The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

We have come to the central portion of the book-the declaration of love between these two mismatched characters-Edward Rochester, owner of a large estate, 40-ish, worldly-wise, well-travelled, used to ruling his domain, and Jane Eyre, 18, a penniless governess with no family, who has never ventured outside her childhood home, her school, and Rochester's estate.

First, though, we have the strange episode of the assault on James Mason and his subsequent departure from the house, then we have Jane's departure from Thornfield Hall to attend the death of her Aunt Reed, and her news of an uncle now residing in Madeira, then Jane's return to Thornfield Hall, her peculiar reception by Rochester, her learning of Rochester's impending marriage to Miss Ingram, and then their most strange interlude in the garden, in which he forces a confession from her that she will miss him most of all on moving to Ireland, and finally his proposal.

What did you make of the episode of Jane's return to Gateshead, of the fate of the family there, and of Mrs Reed's behaviour towards Jane on her deathbed?

The dynamic and the conversations between Jane and Rochester are, to my mind, brilliantly written. What do you think of Rochester's ongoing deceptions-pretending he will be marrying Miss Ingram, that he has found a distant post for Jane, and then confessing his true feelings? What do you think of Jane's responses to all of the above-does she remain true to her own principles and self, or is she manipulated by him into doing things she would not have countenanced on her own?

Based on the above, will they be able to reach a happily-ever-after, or will Jane's description of his rapidly waning love come true?

What did you think of Jane's insistence on their maintaining their usual pattern of behaviour, barring an evening together as an affianced couple?

Please share your thoughts on this section, remembering to hide or leave out spoilers for first-time readers.

It is a relief to have both Jane and Rochester proclaim their love; however, he again plays games with her. He says he is going to marry Miss Ingram and that he has found a position for Jane in Ireland, both of which are subsequently revealed to be lies. Why can the man not simply say, "I love you; I don't want you to leave; I want you to marry me." There is one moment in the book that I find unbelievable: given the opportunity to ask Mr. Rochester a question which he promises to answer truthfully (Chapter 24), Jane askes him questions about Miss Ingram instead of asking for the truth of what the devil is going on in the attic. She knows that there is a dangerous inhabitant there who set probably set Mr. Rochester's bedroom on fire and who definitely stabbed Mr. Mason. This is her best chance to discover the truth, but she blinds herself to it for some reason that I can't fathom.

Nancy I completely agree with you.
I don’t know why Rochester plays all these mind game with Jane and lies to her. It was very obvious that she liked him. There was no need to keep testing her. I don’t necessarily feel bad for Miss Ingram, but it’s not fair to her either. No one likes to be mislead or used just to make another person jealous.

Did you guys find the proposal scene romantic?
I’m not sure how I feel about it.
I know it’s a famous scene, some people compare it to the Mr Darcy scene in Pride and Prejudice.
I think Brontë must have been a romantic person, but in my opinion Jane Austen writes romance way better.

By the way, is Rochester really 40?
I must have missed that. For some reason I thought he was 30.
Don’t get me wrong, I like older men.
I think 30 and 18 is a big enough age difference.
40 and 18 may be a bit too much.

The attic situation is extremely bizarre and creepy. I would definitely want to know what was going on up there. I mean what kind of creature bites people and tries to drain their blood? A vampire?
Was this considered a gothic element?

Speaking of evil creatures, Jane’s aunt is a total witch. Hiding the letter for 3 years was a really messed up thing to do. At least she comes clean before she dies. Super convenient to have a rich uncle all of sudden. Especially one with no other heirs who wants to leave you all his money.

Ana wrote: "By the way, is Rochester really 40?
I must have missed that. For some reason I thought he was 30.
Don’t get me wrong, I like older men.
I think 30 and 18 is a big enough age difference.
40 and 18 may be a bit too much.
.."

I went back and checked-I found Jane's initial description of him as "around 35" and later Mrs Fairfax describes him as being "nearly 40" so I went with the latter as i assumed she would know. in any case, a 15-20 year age difference.

’ “Well, I feigned courtship of Miss Ingram, because I wished to render you as madly in love with me as I was with you; and I knew jealousy would be the best ally I could call in for the furtherance of that end.”

There is no doubt that Rochester was a troubled individual and, for me, his antics leading up to his proposal to Jane boldly underlined the anxieties in his life. His haughty, sometimes fierce and often unpredictable behaviour screened deep seated insecurities. The outgoing, genial bravado that he practiced with his contemporaries was a mask hiding the real Rochester. It had no real effect on Jane except to confirm the pretence to her during those nightly observations with his cronies and he knew it.

