The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

River East, River West by Aube Rey Lescure

Am I still the only one that's read this? I wasn't impressed...

Reviews do like pretty underwhelming so far

I started and then put it aside, pre-longlist. It's my intention to pick it back up now, but I'm not super excited to do so.

I'm half way through and enjoying it. The discussion about Brecht and the "alienation effect" I had not ever considered when watching Farewell My Concubine and this book has made me want to rewatch that movie. The style doesn't compare to Enright or Kilroy but I think it has plenty to say.

I finished this one this morning. It was not memorable at all to me and felt quite YA in its story-telling. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but I found one of the two main narrators to be unsympathetic as well.

I am trying to work out Cindy which one you found sympathetic - I am not liking either currently (but only half way through).

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I am trying to work out Cindy which one you found sympathetic - I am not liking either currently (but only half way through)."

Not telling GY!

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I am trying to work out Cindy which one you found sympathetic - I am not liking either currently (but only half way through)."

I also wondered! I disliked them both thoroughly by the end, plus Sloane.

I was actually impressed with the writing but all the characters (not just those three) are just so transactional in their relationships (everything is what can I get out of it)

My thoughts which riff somewhat around the novel’s working title (the alienation effect)

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I just finished this and thought the language and plotting were quite assured for a debut writer. The characterization left much to be desired, though, and I thought that the writer treated Sloane as a stereotype, as much as the locals see her as a stereotype. Her thought process and motivations were mystifyingly absent, for a main character. I hope this isn't marketed as a YA book - would be quite concerning if it was!

Aditi wrote: "I just finished this and thought the language and plotting were quite assured for a debut writer. The characterization left much to be desired, though, and I thought that the writer treated Sloane ..."

I agree and thought it was such a shame that the characters were all a bit one dimensional. I liked the writing, setting, themes and all the movie and Brecht references. The idea of a teen girl and her step father having to navigate a relationship is interesting to me. I put this one in the middle. I liked it enough to see how her next book goes.

Definitely not a book I'd choose to read but for it being on the longlist. But that said, it did hold my interest. I found Alva and Sloane difficult to take -- Sloane seemed to act as much like a self-centered teenager as Alva.

I found Lu Fang's story much more interesting than that of Sloane and Alva. It provided a look at life in China as it evolved under Communism. He also seemed to become a better person by the time he married Sloane.

I am going to share some thoughts here. We all have our secret indulgent pleasures. Books we dared not claim to love back when we read them due to their frowned on academic reputation. May I share one of mine with you? The book was California Generation by bestseller author Jacqueline Briskin. I happened to grab a copy at an airport (Airport novel!!) Before flying cross country and by the end of the flight I was engaged with a capital E in this novel. The novel was a kind of a Jacqueline Susann clone and pretty trashy but the key word in this ramble is engaging. And It stuck in my mind because of that for more than forty years.

And that brings us to River East, River West. I see this novel is getting some negative attention and I can see why but there is also a lot to like here. Aube Ray Lescure can write and has the multinational origin (French/Chinese/American) that helps give her the unique point of view but also lends literary influences from each national tradition. I was reading Eileen Chang for the first time and was surprised at the similarities. The Marguerite Duras influence is emphasized in the book and I think the U.S. cultural evidences are apparent.

But again I am avoiding what I am wanting to emphasize. The writing is engaging! Scenes are memorable. Characters though plagued with 20th century negative flaws, are interesting and balance off each other well. Compare them to the fractured family characters from The Bee Sting and I find these far more sympathetic and Lescure does not stoop to trying to ridicule them in the way Murray did. But mostly I found myself engaged despite the flaws. When I look back through my lifetime of reading, there is a host of flawed books that I have loved. I do not know how long this one will stay in my memory but it was a pleasant surprise for me this year.

Interesting comment as always, Sam. What is the Marguerite Duras connection? I’m suddenly interested in this one.

It’s a very intelligently written novel - it has more and geographically broader cultural references than anything else on the longlist and, at least from the comments here, than anything on the International Booker.

If anything lets it down it’s the characters - like others but unlike Sam I found them a little too obviously flawed/one dimensional. Bee Sting for me is a fairly low bar.

