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Jane Eyre
2022/23 Group Reads - Archive
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Jane Eyre 2023 Week 3: Oct 15-21: Ch 15-19
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I think the "play" Bronte uses between Ingram and Jane is very interesting. Is Charlotte describing her personal feelings about herself via Jane?
’ I thought there were excellent materials in him; though for the present they hung together somewhat spoiled and tangled. I cannot deny that I grieved for his grief, whatever that was, and would have given much to assuage it.I would normally concur about the selfish, domineering and altogether disrespectful attitude of the majority of nineteenth century aristocratic gentlemen towards women of all classes, but I agreed with Jane’s early deliberations (as in the quote above) on Rochester, before she became completely besotted and began to overlook all his faults.
Both Jane and Rochester are an odd and unlikely couple but, from the moment they met, forces which neither of them can fully understand are driving them closer and closer together. These chapters seem to me to describe the fantasy world they are both experiencing whilst living out their real lives as governess and landed gentry.
Jane’s efforts to convince herself that Rochester can never mean anything more than an employer to her become increasingly futile.
’ I looked, and had an acute pleasure in looking,—a precious yet poignant pleasure; pure gold, with a steely point of agony: a pleasure like what the thirst-perishing man might feel who knows the well to which he has crept is poisoned, yet stoops and drinks divine draughts nevertheless.’
And Rochester’s return to Thornfield with his aristocratic cronies, insisting that Jane was in the drawing room each night, was surely one enormous charade that dwarfed ‘Bridewell’ to almost insignificance. That it was all for Jane’s benefit was proven beyond doubt by the disguised ‘traveller’ that Rochester designed just for her. Unfortunately he couldn’t quite carry it off, being so overwhelmed by Jane’s presence and her reaction.
Often described as haughty, rough and even a ‘fierce falcon,’ once again Rochester had to seek the aid of Jane when she spoke of the the newcomer to his house, Mr. Mason…..
’ “Do you feel ill, sir?” I inquired. “Jane, I’ve got a blow; I’ve got a blow, Jane!” He staggered. “Oh, lean on me, sir.” “Jane, you offered me your shoulder once before; let me have it now.” “Yes, sir, yes; and my arm.”
Rochester’s obvious fear required all Jane’s strength to support him and his secret burden. Rochester’s fantasy life came crashing down at that moment with the reality of this stranger and with it all his strength. And who was there but the diminutive but courageous Jane to help steady and revive his senses.
I think Rochester is not a very realistic character. Jane feels like a real person, but Rochester just seem ‘made up’. Maybe Brontë based Jane on her own life and experiences, but didn’t know how to write a male character as well.
The scene where he dresses as the gypsy woman was so bizarre. I don’t know any man who would do that. 🤷🏻♀️
Miss Ingram is just a spoiled, snooty brat. I’m sure there were many young ladies just as pretentious and condescending as she is. Brontë most certainly came into contact with some of them when she was a governess.
I find Adele annoying - her character seems to serve no purpose. Of course if she didn’t exist Jane would have no reason to be at Rochester’s house.
I know Jane is attracted to Rochester, but I think this is because there are no other men. If she had other options, she would have chosen someone else. He’s just too weird.
As the reader I enjoyed being able to compare and contrast my knowledge of Jane with that of Rochester’s aristocratic visitors. It served to confirm the absolute yawning gulf between the classes as well as the insensitive disregard, probably experienced by Charlotte Brontë herself, towards governesses and people of lower status.For example, when Rochester tells Jane about Adèle’s life story and puts to her that she probably would not want to continue teaching her, Jane’s reply is exquisite.
’ “No: Adèle is not answerable for either her mother’s faults or yours: I have a regard for her; and now that I know she is, in a sense, parentless—forsaken by her mother and disowned by you, sir—I shall cling closer to her than before. How could I possibly prefer the spoilt pet of a wealthy family, who would hate her governess as a nuisance, to a lonely little orphan, who leans towards her as a friend?”
Later, after the house party had arrived, Jane had to suffer treatment such as this from a woman who is expected to be looked up to.
’ One of the gentlemen, Mr. Eshton, observing me, seemed to propose that I should be asked to join them; but Lady Ingram instantly negatived the notion. “No,” I heard her say: “she looks too stupid for any game of the sort.”
I like Mr. Rochester so far. He is blustery and aloof but he could be worse. At least he's not evil or punishing.
Mod
That's really well put, and yes they both seem to inhabit a fantasy world, but it is one that they perhaps believe they can make for themselves while living cut off from the rest of the world in Thornfiled Hall. Once Rochester brings in other society, we see the fantasy they are building slam up against the reality of the gulf between them and how they are each viewed by the outside world.
Mod
Maybe Brontë based Jane on her own life and experiences, but didn’t know how ..."
I wonder if Rochester feels made up to us because the life of a Victorian aristocrat is so different from what most of us would be living or would encounter. A man could get away with being the most eccentric and/or inappropriate character as long as he had enough money to smooth the way for himself. So I agree that Rochester's actions are bizarre, but I can imagine .his character dressing up to find out what his possible intended bride(s) really thought, how they treated their inferiors, how they would react to a suggestion (such as the one to Miss Ingram that he may not in fact be rich). He is clearly playing cat-and-mouse with Jane, but she seems able to protect herself.
