Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Ovid, Metamorphoses - Revisited
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Week 8 — Books 14 & 15
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I had the feeling the book would go best being read aloud in the evening by a fire.
Roger wrote: "I had the feeling the book would go best being read aloud in the evening by a fire."“Let me tell you a story. Or two. Or three.” Yes, and I can imagine falling asleep as Caesar becomes a star….although I guess that act could be politically dangerous…at least in Ancient Rome.
By way of a visual summary, here is an article showcasing a number of Rubens’ paintings/sketches based on the Metamorphoses: https://eclecticlight.co/2025/07/15/c.... My favorite is probably the fall of Phaeton.
Lovely images. I don't think there is a single straight line in any of the paintings. They're full of curves and folds and bulging muscles. I think my favorite is Boreas Abducting Orithyia. I love the bright colors. But the Head of Medusa comes in as a strong second. What a fierce expression on her face!Thanks for sharing this.
Pythagoras struck me as an eloquent and moving summary of metamorphoses and his desire not to harm animals. It's beautiful and moving even if the reasoning fell apart for me by the end of this (as in the reincarnation with spirits moving between animals and people although there are religions that also believe this). I'm reading the Stephanie McCarter edition. To briefly quote, "What was is gone. What is, is not what was. Each moment brings a metamorphosis." Besides recognizing the endlessness of change, it also recognizes the beauty of change.
Kay wrote: "Pythagoras struck me as an eloquent and moving summary of metamorphoses and his desire not to harm animals. It's beautiful and moving even if the reasoning fell apart for me by the end of this (as ..."I like the way you put it: “Besides recognizing the endlessness of change, it also recognizes the beauty of change.”. Perhaps that’s why Ovid picked myths about shape changes for his subject. The book certainly covers them from the beginning of time to the present moment (at least Ovid’s present moment)
Btw, here’s a question for folks who participated in the “Metamorphoses” read — was the length of the weekly readings too short? too long? about right? What did you think?
Susan wrote: "Btw, here’s a question for folks who participated in the “Metamorphoses” read — was the length of the weekly readings too short? too long? about right? What did you think?"About right.
Susan wrote: "Btw, here’s a question for folks who participated in the “Metamorphoses” read — was the length of the weekly readings too short? too long? about right? What did you think?"It was ok.
I think the length of the weekly readings was fine. I get behind because of other reading priorities and most of these are based upon when library books are due and if there are any holds on them. I think the reading schedule was such that I made 'good reading' time in catching up once I had finished other books I wanted to read just as much.
Kay wrote: "Pythagoras struck me as an eloquent and moving summary of metamorphoses and his desire not to harm animals. It's beautiful and moving even if the reasoning fell apart for me by the end of this (as ..."I read this part as only a connection to the Augustus, but after your post, I can't see Pythagoras in Metamorphoses as Ovid's clever move to give explanation and summary of the book.
Susan wrote: "Btw, here’s a question for folks who participated in the “Metamorphoses” read — was the length of the weekly readings too short? too long? about right? What did you think?"It was fine for me.
Susan wrote: "Btw, here’s a question for folks who participated in the “Metamorphoses” read — was the length of the weekly readings too short? too long? about right? What did you think?"I started off being able to stick to the reading schedule but got behind due to some other reading projects. But even though I lagged behind, I very much appreciated the comments made by my fellow readers. The entire experience was very satisfying for me, and I hope to participate in another group read with you all in a future read. Thanks for your guidance, Susan!
Book 14 includes: The Story of Glaucus Continued, The Voyage of Aeneas Resumed, Achaemenides Tells His Story, Picus & Canens; Aeneas’ Voyage Continued, The Narrative of Diomedes, The Return of Venulus, The Deification of Aeneas, Legendary History of Rome, Vertumnus & Pomona, The Story of Iphis & Anaxarete, More Early Roman History
Book 15 includes: The Succession of Numa, The Teachings of Pythagoras, The Return of Numa, The Story of Hippolytus, The Story of Cipus, The Story of Aesculapius, The Deification of Caesar, The Epilogue
Books 14 and 15 continue tracking the voyages of Ulysses and Aeneas. After Aeneas’ arrival, the emphasis on the history of Rome continues, ending with the deification of Julius Caesar and a paean to his successor Augustus. A long section is spent presenting the teachings of the Greek philosopher Pythagoras, including vegetarianism and change as a constant in life. More men try telling mythic stories to persuade the objects of their affection with mixed results. And Ovid closes the poem claiming an eternal name for himself and his poem.
The section on Pythagoras’ teachings stood out to me as unlike any other section of the poem. What could be the purpose of this section? Does it explain why metamorphoses was chosen as the subject for Ovid’s poem? And do you think Ovid might have been a vegetarian?
The last words of the poem can be translated “I shall have life” or “I may have life.” (based on the Allen Mandelbaum translation). What does your translation say? Is the epilogue a satisfying end to the poem?
This also seems like the time to discuss reactions to the work as a whole. I enjoyed reading this very much, and as I thought about how the poem survived through the years, I pictured a medieval monk happily tasked with copying the manuscript and enjoying the poetry and stories as he worked.