Classics and the Western Canon discussion

Here’s the reading and discussion schedule for The Song of Hiawatha:

Week 1 — Oct. 11— Introduction, Books I-IV
Week 2 — Oct. 18— Books V-IX
Week 3 — Oct. 25 — Books X-XIII
Week 4 — Nov. 1 — Books XIV-XVII
Week 5 — Nov. 8 — Books XVIII-XXII and the book as a whole

There are numerous editions. I’m reading the Dover Thrift Edition. The only drawback is that it doesn’t have any notes or the vocabulary list, but the vocabulary list is available online: https://englishverse.com/poems/hiawat...

I also found an inexpensive Kindle version from 1911 with some illustrations by Frederic Remington, N. C. Wyeth, and Maxfield Parrish to enjoy.

To appreciate the verbal music of the poem, an audio-version may be helpful. I’m enjoying the Audible rendition by William Hootkins, and there are other readings available on YouTube and elsewhere.

A free download is also available on Gutenberg:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19/19...

Tamara wrote: "A free download is also available on Gutenberg:

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19/19..."

Thanks, Tamara! It also can be read online here: https://www.hwlongfellow.org/poems_po...

I have brought from my local second-hand bookshop a lovely 1968 reprint of the 1890 edition. It is illustrated by Remington with both in-text illustrations and full-page plates and I'm really looking forward to start reading it today.

Emil wrote: "I have brought from my local second-hand bookshop a lovely 1968 reprint of the 1890 edition. It is illustrated by Remington with both in-text illustrations and full-page plates and I'm really looki..."

Same edition I have gotten from my second-hand bookshop site! So beautiful!

Emil wrote: "I have brought from my local second-hand bookshop a lovely 1968 reprint of the 1890 edition. It is illustrated by Remington with both in-text illustrations and full-page plates and I'm really looki..."

It sounds like you and Monica are enjoying a beautiful edition!

Here’s a sample for anyone who is curious about the Remington illustrations (from Book VI, Hiawatha’s Friends) https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...

Another illustration — this one is a painting by N. C, Wyeth used for a frontispiece for Hiawatha: https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-.... (From Book VII, Hiawatha’s Sailing).

If you’re seeing references in the comments to “trochaic tetrameter” and wondering what the heck that is, it describes the meter/beat that Longfellow used when composing Hiawatha.

It’s not necessary to know about meter to enjoy the poem, but some people enjoy looking at those details, so here’s a quick guide to basic English metrics for anyone who is interested : https://www.litcharts.com/literary-de....

Pearl-Feather, the magician Hiawatha battles in Book IX, is armored in wampum. Here are some pictures of beautiful wampum belts:
https://www.oneidaindiannation.com/wa...
https://ecampusontario.pressbooks.pub...

Susan wrote: "If you’re seeing references in the comments to “trochaic tetrameter” and wondering what the heck that is, it describes the meter/beat that Longfellow used when composing Hiawatha.

It’s not necess..."

Good idea, Susan. I came upon a site explaining the "trochaic tetrameter" used in the poem just by chance, so it is definitely very helpful to keep this reference material organized in here.

Hedge-hogs and Porcupines — The hedge-hog in Hiawatha must be a porcupine, because true hedge-hogs aren’t native to North America. And there’s no evidence that porcupines throw their quills, although they do shed them: https://blogs.massaudubon.org/yourgre.... I bet Hiawatha knew that, although the author didn’t ;)

Some of the sounds of Hiawatha:

Wawonaissa (whippoorwill) singing: https://youtu.be/5xso5D5DRt8?si=FGyMJ...

“Music as of birds afar off,
Of the whippoorwill afar off,
Of the lonely Wawonaissa
Singing in the darksome forest” (Book XII)

Shuh-shuh-gah (blue heron) calling: https://youtube.com/shorts/b4TqiwJ3XT...

“Till the heron, the Shuh-shuh-gah,
Crying from the desolate marshes,
Tells us that the day is ended.” (Book V)

In this week’s reading, there were a couple Ojibwe words that weren’t included in the vocabulary list (“pamosaid” and “wagemin”). (Longfellow almost always pairs the English equivalent with the Ojibwe word, so this shouldn’t get in the way of reading the poem.)