A key character Sloan (the Mum) explicitly takes much of her motivation and the role she plays in her life from a film version of Maguerite Duras’s “The Lover” “It's about a white girl in Asia and a Chinese man falling in love. Its set in colonial times. She was poor and he was a businessman. They don't end up together; they can't they know it could never be more than a fantasy. I thought, that's us. That’s me, that's Lu Fang. All these years I pictured myself as her, and I told Alva that's the one role I got in my life, a foreign woman who falls in love with a Chinese man but who is never chosen. Who will always be a foreigner —that was my lead role."

Brecht is also a key influence but more in a technique/effect that he borrowed from Chinese cinema.

David wrote: "Interesting comment as always, Sam. What is the Marguerite Duras connection? I’m suddenly interested in this one."

GY has politely answered for me and thanks for that. I also see Lescure echoing Duras by rewriting the "Lolita," theme as seen by men. From the way the author portrayed Alva, I felt it was easy to dislike and disapprove of the character early on yet by the novel's end the author gave her a vulnerability that I found sympathetic. This was also the case for Sloan and Lu Fang. If I were to make a case for Sloan, I would compare her to the character of Wanda in the film of that name by Barbara Loden. These characters were far more poplular in the films and books of the 20th century I think.

I am surprised at how badly River East, River West does in the dynamic rankings as I found it a really interesting read. It gave me a number of characters that are flawed in an interesting way. I liked not really linking but reluctantly understanding them. especially the murky feelings of ava resonated with me. Yes, the narrative is relatively conventional, but it worked really well - never would have guessed its a debut!

Anna wrote: "I am surprised at how badly River East, River West does in the dynamic rankings as I found it a really interesting read. It gave me a number of characters that are flawed in an interesting way. I l..."

The easy answer is --we need some book to dump on so why not this? But having praised the novel, I feel warranted to give some criticism that justifies the lower ranking. First, the book does get pretty melodramatic at times and it pushed my suspension of disbelief especially with Lu Fang's son. A second issue for me was the author's fictionalizing a real life person and event. It used to be an author could do this without most readers connecting the two but today one can access far more information. In the case of one "rooftopper," the fictional details were too close to the real in my estimation. I do not know how others felt.

There was not much subtlety in the sons story, I agree! But for a book tackling so many themes, I thought it did rather well at most. I actually did not know about the real-life rooftopper, so thank you for pointing that out.

I do get the need for a book to complain about - I just thought that at least what I have read from the shortlist so far was not so much better that it justified the loud criticism. :)

I agree Anna. Four stars from me.

To be fair I've been complaining about this one since I first read it back in January, so nothing to do with the WP :)

I don't think it's an awful book. Lescure is a competent writer and may well go on to write something much better. But I felt that it lacked soul. Funnily enough, the only bits I connected with were actually the rooftopper's and Lu Fang's son's stories.

I had never heard of rooftopping or rooftoppers. I found the book entertaining and thought Lu Fang the best developed character.

I finally finished this book. I almost gave up at about 70% as I found the characters so frustrating - I also find books about teenage angst very difficult to read. However, after a break I continued and am glad I did and I felt the ending was quite strong.

I enjoyed exploring the concept of the reversal of the east- west immigration story; and I enjoyed reading Lu Fangs narrative. I agree with some of the comments above that some events which were not well fleshed out (lu fangs relationship with his son and wife for example).

A 4 star read for me and probably in the middle of the shortlist rankings. only one more to read....

Given my and others comments on the characters and my comments on every relationship (even as acted out by minor characters) being for so much of the book purely transactional I was fascinated by her Women’s Prize Shortlist Book Club interview.

She described the characters as deeply morally flawed and complex.

She alsosaid that the novel very much started from a place of the characters all being obsessed with “transactionality” (her choice of words) in relationships but as she developed it she felt the characters found a way to move beyond this in relations partly despite themselves.

that corresponds with how I read the novel. The discovery of non-transactional emotion made this more interesting the longer I read!

I would have preferred a few minor characters who were less transactional earlier in - eg the old school friend

Susan what do you still have left.

Brotherless Night...I have quite high expectations. I am on a months holiday in Europe at present so reading less than normal. Maybe on my flight from Athens to Madrid.

Brotherless Night...I have quite high expectations. I am on a months holiday in Europe at present so reading less than normal. Maybe on my flight from Athens to Madrid.

I thought this was interesting but too long. Could all have sped up a bit for me.

It needed to flow faster.

I quite enjoyed this one but all of the other five on the shortlist are much stronger.