Victorians! discussion

Welcome to Week 2 of Armadale! Do we feel like we have a good grasp on all of our Allan Armadales? I can provide a cheat sheet for those who need it! We have had five Allan Armadales so far (that’s got to be a record for characters with the same name in one book, right?), and at this point, it will almost feel weird if more don’t pop up this week! Let’s see, shall we?

Ch. II - “The Man Revealed”

Dawn is breaking as Mr. Brock finishes the letter. He is overwhelmed with the information he has learned, but assures Ozias Midwinter that he has no intentions of holding the sins of his father against him. Midwinter insists that the story of his birth is only half the tale; Mr. Brock must know his whole life story before he spends any more time with Allan.

Midwinter tells a sad tale of abuse at the hands of his stepfather, Mr. Neal (yes, THAT Mr. Neal!) and his own mother. The boy runs away from his school in Scotland at the age of eleven and travels the country with a drunken gypsy, Ozias Midwinter. Young Allan adopts the gypsy’s name and keeps it even when the man dies two years later. The young boy manages to stay alive through a series of laborious, punishing jobs, and ends up at sea. He is accused of mutinous behavior and imprisoned for a short time. When he is released at the age of seventeen, he finds employment at a bookstore run by a miser. He is hired because he is the only person who will agree to the ridiculously low salary for the job, but what the job lacks in pay is made up for by access to books. Midwinter tells Mr. Brock that “the books–the generous friends who met [him] without suspicion–the merciful masters who never used [him] ill” (96) made his life endurable (yay, books!). He shares a house with the miser for two years before the man dies and leaves him once again unemployed. Midwinter’s next position is at the school, and we know how that turns out.

Now that Mr. Brock is up to speed on all things Midwinter, they begin discussing moving forward. Midwinter assures Mr. Brock that although he felt himself overcome by his father’s “heathen belief in Fate” after reading the letter, his love for Allan lifted him above its influence. He refuses to believe that “a friendship which has grown out of nothing but kindness on one side, and nothing but gratitude on the other, is destined to lead to an evil end” (103). He sees himself not as “an instrument in the hands of Fate” but as one “in the hands of Providence.” He asks Brock if he should perpetuate his father’s crime “by mortally injuring” Allan, or atone for it “by giving him the devotion of [his] whole life?” (103). Brock gives their friendship his blessing but stops Midwinter from burning his father’s letter, pointing out that the nefarious maid was still alive and had tragically affected Mrs. Armadale before her death. Midwinter notes the resemblance between Brock’s description of her and that of the woman who jumped into the river and ultimately led to Allan’s inheritance, but Brock gently discredits it and Midwinter agrees. They burn the letter, to Midwinter’s relief.

Ch. III - “Day and Night”

Unable to sleep, Midwinter joins Allan on his yacht, where his friend is engaged in cleaning. Allan has decided to hire Midwinter as his estate steward (without asking his friend how he feels about it) and has put the previous steward’s cottage up for lease since he intends for Midwinter to live in the main house. He asks Midwinter which of the two prospective tenants he should choose, a bachelor lawyer or a general with a daughter, and then completely disregards Midwinter’s advice and flips a coin instead. The general wins, and Midwinter wonders if such a thing as chance even exists.

On a trip to Port St. Mary, they are given a ride by a Doctor Hawbury after their horse is lamed. Allan is fast friends with him by the end of their journey. Their day is uneventful, despite the ominous warnings the readers receive of trouble to come. Allan visits the doctor’s house after Midwinter falls asleep. At midnight, Midwinter is awakened by the doctor to help him stop Allan from doing something imprudent.

The doctor has (for reasons known only to himself and which he will presently greatly regret) decided to allow an unknown young man to take his sailboat out in the middle of the night without him. Midwinter accompanies him and they steer toward the remains of a wreck. Once they are exploring the ruins, Midwinter discovers that it is the site where his father murdered Allan’s. He is horrified and it is at this point that he discovers that Allan did not secure the doctor’s boat and it has drifted away.

