All About Books discussion

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An absolute classic

I have been wanting to read something by Maugham, but then hesitated—I was afraid it might be a novel of manners along the lines of, e.g., Evelyn Waugh. I’ve read the first five chapters now, and it at least seems a bit more substantive than that. I’m not sure what I’ll think in the end, but I’m still interested.

It is a very good book, my most favorite by Maugham untill I read Of Human Bondage. It is slightly inclined towards philosophy.

Nidhi wrote: “It is a very good book, my most favorite by Maugham untill I read Of Human Bondage. It is slightly inclined towards philosophy.”

That’s what I’m hoping for. 😀

Having just read Part 1- The characters are very intriguing. It seems quite important that Maugham finds Larry in the library all day long reading William James’ book. I think there is a risk that “loafing” as Larry puts it could be construed as just laziness. Indeed, his friends are all confused about him. But, this small incident shines a light on what’s going on behind the facade. Rather than just neglecting his “responsibilities” he is working hard to sort out the existential morass he finds himself in after his war experience.

What, if anything, is Maugham trying to tell us about materialism? Materialism is widely and roundly criticized- to the point that the term is essentially pejorative. Indeed, I myself am very critical of materialism as a philosophy, if by that one means the preeminence of pursuit of wealth and material possessions. As a practical matter, it seems that an awful lot of people live their lives in a materialistic way, and the pursuit of nobler or “higher” objectives runs the risk of fanaticism, foolishness, and willful ignorance. We all know wealthy people who are very unhappy. Did Isabel and Larry choose well? Intrigued to follow where the story leads

Isabel and Larry both represent the extremes of spiritualistic vs materialistic approach towards life, their philosophies never intersect, but the book is plot driven and not philosophy driven.

Personally, I think a balance between the two approaches is appropriate , this balance between the Spiritual attainment of satisfaction (happiness) and materialistic gain of satisfaction (happiness) is very well described by Hesse in Siddhartha, it is amazing that Hesse has dealt with this 'heavy' theme in such a simple and short work.

Steve wrote: “What, if anything, is Maugham trying to tell us about materialism? Materialism is widely and roundly criticized—to the point that the term is essentially pejorative. Indeed, I myself am very criti...”

I hope the novel’s treatment of this question gains some complexity. I’m just beginning Part 3 now, and at the moment it’s mostly a dichotomy between the vapid materialism of Elliott/Isabel and the contemplative poverty of Larry. The author himself seems to be one of the few people straddling the line.

Sure, we all know there are unhappy rich people in the world. But if we step outside romantic predispositions, most of the evidence points the other way—material wealth allows space for a lot more happiness, and even more fulfillment, than does poverty. (A recent meta-study showed that for 80% of the population, happiness rises proportionally with wealth, and this accelerates beyond annual incomes of $100k.)

Even Larry’s supposed poverty is really a pretty bourgeois version of it—anyone who was really struggling financially wouldn’t have time to wile away the hours in abstract philosophical ecstasy. He wouldn’t be living that life if he weren’t able to live off the remnants of someone else’s financial achievement.

I’m not saying he should give it up and go take a mind-numbing job with Gray Maturin. The problem is that that seems to be the dichotomy the book sets up. As much as I envy the way he’s spending his time, I don’t think there’s anything particularly virtuous about it.

I think I’m with you, Nidhi—I’d like to see more of a balance. There’s still plenty of time for it, and I’m enjoying the book, but thus far it’s pretty lopsided. You have prompted me to add Siddhartha to my TBR, by the way.

Siddhartha is a very good book. At one point Elliot suggests he has made compromise between God and mammon, which although humorous seems to pretty heavily favor mammon. Not sure what to make of Elliot’s Catholicism. Is it a balm to his overweaning worldliness? Is it purely a means to further his social climbing? Could it be an indication that his philosophy has some hidden depth, buried under his thin veneer of snobbishness?

I just finished Part 6. The section was very thought provoking for me. The nature of enlightenment, the infinite Absolute, the persistence of the problem of evil, the self with regard to attainment, perfection, and selflessness. I’m reminded a little of St. Paul’s testimony, “It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.” It is interesting to me that Maugham would set the climax of this search in India, and I wonder if he felt that such a climax in western society would seem less presentable, or maybe it is his honest appraisal of Eastern mysticism providing a better entry into spiritualism.

Steve wrote: "Siddhartha is a very good book. At one point Elliot suggests he has made compromise between God and mammon, which although humorous seems to pretty heavily favor mammon. Not sure what to make of El..."

Nidhi and Steve, I quite liked Siddhartha too . . a wonderful book!

I just started yesterday, still mid-part one. In terms of Elliot's Catholicism, it's a good question. I don't think Elliot would be interested in it unless the "right" people liked it. He's too much of a snob to go against convention.

But at the same time, I wonder if it also fulfills a need for him. People have a need to believe in their own goodness, and as shallow as he is spiritually, he might need something to give him some cover in his own conception of himself.

This is just my personal feeling though. I don't see anything in the text yet that explicitly says why.

Nice to have you back Greg ! I am looking forward to know your thoughts on this book, whenever you finish it.

Nidhi wrote: "Nice to have you back Greg ! I am looking forward to know your thoughts on this book, whenever you finish it."

Thanks Nidhi! :)

Ditto what Nidhi said.

Steve wrote: "Ditto what Nidhi said."

Thanks Steve! :) I read this one so long ago that it's almost like a fresh read for me.

I'm really enjoying this read! Fairly sedate pacing, but the style feels so smooth and effortless. Everything is set out carefully . . . such as at the dinner party in the first part, where only the key characters are given names; everything is easy to follow without any sudden lurches in perspective or fracturing of the text. After reading a number of more modern novels, I'm enjoying the "classic" feel. It's a nice change.

Finished the second part. There's some humor in here that I didn't remember in the ways that people who are fundamentally different get frustrated or confused or misunderstand each other. Still finding it very engaging.

The book is complex where human nature, emotions and behaviour is concerned, that is why there is disscusion. Author has given much to ponder about.

Nidhi wrote: "The book is complex where human nature, emotions and behaviour is concerned, that is why there is disscusion. Author has given much to ponder about."

For sure Nidhi!

Agreed. This is the first Maugham book I’ve read, and it certainly makes me want to read more. I’ll probably give Of Human Bondage a go some time in the new year.

Of Human Bondage is Maugham's masterpiece and a very big book. I would suggest you to finish the book before forming an opinion, you will not regret reading it.

spoko wrote: "Agreed. This is the first Maugham book I’ve read, and it certainly makes me want to read more. I’ll probably give Of Human Bondage a go some time in the new year."

I haven't read that one yet, though I've read a few others. Of those I've read, I liked the The Painted Veil best prior to this one.

I'll certainly read Of Human Bondage someday! Several of my friends have pointed to that as their favorite; I think you're in good company there Nidhi!

My professor recommended me this book when I was an undergraduate but the length of the book intimidated me. Last year it became quarterly read of a group and I got the opportunity to read with that group.
I have observed that all books by Maugham has completely different themes.