Google reveals there are 14 Ojibwe words used in the poem that are not included in the vocabulary list. FYI, here they are:

ahmo — “bee”
kabeyun —“West-Wind”
manito — “guardian spirit”
medamin —“art of healing”
Mitche Manito — “Great Spirit”
muskoday — “meadow”
nawadaha — “musician”
ojeeg — “weasel”
pamosaid — “corn-thief”
pukwana — “smoke”
sebowisha — “rivulet”
wagemin — “corn-thief”
wahonowin — “wail”
waywassimo— “lightening”

Susan wrote: "Some of the sounds of Hiawatha:

Wawonaissa (whippoorwill) singing..."

Thank you very much for this post, Susan. Actually, my main problem with vocabulary so far is because of all these birds and plants mentioned. Way out of my "regular" readings. This whippoorwill is a perfect example as I had never seen this word before and I just understood that it was some kind of bird. Now I have a good idea of what it looks like and how it sounds.

Monica wrote: "Susan wrote: "Some of the sounds of Hiawatha:

Wawonaissa (whippoorwill) singing..."

Thank you very much for this post, Susan. Actually, my main problem with vocabulary so far is because of all t..."

I’m glad the info was helpful. I crack up every time the Shuh-shuh-gah ends the day with its most unmelodious squawk. ;)

For those who are interested, here’s some general background on the Ojibwe game of bowl and counters (Pugasaing) described in Book XVI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugasaing

This link has drawings of what the counters looked like: https://books.google.com/books?id=dCZ...

Here’s a picture by artist Thomas Moran of the Pictured Rocks of Lake Superior, the area where Hiawatha is set: https://collections.gilcrease.org/obj...

For those who are interested, here’s a little background on Ojibwe picture writing:

http://temagami.nativeweb.org/ojibway... (Drawings of pictograph symbols)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ojibwe_... (Very little on the pictographs, but a nice picture of 1849 treaty with explanation)

https://mpt.pbslearningmedia.org/reso... (A video on pictographs and constellations as well as Ojibwe culture)

Another of the birds of Hiawatha:

Video of brant (a kind of goose) swimming, honking, and flying: https://youtu.be/iESrfRtk0QI?si=SHe4O...

Susan, I'm really enjoying all these links you're sharing with us. The pictograph symbols look very similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics. And the video of the brant splashing about in the water is delightful.
Thank you for sharing all these wonderful links.

Tamara wrote: "Susan, I'm really enjoying all these links you're sharing with us. The pictograph symbols look very similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics. And the video of the brant splashing about in the water is del..."

I’m glad you’re enjoying the links. Longfellow does a great job describing the pictographs, I think, but it adds something to my understanding to see the drawings

Susan wrote: "For those who are interested, here’s a little background on Ojibwe picture writing:..."

Thank you very much for your links, Susan. The first one is very useful as we can actually see many of the symbols described in Book XIV. It helps me a lot also to see its representations instead of just their description.

Because of my Japanese studies, I am particularly fond of writing systems based upon pictographics. In some Japanese ideograms, it is very easy to see the pictographics but some of them evolved along time and now they seem very abstract when we look at them.

BTW, I have just noticed that Goodreads is celebrating "Native American Heritage Month Reads", there is a list of suggested books that may be interesting.

Monica wrote: "BTW, I have just noticed that Goodreads is celebrating "Native American Heritage Month Reads", there is a list of suggested books that may be interesting."

Thanks, Monica, that’s good to know. Here’s a link to the list of books: https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/2...

“The White Man’s Foot” —

For anyone who is interested, here’s some background with pictures of “The White Man’s Foot” aka the plantain. As explained in the poem, this plant was so associated with the white settlers that it was called “The White Man’s Foot” by Native Americans: https://awkwardbotany.com/2015/05/13/...

There’s more background here on why “The White Man’s Foot” or plantain was valued and how it was used: https://wssa.net/wp-content/themes/WS...