Ch. IV - “The Shadow of the Past”

Allan, clueless of this history, remains almost revoltingly cheerful (I mean, he did just lose this man’s boat!) while Midwinter is seriously losing it. Allan finally forces open the cabin door, over his friend’s protests, and Midwinter passes out. He sincerely apologizes to his friend and tries to hail a house on shore for help. He thinks he has made contact but is alarmed when his shout is “mimicked with a shrill, shrieking derision–with wilder and wilder cries, rising out of the deep, distant darkness, and mingling horribly the expression of a human voice with the sound of a brute’s.” He then sees a dark figure leap onto a rock where it “capered and shrieked” (128). The figure was hauled away by another while a woman screamed, and then all was quiet. Relieved at having escaped an encounter with a madman, Allan announces that they will have to wait to be rescued by the workers in the morning. Midwinter is strongly tempted to tell Allan the truth, but instead starts to say that maybe it would be better if they parted ways. Allan makes light of this, and Midwinter tries to prove that he is not a fit companion for Allan, but fails when Allan simply tells him that such talk is hurtful to him. Midwinter gives up and decides to embrace whatever Fate has for him at Allan’s side.

While Midwinter paces the deck, Allan falls asleep and has a terrible nightmare. Before he can share it with Midwinter, help arrives. The doctor’s drifting boat was found and recognized, and when he was alerted to it being unmanned, he gathered a party to search. They go back to the doctor’s house for breakfast, and Allan promises to tell Midwinter his dream.

Ch. V - “The Shadow of the Future”

Allan has told Midwinter his dream, and Midwinter has written it down. Allan tells the doctor about it and gently makes fun of Midwinter for trying to convince him that the dream is a warning to avoid certain people–mainly, him! The doctor links every aspect of the dream to ordinary events or impressions of Allan’s day so successfully that even Midwinter allows himself to hope that the dream was just that–a dream. When the doctor’s explanation falters a bit, Midwinter’s hope dies, and even though the doctor does satisfactorily explain all the elements of the dream, Midwinter has returned to his initial conviction that the dream is a supernatural warning to Allan against himself. He drops the subject at Allan’s request but refuses to allow him to burn the written account of it.

So what are your thoughts on this week's reading?

Some questions:
1. Do you think Midwinter is doing the right thing by not telling Allan the truth about his identity and their shared past?
2. Do you think Midwinter is on to something with his suspicions about the similarity between the descriptions of the two mystery women?
3. How do you feel about this second section, now that we are in the present as opposed to being filled in on backstory (although we did get a little of that with Midwinter's history)?

Please share any thoughts, questions, or predictions you may have!

1. No definitely not, but such is what drives the plot!
2. Definitely. Subtlety in its signposting is not this books things. I'm at the point where literally any woman mentioned is clearly "the" woman.
3. This section definitely read better to me. Midwinter emerges as a character in his own right, and he is agreeably complex.

And the scene on the wreck, in the night? Completely bonkers, in a good way. I can see this is going to be high melodrama, and I'm fine with that, though I wish it didn't signpost everything quite so much. But I guess this is partly because of serialization.

Emmeline wrote: "And the scene on the wreck, in the night? Completely bonkers, in a good way. I can see this is going to be high melodrama, and I'm fine with that, though I wish it didn't signpost everything quite so much. But I guess this is partly because of serialization...."

I have to agree with both labels of bonkers and melodrama for the spectacular appearance of the madman on the rocks. Lucky for Allan that the man was hauled away before he could get to the wreck!

The flashing red arrows are pretty prominent, but as you said, it was pretty important for him to cement these events in his readers' memories--they were going to have to hang onto them for some time before getting to read the next part.

