The Debate Club discussion

Here's a space to respectfully give The Debate Club constructive criticism and offer any suggestions to help us improve. Any feedback is welcome and will be taken into account as we figure out how to make our group better! Thanks everyone.

If you have a specific suggestion for a topic we should add, that can be done here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

hi wow first comment
honestly i think one of the debate club's biggest issues is respect. like in the chaos chat there's always so much drama, and in the debates people on both sides of the issue tend to say really offensive things without even realizing how offensive it is.

i don't think we can do much about this by creating new rules, we should just advise everybody taking part in the debates to read what you wrote from the other side's perspective and consider if they would find it offensive. because trust me, i've seen some pretty rude things on the debates from people who think they're doing nothing wrong.


we should also try to reduce the christian focus of the debates, as suggested by @ashes and diamonds in the other feedback topic

Thank you, Sai! Wonderful ideas!

i have a few thoughts, and i promise i am not trying to be disrespectful, but because i enjoy debate, i looked through this group and glanced through a few topics and noticed a couple things that made me slightly concerned:

1: i've been seeing quite a few people spreading misinformation! some numbers being offered up in a few topics (i.e. "israel vs palestine") are untrue. im not sure if thats just because their sources aren't the best, but i think its important to make sure fact checkers are involved in debates like this!

2: i think that certain topics need to be renamed. This mostly pertains to the topics in religious sections (i.e. "Is the Bible True?" "Is God Real?" and "Is the Afterlife Real, and if so, How Does it Work?"). This is mostly because you cannot prove or disprove god being real or religious scripture to be true. I think that renaming them so something like "how historically accurate is the bible" or "what evidence is there that god is real" would be better.

3: some topics in here are harmful and can lend platforms to bigots. i appreciate hearing another person's opinion, but when you are platforming people that argue about inalienable human rights, it is never a healthy discussion. (some topics include: "Does Psychology and the Concept of Mental Health Go Against the Bible?" what does this even mean? "Should Women Be Able to Tie Their Tubes At Their Own Discretion?" why should they not be able to? any argument otherwise is misogynistic. firmly so. "Is The Foster Care System Really That Bad?" why are we debating about abuse that people experienced? "What Role Should Christian Women Play in Society?" i was personally stunned at this one. "Should Same-Sex Marriages be Legal? ⚢⚣", "Should People be Considered Trans Pre-Surgery?", and "Should Kids Have to Get Permission from Parents to Join LGBTQ+ Clubs at School?" are all topics that give genuinely hateful people room to be incredibly cruel and homophobic. This may be a stretch, but imagine you made a topic such as "was the Holocaust really that bad?" just because someone requested it.)

4. I think that for certain topics, definitions and facts should be provided in the beginning to prevent both misunderstanding and misinformation.

thank you!

Thank you so much for the feedback!!
1. I think fact checkers is an amazing idea and we will discuss that!!
2. About the religious things, personally I disagree, in both I offered lots of evidence that disproved the Bible and the reality of God. I totally get where you’re coming from and we will see what we should do about those!!
3. The reason we have those is because of bigots, honestly. They are a chance to open other peoples mind because sadly there are people who think like that. As a literal former bigot, I used to be incredible conservative and hateful, debates like those are the biggest reason I changed and wa sable to see differently. The ‘mental health against the bible’ one I completely agree is crazy but I’ve encountered many people who think mental health doesn’t exist because it doesn’t say so in the Bible.as for the tying tubes one, it’s illegal in a lot of places for women to do that! Arguments against that are misogynistic yes, but there are misogynistic people and we can’t hide topics because the opposing is misogynistic. In reality, a lot of laws are and it’s good to see why people think things are that way. The ‘what role should Christian women play’ one I agree on, it’s ridiculous, but we used to have some Christian mods who made it who thought it needed to be discussed. The lgbtq ones are incredibly controversial but that’s the point of the debate is to hear homophobic people’s views and convince them otherwise. It does give them room to be bigoted but it also has information and opinions you wouldn’t hear otherwise. I agree the foster care one could be taken down or edited, it was made because in the abortion debate we would discuss how foster care isn’t always a good option, and a lot of people didn’t realize what was so bad about it.
4. Agreed!