Here are some pictures/background on the calumet peace pipes:

https://www.uprrmuseum.org/uprrm/exhi...

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collect... (the stem and bowl are shown separately)

Susan wrote: "“The White Man’s Foot” —

For anyone who is interested, here’s some background with pictures of “The White Man’s Foot” aka the plantain. As explained in the poem, this plant was so associated with ..."

Thank you very much, Susan. I had no idea what the plant actually look alike. It does not seem to be very common in Brazil.

Monica wrote: ". I had no idea what the plant actually look alike. It does not seem to be very common in Brazil."

How interesting! Plantains are very common where I live in the eastern USA. In fact, I just noticed one growing in my lawn ;). I wonder why they didn’t catch on in Brazil.

FYI, I’ve read that (just as the poem says) honey bees were also introduced to North America by European settlers. Prior to their arrival, native species were the primary pollinators.

Is Hiawatha an epic? And what is an epic anyway?

For definitions, I checked my usual two sources on poetic forms.

Babette Deutsch in “Poetry Handbook: A Dictionary of Terms” defines an epic as “A narrative poem, noble in conception and style, which treats of a series of heroic exploits or significant events and usually centers upon the adventures and accomplishments of one hero, such as Odysseus in the Odyssey.”

In “The New Book of Forms: A Handbook of Poetics,” Lewis Turco states “There are a number of narrative poems, the chief of which is the EPIC, a long heroic verse narrative. Another important long form is the ROMANCE—a long lyric verse narrative.” He goes on to discuss the BALLAD, the FABLIAU, the LAY, the EPYLLION, the BEAST EPIC, the FABLE, the CHANSON DE GESTE, the EXEMPLUM. and the CHANT ROYAL, all narrative poems that tell a story, long or short.

Wikipedia also offers a definition of epic poetry: “ An epic poem, or simply an epic, is a lengthy narrative poem typically about the extraordinary deeds of extraordinary characters who, in dealings with gods or other superhuman forces, gave shape to the mortal universe for their descendants.”

In addition to the definitions above, I think an epic poem is more than just about a hero performing extraordinary deeds. I think epic poems reveal something about the culture and value system from which they sprang. Gilgamesh tells us something about Ancient Mesopotamia; Beowulf about the Anglo-Saxons; the Odyssey and Iliad about Ancient Greece; Hiawatha about Native Americans, etc.

I agree with Susan that epic poems follow a specific format and I also agree with Tamara that (at least for me) epic poems are very important litterary works that help us to understand their original culture. Either because the hero has all the ideal characteristics (for this people) either because the story itself is a long list of people's history or accomplishments.

So, in this sense, I would say that "The song of Hiawatha" entered in my list of epic poems.

Shouldn't an epic have a single story, with a beginning, middle, and end, rather than a series of episodes?

Roger wrote: "Shouldn't an epic have a single story, with a beginning, middle, and end, rather than a series of episodes?"

At first thought, it seems to me that some of the epic poems I know might do both these things. For example, The Odyssey is the story of Odysseus’ travels home from Troy, so it has a beginning and an end, but much of what happens in between seems to be a series of episodes. (And of course, the story of Odysseus’s travels isn’t narrated in a straightforward way. The story starts in the middle).
But perhaps you had a particular epic poem(s) in mind as the exemplar(s) of this definition?

Susan wrote: "Roger wrote: "Shouldn't an epic have a single story, with a beginning, middle, and end, rather than a series of episodes?"

At first thought, it seems to me that some of the epic poems I know might..."

The Iliad. The Aeneid. The Divine Comedy. Paradise Lost.

For me, Paradise Lost and the Iliad might be the examples that best fit the idea of a single story with a beginning, middle, and end instead of a series of episodes. (The Aeneid seems very similar to the Odyssey in having a middle that is a series of episodes). The Divine Comedy is definitely included on lists of epic poems, but is the protagonist heroic? I might argue his biggest act of heroism was writing the three poems versus anything else he actually does. (I’m rereading it now so my opinion is definitely subject to change).