1. Midwinter should definitely tell Allan the truth. If he doesn't the truth will probably come out in some disastrous way.
2. Yes, I think Midwinter's suspicions about the woman are absolutely correct. I wonder if she has some connection with the new tenants at Thorpe Ambrose.
3. I was completely absorbed in this section, partly because it moved into the present but also because it brought up new questions and concerns:
Some random thoughts:
It was both disturbing and unlikely that Midwinter was abused by both his mother and Mr. Neal. His mother had seemed loving enough, although preoccupied with her late husband's story, and Mr. Neal definitely didn't impress me as someone who would take a whip to a child. I believe his story, but it seemed unrealistic.
The section where Midwinter's little dog is killed was heart-wrenching, and I really felt his loneliness and despair.
The section on the boat was truly haunting. I can't imagine the purpose of the weird things Allan saw when he climbed up to call for help, but I'm sure the scene will have some relevance to the overall story. Also, it seems that Midwinter has some innate fear that he will do physical harm to Allan, just as his father did to Allan's father. Finally, Allan's dream seems to Midwinter to be a foretelling of the future despite Mr. Hawbury's more rational explanation. He dreads the move to Thorpe Ambrose and to meeting Allan's new tenants.

Nancy wrote: "It was both disturbing and unlikely that Midwinter was abused by both his mother and Mr. Neal. His mother had seemed loving enough, although preoccupied with her late husband's story, and Mr. Neal definitely didn't impress me as someone who would take a whip to a child. I believe his story, but it seemed unrealistic...."

I'm so glad that you enjoyed this section! I too found it shocking that Midwinter's mother could mistreat him, but then I'm always shocked when a mother rejects her own child in such a way. I think there were subtle hints in the dictation scenes--she desperately wants her husband to love her but feels rejected by him, while he clearly adores and lavishes affection on his son. Add to that her shame and horror upon learning of her husband's misdeeds, and the child a daily reminder of them.

Mr. Neal was presented, I believe, as a coldly inflexible and unempathetic character. He maintains this demeanor throughout the emotional story told to him by a dying man. The only warmth he shows is when he betrays his attraction to Mrs. Armadale. I can see this type of person being a rigid disciplinarian, considering his harsh punishments as "doing his duty" by the boy. Does that make sense?

The scene with the madman on the rocks is definitely bizarre and will no doubt make more sense as we get deeper into the story. Colliins certainly keeps us focused on the free will/fate theme with all of the dreams and Midwinter's dread of following in his father's footsteps!

I'm still trying to get into the story. I may be minority here but I'm kind of struggling to get connected to the story. So far, it has not gripped me like many other Collin's novels. I think the story is too melodramatic for my taste at present. It's still early stages and I hope I'll become more interested with the story's progress. Right now I'm intrigued by the idea of mystery woman.

I'm still not sure what to think of the two young Allan Armadales. I don't care about the Allan Armadale (who goes by his real name). His flippant manner kind of irritates me. Ozias Midwinter, I like a bit better.

Nancy and Cindy, I too was horrified by Midwinter's past story. It's cruel of his mother and Mr. Neal to treat the young boy like they did. Like Nancy, I also thought that they are not capable of ill treating a child.

Then again when I came to the part where Midwinter receives his share of inheritance from his late father's property and the objections his stepfather (Neal) made, I wonder whether Neal was governed by dark mercenary thoughts. Maybe my imagination is running high after reading all the superstition and supernatural contents in this section. 😀

Piyangie wrote: "I'm still trying to get into the story. I may be minority here but I'm kind of struggling to get connected to the story. So far, it has not gripped me like many other Collin's novels. I think the s..."

I agree with you. I thought this section was much better than the first one, but I wouldn't say I felt connected. The big thing of interest in this book is meant to be the woman, at least according to my back cover copy, so I'm holding on for her. If I wasn't, I'm not sure I would continue, based on these characters.

Emmeline wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "I'm still trying to get into the story. I may be minority here but I'm kind of struggling to get connected to the story. " ... I agree with you. I thought this section was much better than the first one, but I wouldn't say I felt connected."

The two of you could be the reason why I hang on to this group read, at least for a while yet ... I was ready to drop the book when we got the evil stepparents trope, quite out of the blue - maybe it's pointless, but why not ... it's dark, it's melodramatic, so let's have a dose of it. I guess that once you start out with 5 Allans and 1 rather unmotivated murder, and go on to kill off a family to make an heir, you can't stop that easily.