We do really appreciate the feedback and we will definitely take into account wha you’ve said and make necessary changes!

⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "i have a few thoughts, and i promise i am not trying to be disrespectful, but because i enjoy debate, i looked through this group and glanced through a few topics and noticed a couple things that m..."

Thank you so much for the detailed feedback! That means a lot to us, and I promise the mods will be discussing all of your points in our private discussions. I think Tessie answered really well to your suggestions and I agree with her so I won't be repeating it. Thank you again for your time!

Hey! I really appreciate that there's a place here on Goodreads to discuss opposing ideas! Talking through our differences is so important if we want a civil society. Thank you to everyone who puts time and thought into this group!

Maybe it's just me, (I'm also pretty newly rejoined here:) but there seems to be a really heavy bias in the moderators. I think it could be good to have more of a balance! Maybe the group could benefit from more Christian or conservative mods! Just a thought:)

I like this group!!!

LAURENNNNNNNN!!!!!

Faith wrote: "Hey! I really appreciate that there's a place here on Goodreads to discuss opposing ideas! Talking through our differences is so important if we want a civil society. Thank you to everyone who puts..."

Yes, I agree about the moderators! When we elected moderators, very few Conservative ones applied (though we specifically requested those) so we chose as balanced a moderation team as we could. We'll be working on that and maybe we'll have another moderator election soon! Thank you for bringing this up :)

Faith wrote: "Hey! I really appreciate that there's a place here on Goodreads to discuss opposing ideas! Talking through our differences is so important if we want a civil society. Thank you to everyone who puts..."

Yes, we've actually thought about that. I think we're going to send out a poll later this week on people's beliefs, but I totally agree. I don't think we have any conservative mods since Mini and Austin left. I'll ask the other Mods about it. Thank you for your feedback!

Skybird (Nickname Sky) wrote: "LAURENNNNNNNN!!!!!"

WHATTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Faith wrote: "Hey! I really appreciate that there's a place here on Goodreads to discuss opposing ideas! Talking through our differences is so important if we want a civil society. Thank you to everyone who puts..."

I think our mods are unbiased as possible and during moderation (of course we have our own opinions during debates) we try to stay unbiased. I see where you’re coming from and like Sky said we didn’t have many options for conservative mods. When we did it did cause a lot of issues but I think we’re looking into that lately.

Faith wrote: "Hey! I really appreciate that there's a place here on Goodreads to discuss opposing ideas! Talking through our differences is so important if we want a civil society. Thank you to everyone who puts..."

i know other mods already responded lol but thanks, we'll definitely look into appointing some conservative mods! especially with the reawakening of this club. thanks for pointing out your suggestions! :)

Goodreads keeps automatically making my profile private, I'm really confused. I want people to see my profile so they know who they're friending

Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "Goodreads keeps automatically making my profile private, I'm really confused. I want people to see my profile so they know who they're friending"

Yeah that happened to me for a while, it's really annoying, Goodreads automatically makes your profile private if you're a minor (so if you have your age set or have said somewhere that you're under 18). I don't know what to do about it other than email them and appeal and keep changing your settings back.

Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "Goodreads keeps automatically making my profile private, I'm really confused. I want people to see my profile so they know who they're friending"

hi! just wanted to point out that this member's bio literally says he believes gay people will burn in hell. maybe lets not platform people like this!

Guys, if you want to show your profile just don't even put in your birthday when you edit your profile.

@vyn Let Steve live a little :) You guys can try your hand at debating him

Either you don't include any info about your birthday (so gr doesn't even know what it is) and have your profile be public, or you show your bday and then gr will automatically make it private. Does that make sense?

Noel wrote: "@vyn Let Steve live a little :) You guys can try your hand at debating him"

um, no? i will not let him 'live a little' while he believes i should burn in hell and suffer for all of eternity.

Please stay on topic, this is not a place to discuss the things on people's profiles!

Noel wrote: "Either you don't include any info about your birthday (so gr doesn't even know what it is) and have your profile be public, or you show your bday and then gr will automatically make it private. Doe..."

Thanks!!