Mod
Yes her response to his comment on Adèle is striking, and a stark contrast to Blanche Ingram's suggesting that she be sent away to school.
Blanche and Jane are such stark contrasts. With Blanche so self-obsessed and selfish, and Jane being kind and loyal. It feels to me like Rochester plays Blanche every bit as she does him, a test to see just how selfish she is. It's as though he's punishing himself, that he doesn't deserve the kindness and loyalty Jane offers. And equally, he's testing Jane's resolve, to see if this loathsome version of him will destroy her romantic image of him. This could account for why he wants Jane in the room; he wants her to witness every painful moment and twist the knife so that she backs off and makes the decision for him, that all he deserves is the dreadful Blanche. The whole thing with the gypsy disguise is bizarre- but I liked him for the fact that he made the other two girls (Mary and ?) laugh. That shows a certain self-awareness, consideration, and sense of humor that was hitherto hidden...or perhaps that is the author's idea, to hint at an unseen side to him.
Mod
I think it is also important to see that Blanche is everything society admires-even Mrs Fairfax admires her (or did before she came for an extended visit)-and Jane is a poor, plain, nobody. So Jane's trying to "cure" herself is harsh, but she is realistic in her compare and contrast-although not understanding that Rochester has apparently found qualities in her that he admires and makes him want to spend time with her.
Frances wrote: "Pippa wrote: "Blanche and Jane are such stark contrasts. With Blanche so self-obsessed and selfish, and Jane being kind and loyal. It feels to me like Rochester plays Blanche every bit as she does ..."Oh, yes. I get that. It's more that Rochester is unconventional and for him, settling for what society admires would be ironic. Or perhaps that's the romantic in me ;-)
Mr. Rochester seems to be playing a game with Jane that is very unfair. He wants her in the company of his snobbish guests and openly flirts with Blanche in front of her. In his disguise as a gypsy woman, he takes the opportunity to fault her for not reaching out for true love, showing his complete lack of understanding of the difficult position she is in as his employee. He is in the position of strength here; after the night of the fire, he must have some inkling that Jane is attracted to him, as he is to her; but he continues to expect her to make the first move. Frustrating.
Frances wrote: "A man could get away with being the most eccentric and/or inappropriate character as long as he had enough money to smooth the way for himself..."I think this is true of any century. It's true for men and women. You can be as eccentric as you like, as long as you are rich.
Rochester does feel unrealistic to me, but not because he is rich or eccentric.
Chapter 15 gives us the complete record of the parentage of Adèle-she could be Mr Rochester’s illegitimate daughter, or that of his former mistress and another man. The second half of the chapter brings strange noises in the corridor, outside Jane’s bedroom, and worse, a fire in Mr Rochester’s bedroom, from which Jane saves him by judicious use of his own and her washing water. There is an obvious intimacy between them both from the situation and then strengthened by Rochester’s strange reaction to the fire and to Jane’s part in the rescue, and by the end of the chapter Jane has admitted to herself and to the reader that she loves her employer.
Chapter 16 shows the departure of Mr Rochester with no word or explanation to Jane either of the fire or his neglecting to fire Grace Poole, and we see Jane’s determination to quench her feelings for Rochester, particularly as she learns that he may be courting Blanche Ingram.
Chapter 17 brings a large party to Thornfield Hall, including Miss Ingram. Adèle is thrilled, and wishes to spend as much time as possible with these elegant people. Mr Rochester insists that Jane and Adèle join them each evening in the drawing room, affording Jane the opportunity to observe them all.
Chapter 18 gives us further time to get to know the guests, and we realize that Miss Ingram is a proud, unpleasant young woman who treats Adèle, Jane, and the other servants with obvious contempt and rudeness. One evening, when Rochester has been called away on business, there is the arrival of an old friend of Rochester’s from the West Indies, and later a gypsy woman appears who offers to tell the fortunes of the young ladies, which Miss Ingram insists on doing. The chapter ends as Jane, the last of the young ladies, is called in to have her fortune told.
Chapter 19 has Jane receiving a most peculiar fortune, finding out that the “gypsy” is in fact Mr Rochester in disguise and that he, among other things, has suggested to Miss Ingram that she examine his fortune carefully before agreeing to marry him. Again, Rochester’s demeanour and words to Jane implies his affection and interest in her. When he is informed of the arrival of Mr Mason he is clearly alarmed. Yet the evening seems to end well.
What do you think of Rochester’s actions towards Jane, and his obvious flirtation/wooing behaviour towards Miss Ingram?
Jane has become clear in her own feelings towards her employer, and has made plans both to overcome these feelings by mortifying herself in comparison to Miss Ingram, and for her future in possibly running her own school elsewhere. What do you think of these plans?
What did you make of the scene where the guests are discussing their horror stories of governesses, in front of Rochester’s governess? Brontë had been a governess and school teacher herself, and had likely nursed an unrequited love for an employer, the headmaster at a school where she taught. How realistically do you think she has incorporated her own experiences into this novel?
Please share your thoughts about this section so far. Also, please remember not to give spoilers for later sections for those reading for the first time.