So although Rochester realised that Jane had an affection for him he really was not sure and couldn’t convince himself that she loved him.

The whole house party event was a charade conducted by Rochester, an elaborate ploy finally leading up to the quiet, peaceful evening in the garden with Jane, surrounded by nature.

However, it was almost cruel of him to subject Jane to that prolonged jealousy test. A braver man would have done as Nancy suggested and asked Jane straight out. But Rochester’s insecurities got the better of him, probably because he couldn’t face yet another disappointment in his life.

Whilst the environment of the garden was romantic, both of the lovers acted in an awkward and clumsy fashion, neither of them were suited to love making in the expected ways. Rochester treated Jane unfairly before revealing his true feelings and Jane was just too overcome with emotion to respond in the way she wanted to.

There was also a great contrast between the beginning, middle and end of the garden scene. The meeting of the two in the secluded, tree shrouded parkland seemed to begin and end ominously, almost supernaturally.

’ As I crossed his shadow, thrown long over the garden by the moon, not yet risen high, he said quietly, without turning— “Jane, come and look at this fellow.” I had made no noise: he had not eyes behind—could his shadow feel? I started at first, and then I approached him.’

And at the end, as they left the area and turned towards the house, from the tranquil beauty of a darkening natural panorama there sprung a violent storm, savage enough to destroy the mighty tree that the two lovers had been sitting under just minutes before.

Yet again, there seemed to be a quasi gothic element introduced to disturb the lovers as it intermingled with their joyful revelations to each other.

What did you make of the episode of Jane's return to Gateshead, of the fate of the family there, and of Mrs Reed's behaviour towards Jane on her deathbed?

I think this is closure for Jane of her tormented past. Mrs. Reed's behavior didn't surprise me. It was typical of the desperate women she portrayed. The fate of the family was satisfying. They got what they deserved.

What do you think of Rochester's ongoing deceptions-pretending he will be marrying Miss Ingram, that he has found a distant post for Jane, and then confessing his true feelings? What do you think of Jane's responses to all of the above-

In these scenes, I think Ms. Bronte elegantly depicts the norms and values of English society at the time the novel is placed.

Francis wrote: "What did you make of the episode of Jane's return to Gateshead, of the fate of the family there, and of Mrs Reed's behaviour towards Jane on her deathbed?

I think this is closure for Jane."

Yes, I agree with you Francis.

On reaching Gateshead once more, the memories of her time there as a child came flooding back, but she was a changed person.

’ I still felt as a wanderer on the face of the earth; but I experienced firmer trust in myself and my own powers, and less withering dread of oppression. The gaping wound of my wrongs, too, was now quite healed; and the flame of resentment extinguished.’

I think Jane went back to Gateshead with reconciliation in mind. Even though she was badly wronged by the whole family, Jane’s willingness to forgive them or at least show politeness and respect, shone like a beacon to me and showed how her character had developed.

Throughout her stay her maturity as a young woman and the way she dealt with all those at Gateshead contrasted greatly with her attitude as a child when she left the place nine years before.

The way the two sisters came to depend on Jane only emphasised how much better a person Jane had become compared to them. And almost to her aunt’s dying breath, Jane was trying to show her that she was willing to put the past behind her. However all Jane’s efforts were in vain due to the huge chasm caused by her aunt’s unforgiving vanity and pride.

I thought that Jane, although probably distressed by John Reed’s early demise, might take some comfort from the way the bullying cousin turned out. It seems that she was treated by him in exactly the same way that he treated everyone else. She wasn’t singled out for abuse, John paid the price for his abuse of humanity.

Trev wrote: "’ “Well, I feigned courtship of Miss Ingram, because I wished to render you as madly in love with me as I was with you; and I knew jealousy would be the best ally I could call in for the furtheranc..."

I agree-they are awkward and clumsy-is this just a British/English thing-never wanting to admit you're in love until you are sure of the other person reciprocating? I think of the grand declarations of love and despair in french/spanish/Italian literature-it never seems as if anyone wants to hide anything.

Adria wrote: "the vampirism scenes clearly place the novel within the realm of gothic fiction."

Yes, the spooky attic and the very atmospheric writing does give it that flavour, at least up until this point.