(I do admit that I have problems reading Collins, not for lack of trying. While some books of that period are among my all-time favourites, Mr. Collins and I just don't seem to get along)

Piyangie wrote: "I may be minority here but I'm kind of struggling to get connected to the story. So far, it has not gripped me like many other Collin's novels...."

I really think that the first part is so heavy on background detail that it makes it hard to connect with any of these characters. I think (hope) that you will find the upcoming sections a little more focused on character development, which allows us to become invested in their outcomes. Also, the most fascinating character has yet to take the stage . . .

Emmeline wrote: "The big thing of interest in this book is meant to be the woman, at least according to my back cover copy, so I'm holding on for her..."

Good strategy! I hope you decide to continue, but I urge you to meet all of the main characters before making that decision. It may well be that once the entire cast is on stage, you might find it engaging enough to stick with it.

sabagrey wrote: "While some books of that period are among my all-time favourites, Mr. Collins and I just don't seem to get along)..."

I hope that, as I advised Emmeline, you will stick around at least long enough to see all the main characters introduced. It may not make enough of a difference for you to continue, but then again, it might. That being said, (and even though it gives me physical pain to write this :), not every author works for every reader. I hope that you find the story interesting enough to keep reading, but no judgment if you don't!

As far as the evil stepparents--I don't think they were heavily foreshadowed, but I felt that enough hints were thrown out that I could buy it. Killing the whole family--yeah, that was a bit of a stretch!

When reading this section I had shivers of apprehension, not because of the storyline, but because it reminded me of when I started reading Robert Louis Stevenson’s The Master of Ballantrae, one of the few books I gave up reading after the first few chapters. Without giving too much away, the convoluted family feuding followed by a mass slaughter or two became too much for me.

I am not a fan of evil forebodings swirling around the plot. In fact I have only ever read a couple of ‘horror’ novels - Frankenstein: The 1818 Text and Dracula. I much prefer the drama to be firmly placed in the natural rather than the supernatural, even if unsavoury events emerge from there.

The murder confession letter, the wreck of the timber ship mysteriously reappearing 4000 miles from where it originally sank, the night sail into the treacherous waters of the sound, the madman on the shore and the mysterious dream already seemed enough to cope with if it wasn’t also the ever rising tensions between Midwinter and Armadale.

That there will come a crisis point is inevitable, but it feels to me that too much has been signalled already that this event will occur and now the reader is just waiting for it to happen.

I have read many of Collins’ novels and thoroughly enjoyed them, but I feel a similar uneasiness about this novel that Midwinter is feeling about his maintaining his continued relationship with Armadale.

The two men seem so different in their personalities and attitudes to life, I would have to argue that they would be incompatible even if they weren’t connected by such a shameful past.

Armadale’s revered father was no saint and whilst he did not deserve his fate, Midwinter’s father’s crime was a crime of passion undertaken in a moment of madness. For Midwinter to have to shoulder the burden of that knowledge is tantamount to a living hell, one that will break him unless he finds some kind of release.

I am hoping that in the quiet backwaters of Norfolk, there will be less frenzy and more unravelling of the knotty problems that Midwinter has taken responsibility for. But with Midwinter retaining the dream notes until their arrival, will the crisis arrive before that?

Trev wrote: "The two men seem so different in their personalities and attitudes to life, I would have to argue that they would be incompatible even if they weren’t connected by such a shameful past...."

They are very dissimilar. Indeed, it is hard for me to imagine what draws the gregarious, impulsive Allan to Midwinter. Allan seems like a big, gamboling puppy, always running around, drawn hither and thither by varying sights and scents. Allan has apparently decided that their shared liking of sailing is basis enough for deep friendship and is not self-reflective enough to question the compatibility of their personalities. Midwinter recognizes it but has decided that his role is protector of Allan, his loyalty completely won by Allan's acceptance and generosity.