Barnette ⋆˙⟡ wrote: "Please stay on topic, this is not a place to discuss the things on people's profiles!"

respectfully, no. this is genuine feedback, and you are platforming people that genuinely HATE people like you and me. i honestly cannot believe how much hate this group allows in its discussions. conversations and debate are one thing, but ignoring when member genuinely want you to fucking burn in hell is absolutely insane.

"if you welcome wolves and sheep, only wolves will come."

you are, whether or not you believe it, platforming intense hatred. simply believing that queerness is a sin is something that can be debated and argued and people can see the flaws in their logic, but this person *hates* people like me. it makes me nauseous that the moderators of this group allow such prejudice and hate flaming rampant through this group.

Hi, a queer mod here. While I agree Steve views are hateful and disgusting, we can’t ban him for his profile, that would be prejudice. Also haven’t seen you debate in a while, hello.

Tessie wrote: "Hi, a queer mod here. While I agree Steve views are hateful and disgusting, we can’t ban him for his profile, that would be prejudice. Also haven’t seen you debate in a while, hello."

oh hey

it's not prejudiced to ban bigots or to protect the people in your server. would you allow a white person to say the n word simply because 'freedom of speech' or because it would be prejudiced to remove them? would you let somebody like that stay for sake of 'debate' and 'discussion'?

Sorry you're offended by my opinions. I've been planning on updating my profile so I can word it differently I suppose. But I am allowed to express how I feel about certain topics. If you disagree, move on.

⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Tessie wrote: "Hi, a queer mod here. While I agree Steve views are hateful and disgusting, we can’t ban him for his profile, that would be prejudice. Also haven’t seen you debate in a while, hello...."

I'm not hurting anyone or using slurs. I just believe being gay is a sin. We can debate this on that topic but I won't be changing my opinions or my profile or leaving because you disagree

Steve is definitely on the verge of being banned with some of the things he has said, but we discuss controversial topics that do generate hate. We keep it to minimum, but take into account that we(the mods) also constantly receive complaints about our conservative members, but we receive complaints for not having enough conservative members and representation. Having an equal amount of both without being labeled dominantly conservative or liberal is a very tricky balancing act, and as a bunch of teens running a group of teens, we are genuinely trying our best. If you’d like to complain, please go elsewhere. If you’d like to respectfully offer your thoughts and ways we can fix things, do so here. Thank you.

Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "Sorry you're offended by my opinions. I've been planning on updating my profile so I can word it differently I suppose. But I am allowed to express how I feel about certain topics. If you disagree,..."

'if you disagree, move on'

is this not meant to be a debate club? and no, i cant just move on from shit like this. with as little respect as you deserve: you are as much of a follower of christ as the pharisees in the bible were.

vyn has a great point. i mean it’s a horrid and homophobic thing to have in your bio. and i understand this is a debate group but it gets to a point. we don’t have to advertise that good, loving people are going to hell. we still must be respectful and good people.

⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "Sorry you're offended by my opinions. I've been planning on updating my profile so I can word it differently I suppose. But I am allowed to..."

hey, guys, maybe take this to a debate if you would like to continue having this discussion! that's not quite what this topic is for. I would suggest the "is LGBTQ+ a sin" topic if you'd like to debate this. Thanks!

⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "Sorry you're offended by my opinions. I've been planning on updating my profile so I can word it differently I suppose. But I am allowed to..."

Move on to another topic and stop attacking me. This isn't for personal attacks, it's for ideas for the debate club

⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Tessie wrote: "Hi, a queer mod here. While I agree Steve views are hateful and disgusting, we can’t ban him for his profile, that would be prejudice. Also haven’t seen you debate in a while, hello...."

Not at all. But if someone says that on their profile we can’t control that.
Also, on his profile he says he believe queer people will go to hell. He doesn’t call them anything, he simply states his beliefs. Are they hateful? Probably. But his bio has nothing to do with our group.

