Fantasy Buddy Reads discussion

This is a Buddy Read for Dune Messiah by Frank Herbert starting on February 10, 2024.


Happy Reading!

Thank you!

1. Dune (Jan 10) [link]
2. Dune Messiah (Feb 10)
3. Children of Dune (Mar 10) [link]
4. God Emperor of Dune (Apr 10) [link]
5. Heretics of Dune (May 10) [link]
6. Chapterhouse: Dune (Jun 10) [link]

If we feel like trying something different, then there's the Brian Herbert books too--though they're more like... an adventure D&D game in the Dune universe, with all the deeper stuff excised, or so I've heard. Could be popcorn fun though.

I am looking forward to it! I hope we get into the series enough, that we tackle more of the books in that universe...

I wouldn't even mind trying the Brian Herbert books, just with an understanding that they're going to be a very very different animal.

And from what I remember about the original Dune series--the books were just as compelling, but got really weird and sexual.

I don't mind. You know, as long as it's not predominantly horror, I am very open minded and accepting of different book approaches:)

^^ I'm looking forward to seeing how the sequel books hit me 25 years later. And I'm curious about the young Herbert's books--I enjoy surface-only swashbuckling adventure books just fine--but will it be too much of a contrast to the originals?

As for horror aspects... I honestly don't remember. There's some body horror in #3-4, I think... but otherwise it's been too long. Maybe some torture scenes?

Started! About 30% in and not feeling it as much as the first book--but then I really only just got to the fun parts, (view spoiler)[when the Duncan Idaho clone is introduced. It's interesting, on audio, it sounds like the name is "Hate" though I'm pretty sure it's not spelled like that... but audio does bring little tidbits out like that, doesn't it? Looked it up--"Hayt" it is... (hide spoiler)]

My expectations are low... and the shortness of the book seems crazy, compared to the rest of the series... sounds like an epilogue to the first book, before later books start doing bigger things and covering larger spans of time...

Lets do this... Scott Brick is immediately recognizable on audio...

He narrates Orphan X and Jack Reacher...

This is so short... almost 1/3 done already...

Nirkatze wrote: "^^ I'm looking forward to seeing how the sequel books hit me 25 years later. And I'm curious about the young Herbert's books--I enjoy surface-only swashbuckling adventure books just fine--but will ..."

Yea... I've seen some fanart of the (view spoiler)[God-Emperor worm hybrid... (hide spoiler)]

Finished...

This felt alot more straightforward than book 1... maybe that's because I'd spoiled a fair bit on reddit/youtube, in deciding to keep going with the series... also how short it is...

(view spoiler)[It was largely 2 prophetic groups fighting for control of the timeline... in the end, I think Paul came out ahead, but the Bene Geserit think they did...

Paul's life kinda sucked, in general, tho... so tragic... and now he's walked off into the sunset... (hide spoiler)]

Finished not long after I started yesterday, and agree with Iain's assessment--the first book is an epic bildungsroman and statement on the unreliability of prophets... this second book is more contained and compact... much fewer plotlines and hardly any knots... (view spoiler)[Paul achieved his goal--avoiding the great Jihad and working towards freedom from prophetic tyranny... but at the cost of everything personal...

If you stop Dune at book one, you can imagine Paul's story is a happy ending... but I do think you need to read book two in order to get the whole of Herbert's thesis. Definitely not a happy story... An interesting one though. Duncan Idaho gets a very interesting storyline for someone killed in the first third of the first book...

Alia also starts to get more to do in this book, even though she's still mostly sidelined....

This book definitely isn't as compelling as the first... (hide spoiler)]

It’s taken me a while to get into this one. I’m about 40% in.

Yeah, I agree... it took me a while to feel invested.

I am about 80 pages in... I know I am not mistaken, but just rechecking, were Tarot Cards mentioned at all in the previous book? It seems to me they are a new addition to the Bene Geserit Sisters are using here. I wonder how that works together with the spice that induces prophecy, maybe as an adjunct tool, or as a real guide?