Midwinter fears a repetition of the past and his own role in it, but at this point, his fierce devotion to Allan and the selflessness of his love for him makes it hard to imagine that he could ever become dangerous to his friend. At this point, I feel that Midwinter would be more likely to throw himself on a grenade to save his friend than that he would be the one lobbing it at him! Never say never, though, right? We still have a long way to go!

I agree with Piyange, Cindy and Trev about the characters of Allan and Ozias. They seem complete opposites, with a friendship based only on a love of boats and, in Ozias' case, the fact that Allan was accepting of him when others hadn't been. Ozias is probably slightly unsettling company with his mysterious moods, but is anyone else finding Allan overwhelmingly annoying?? I think if I were Ozias I would prefer to be on my own! The way Allan shrugged it off when he carelessly let the boat drift away, then was laughing at his friend's discomfort on the ship... It's presented as a lovable thing that he is so carefree and cheerful but he would make me want to chuck him overboard!

At least things are beginning to move along a bit in this section, although we still got a LOT of backstory with Ozias' detailed life history. I love Wilkie Collins but he does seem more long-winded than usual here. I also don't think we needed two whole pages about how boring the Isle of Man town was in order to justify their excursion to somewhere else.

I don't mind all the melodramatic foreshadowings of future disaster - that is why I love sensation fiction!

Lorna wrote: "I agree with Piyange, Cindy and Trev about the characters of Allan and Ozias. They seem complete opposites, with a friendship based only on a love of boats and, in Ozias' case, the fact that Allan ..."

I share your sentiments about Allan, Lorna. He is downright annoying. His too cheerfulness is exasperating. Collins may have wanted a brighter character for this dark and gloomy tale. But he has done excess with Allan, imho.

Lorna wrote: "The way Allan shrugged it off when he carelessly let the boat drift away, then was laughing at his friend's discomfort on the ship... It's presented as a lovable thing that he is so carefree and cheerful but he would make me want to chuck him overboard! ..."

LOL! This made me laugh, Lorna! I have to agree. My personal philosophy is that if something is going to be funny later, it might as well be funny now, but I'm pretty sure Midwinter was NEVER going to find being marooned on that wrecked ship funny, no matter how much time went by! So listening to Allan laugh about it had to be maddening. He's lucky he didn't get punched.

Piyangie wrote: "Collins may have wanted a brighter character for this dark and gloomy tale. But he has done excess with Allan, imho..."

Yes, I think he might have been going for that "opposites attract" trope, but Allan is cheerful in situations that really make you wonder about his intelligence. Wait until you get to the next section! No spoilers but *eyeroll*!

I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm really enjoying the book. My favorite genres are mystery and gothic suspense, and I like supernatural elements, so I loved the adventure on the moonlit haunted ship. I don't find it so unbelievable that two friends would be different. Sometimes we need a friend to make up for some deficit in ourselves. Ozias' responsible and sober behavior is essential to balance an easy-going and optimistic personality like Allan's. Allan makes Ozias laugh and brings him out of his shell a bit. When the two young men were tidying the ship's cabin, it gave the reader a glimpse of that friendship, and what it might be, as they bantered about the mess and the letter Allen was writing.
I wasn't so surprised at Ozias' mother's behavior. She often looks away from the baby at her husband's deathbed, and expresses the feeling that her husband only loves his son, and doesn't love her. Ozias' story certainly was a sad one and made him a much more sympathetic character. I am supposing the maid will be the long-awaited bad woman, but I wouldn't count on her being very likable. At present, she seems to represent the inexorability of fate.

Shannon wrote: "I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm really enjoying the book. ..."

I hope you're not in the minority! I love this book and have just been waiting for the real action to kick into gear (which hasn't happened yet). It has been quite a few years since I originally read it, so I have forgotten quite a bit of it. I'm enjoying the reacquaintance and due to my terrible memory, most of it feels new!

I think the infodump aspect of the beginning of this book can be off-putting, and tends to limit any real character development. As I said, we haven't really started the rising action on this plot graph yet and are still stuck in exposition. We will see some progress on that graph in the next section. I'm glad you're enjoying it!