Tessie wrote: "Steve is definitely on the verge of being banned with some of the things he has said, but we discuss controversial topics that do generate hate. We keep it to minimum, but take into account that we..."

im aware you're mostly kids, but i also am aware that many people have complained about this, and ive unfortunately never seen any harsher rules put in place. the reason i got upset is because i don't understand where you guys draw the line, and this is something that easily crosses the line for me and a lot of other people. steve created a topic to bash on the head moderater, barnette, and misgendered them, and still no action was taken.

i believe that there needs to be firmer rules in place, because how it looks from here is that people are more upset about me bringing this things to their attention rather than the fact that they are actually happening in the first place.

I'm leaving this topic sorry. I will not stop expressing my opinions even if I'm attacked for them

Steven never said he wants you guys to burn in Hell. He believes homosexuality is a sin so you would go to Hell if you continue to do that. That’s his personal view, he never said he wants you to go there.

Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Steve *JESUS IS MY SAVIOR, TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT* wrote: "Sorry you're offended by my opinions. I've been planning on updating my profile so I can word it di..."

you believe i should burn in hell. that feels like a personal attack, im returning your energy.

@vyn if steve uses a slur, attacks a member, etc., then we can talk
but simply having it on his profile is something we won't ban him for. the point is that we have people with differing views on here. if any member, like i said earlier, attacks someone or smth, then definitely. but just believing that gay acts are sinful is not enough to ban someone. the literal point is that people can debate with those they disagree with.

Syd wrote: "Steven never said he wants you guys to burn in Hell. He believes homosexuality is a sin so you would go to Hell if you continue to do that. That’s his personal view, he never said he wants you to g..."

*in his bio it says lgbtq people burn in hell....

It autocorrected to Steven sorry I meant to put just Steve

Tessie wrote: "⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Tessie wrote: "Hi, a queer mod here. While I agree Steve views are hateful and disgusting, we can’t ban him for his profile, that would be prejudice. Also ha..."

but it's the bio of somebody in your group, and while i would never expect you to patrol the bio of everyone who joins, when i brought it to your attention, i was completely brushed off.

@vyn again he never said he wanted you to go to Hell, he said if you continue in sin then you will go to eternal damnation, that’s our personal belief as Christians but we don’t want you to go there so that’s why we share our beliefs

Sai :) wrote: "@vyn if steve uses a slur, attacks a member, etc., then we can talk
but simply having it on his profile is something we won't ban him for. the point is that we have people with differing views on h..."

but he did. he made a topic specifically targeting your head mod and misgendering them- intentionally- and nothing was done.

Vyn, we can't really do anything about people who have said things outside of our group. If he were to come onto a debate and say something disrespectful such as that, we could give him a strike and/or possibly ban him. However, for simply stating his beliefs on his bio, we can't ban him from our group.

⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Sai :) wrote: "@vyn if steve uses a slur, attacks a member, etc., then we can talk
but simply having it on his profile is something we won't ban him for. the point is that we have people with diffe..."

*THIS IS TRUE,

And i will gladly go to a topic, to debate about how being LGBTQ is not a choice

@rowan because we believe homosexuality is sinful so yes we believe you will go to hell, do we want you there? No we don’t. But if you continue in sin then you go to hell. I’m not trying to push anything on you here I’m just trying to back up Steve, he could have put it a bit better tho

Syd wrote: "@vyn again he never said he wanted you to go to Hell, he said if you continue in sin then you will go to eternal damnation, that’s our personal belief as Christians but we don’t want you to go ther..."

i believe i may have a unique perspective on this because you guys are acting like i dont know what christians believe, but trust me, i grew up christian. my family is very christian. but believing someone will- and should, because otherwise you would be disagreeing with god? if im not mistaken- go to hell because they kissed someone of the same sex is insane no matter what. ive met so many christians who are kind and empathetic while believing queerness is a sin.

Rowan wrote: "⁺‧₊˚ ཐི⋆ vyn targaryen ⋆ཋྀ ˚₊‧⁺ wrote: "Sai :) wrote: "@vyn if steve uses a slur, attacks a member, etc., then we can talk
but simply having it on his profile is something we won't ban him for. the..."

Steve actually has written in his bio that LGBTQ is not a choice...which confuses me a bit since he seems to believe it IS a choice

I updated my bio, sorry if I was disrespectful. I just want to share my beliefs