretty much every nook of their society based on their unique biology.

For those unfamiliar, the Tines are sort of canine-esque aliens who have tympanic membranes on their bodies that allow them to communicate with one another on an intimate level akin to a hive mind. Each individual is no more intelligent than a smart animal, but together their gestalt mind makes them equal to human intelligence.

However, the ideal number of individuals making up this groupmind is between 4 and 6. Fewer than 4 and they’re basically chimpanzee-level smart. More than 6 and they literally can’t hear themselves think, because the membranes are exchanging too much conflicting information. So an entire mob of Tines devolves into a bunch of dumb, directionless individuals who are agitated by all the noise they hear.

Interestingly, because each member has their own level of smarts and personality, each 4-6 group then takes on a unique level of intelligence and a distinct personality. It’s possible to have a group of 4 Tines as smart as Einstein and a group of 6 Tines be the equivalent of a low-grade moron. Swap individuals between these two groups and you’ll get an entirely different level of intelligence. And a completely different “person”. Each time an individual dies, the “person” they were is fundamentally altered. If a particularly dominant individual dies, then it’s entirely possible the groupmind persona dies with them, as the remaining members realign. Oh, and they also don’t live as long as humans, so these personalities are in constant flux.

A war between groups can result in a complete loss of self, as groups dissolve and re-form, changing their intelligence level and personality on the fly. A bunch of dumb-as-a-hammer gung-ho warrior groupminds may just disappear in a throng, only to have a slew of very smart pacifists emerge from the mix-and-match of individuals.

So the Tines don’t have cities. That kind of crowding would result in a breakdown of society as they reverted to maddened animals. Inherent in their culture is the push-pull of needing others in order to function but to also avoid as many other groups as possible in order to maintain their distinct groupmind identity.

And there have been, usually always are, group personas who want to maintain their personas, so they’ve tried various gambits such as inbreeding among their small group and selective breeding of promising individuals. By doing so, they become a sort of living Ship of Theseus, where the individual Tines are replaced but the underlying personality remains more or less intact. As I recall, a couple of truly dedicated groups have maintained their core personality for upwards of 120 years. However, the price is great; inbreeding causes issues due to limited genetic variation. The persona may remain, but at the cost of having crippled members who are born blind or can’t walk or whatever.

Unfortunately, the usual method of reproduction can result in a complete dissolution of the groupmind persona, because an individual might join with another group, either accidentally or through coercion, which is why some monomaniacal personas opt for the more dangerous methods of keeping their personality intact.

Amazingly, Vinge conveys all of this without infodumps. He just throws you in and lets you figure this all out by showing, not telling. It’s a bit puzzling at first, but it soon becomes clear.

I liked the Vinge aliens also, although I'm not prepared to go into a Trike-level of detail about it.

The Ringworld aliens were also interesting if I recall correctly.

RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "The Ringworld aliens were also interesting if I recall correctly."
Ringworld - mostly derived from human stock, with biological and some sociological/psychological tweaks. Similarly in the broader 'Known Space' universe, the Kninti are given Terran-based physiology, and psychology derived largely from militaristic humans. Niven was a brilliant author, but his aliens did not push the boundaries much. He didn't develop the Trinocs or the Kdatlyno ... but I sort of wish he had gone deeper into Puppeteer sociology.

I'm of two minds. The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers was a standout for the descriptive depth each of the alien races in the book received. It has been a while since i read it, but I still remember the family system and social norms of the Aandrisks. I definitely appreciated cozy aliens for a change and I think that SF novels typically miss out on the kind of detail we get in this story.

On the other hand if you asked me what I thought first contact would be like, I would have to scream "SOLARIS," at the top of my lungs. The crowd would then chant back at me, "LEM, LEM, LEM". Even though the alien is more of a plot construct, and not a character or alien society, it is still the best imagined alien i've come across in my reading. There's something stimulating about an alien remaining 'alien' and not some alt-humanoid or insect hive mind construct that we can all imagine just fine on our own.

Laith wrote: "I'm of two minds. The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet by Becky Chambers was a standout for the descriptive depth each of the alien races in the book received. It has been a while since i read it,..."

The 4th and (for now) last in the Wayfarers series, The Galaxy, and the Ground Within is if anything even better and depicting a variety of aliens because pretty much all of the characters are non-human.

One of the hardest things to do is to depict truly alien beings without making them incomprehensible to the reader. I'm not even sure it's possible for a human who has never met an intelligent alien to do it. I mean, other primates, dolphins and whales seem to have some level of sentience but we don't even understand them.

The Moties in all their variety in The Mote in God's Eye are some of the most interesting aliens ever.
And then there is Angel Station in which we get first contact with really cool and very odd aliens (and also sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll in a far future setting.)

Oh I totally agree with the "Moties" - Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell showed me there could be more than "rubber forehead aliens" in Science Fiction!

Has anyone read any "Sector General" books by James White(for example Hospital Station)? It's about a space hospital and they have lots of interesting, often extremely strange aliens who are all classified with a four letter system based on their physiology and needs. From empath spiders to six-legged elephants there's all kinds of fun aliens.

But that's more about interesting alien biology rather than culture...

I'm a big fan of the Compact races from C.J. Cherryh's The Pride of Chanur books. The hani themselves (sort of cat people) are pretty close to human, but the other races get increasingly weird, especially the methane-breathers like the knnn who talk in matrices of harmonics.

The heptapods from Ted Chiang's Stories of Your Life and Others are definitely one of my favorites. I love the story's take on language and perspective. Probably why I'm enjoying this month's book too.

Jan wrote: "Has anyone read any "Sector General" books by ..."
Agree that is more about alien biology than culture - but good stuff by the standards of its day. Worth noting that the Sector General stories go back to the 1960s! That's a long time ago, and tastes change. Even so, credit where due - Jim White was a good author and a very nice bloke!

Alan wrote: "Agree that is more about alien biology than culture - but good stuff by the standards of its day. Worth noting that the Sector General..."

Yeah, everything regarding gender didn't age very well. But it's almost funny when you realize that White did notice at some point in time that - well, women could be doctors, too!

Alan wrote: "RJ - Slayer of Trolls wrote: "The Ringworld aliens were also interesting if I recall correctly."
Ringworld - mostly derived from human stock, with biological and some sociological/psychological twe..."

Sure, we can agree to disagree.

Dr. Vinge seems to have a firm grasp of the possibilities that evolution can create. In addition to Fire Upon the Deep, he wrote A Deepness in the Sky, about a spider civilization. It's a rough prequel to Fire Upon the Deep.

Three Body Problem, although I heard you don't see them until the 4th book, and some people don't take it as canon.

Alan wrote: "alien cultures would be by definition alien - and therefore very hard work to understand, even to communicate with in any way"

Which is why it's unusual to find aliens that aren't a variation on a 2m upright biped. Anything else is unrelatable for a reader.

Within those constraints for a writer Tim Zahn dedicated the second book in The Conqueror trilogy, Conquerors' Heritage to the 'aliens'. The Zhirrzh are 2m upright bipeds but Zahn gave them a distinct society.

At the other end of the scale is Bios where Robert Charles Wilson leans into the problem of alien intelligence being unrecognisable.

Trike wrote: "Alan wrote: "On the other hand I recently re-read Fire Upon The Deep by Vernor Vinge - and was quite impressed!"

Yes, the Tines from A Fire Upon the Deep spring immediately to mind. V..."

you beat me to it! The Tines got my vote.