(view spoiler)[ What is the purpose of The Gift of Duncan Idaho's clone Hayt? How could they take Paul down through him? I can't see how it would work, since he supposedly can't lie... The only way I can see it working is through Alia falling in love with him and the two of them betraying him somehow... I hope not though.

I still think the best part of these books are the observations on the Human Condition, mostly expressed in the overview of the political motivations and the motivations of regular folks to do horrible or extraordinary things... (hide spoiler)]

I think the idea was (view spoiler)[Paul would be unwilling to re-kill a friend/ally/etc, or something?... giving Hayt time to kill him, instead... (hide spoiler)]

Hmmm... That is a long shot, isn't it? Either way, apart from emotionally unsettling him into making major mistakes, all other plans would be long shots...

I am glad to see Alia wondering the same things as me, about the New Dune Tarot Cards... Which answered part of my initial question, if we had seen it before and I just missed it... I still think it's some type of BG's mass manipulation though...

Obviously, the main story line here is Paul's fight with Faith and Prophecy, trying to escape whatever was predicted about him and the Jihad in his name. However, he is obviously falling, if (view spoiler)[ Billions have been killed in a Jihad he didn't want but is the face of, and 9 planets have been sterilized!!!! WTF?!?!?! This is not a random number of lives, this is a genocide! How can he and his people be the good guys??? Obviously, again, that the author is sticking with his theme from book #1, where he pretty much told us to not give our fidelity and trust to charismatic leaders... He might want flowers and rainbows, but the path is horrifying!!! (hide spoiler)]

There was no mention of Dune tarot in the first book that I can recall. How tormented Paul and Alia are for being able to see visions of the future. And even with such knowledge they couldn’t completely manipulate events to change future outcomes.

That's the problem with future-sight... the more people have it, the less room there is to change anything, especailly when people are at cross-purposes...

The two of them are powerful, but still so tragic... The whole story is very compelling though...

Yes I agree, what more it’s interesting to read how the two of them have blind spots in their visions and wonder what the other one sees.

It’s funny what one remembers. I remember really enjoying this series but with this second read through the main plot I can recall but most of the details and minor characters seem new to me.

Iain and Crystal, you are so right! I am 80% in, just passed the almost religious ceremony of Alia's public prophetic Q&A... The two of them, P&A, are really prisoners of their prophetic visions... I guess the easiest way to ruin them, even better than finding a way to blind them to their visions, would be to control what they see in those visions, once you have determined the pattern in which they react to what they see...

Finished... This was soooo goooooddd!!! Better than the first one, in my opinion... (view spoiler)[ The Guild needs to pay for all the trouble they created, as well as the Sisters... I don't think there is a way for all the Fremen that turned against Paul to be punished, but I think the best part is that Paul himself got mostly what he deserved... Let's face it, for all of his good intentions, he was a scourge on the universe. His power and the way everyone started perceiving him as this G-d like figure, something he perpetuated, was bound to create as many enemies as followers. Charismatic leaders are always scary, for the potentiality of violence they create in their followers... His possible "riding into the sunset in the desert" is a perfect ending for him. I hope the author chooses for that to be the ending, of course...

Alia is also one of those characters, who you want to root for, but are too erratic for you to be comfortable with how they might turn out... Kind of like a wild animal, you have to be ready for them to try to bite your hand off...

I wish we had seen more from Jessica, but I am happy to know she is off planet and doing well. I wonder what Evil Grandpa Molester is doing...

I thought I would be more upset about the death of Paul's baby mother... I wasn't, maybe because we weren't given any other solution from the start, as far as she was concerned... I was more upset that his Imperial wife was colluding to kill him... Her regrets at the end were not enough for me...

Idaho, I wonder what will happen to him now... Really, I can't wait to find out what happens next!!! (hide spoiler)]

Loved it!

Glad you enjoyed, Choko! Love reading your recap and ideas. You liked it more than I, but your analysis makes me look at the story in another light.