My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion

Girl4beluga wrote: "I am seeming to find that as my knowledge of science and the psychology of human beings grows, I am becoming more and more accepting of abortion. That being said, what do you think the problems wou..."

as you know Girl4beluga, I don't support abortion, and that being said, I would not get into abortion if it happens with me and my 'future wife'. Yes I would be able to accept the persons decision, and accept what they have chosen. I can't hold it against them

I would involve myself with the person - I wouldn't treat them as an outcast or anything - but I would not lie about my not agreeing with their decision.

Well I for one believe abortion is wrong because the baby is still a life no matter what you call it. Let the mom have the baby there may be a miscarriage but that happens all the time. And only in dire needs would I ever have one...if the baby were to die I might even though I would pray first and let God carry out his plan.

Girl4beluga wrote: "yes alive like a plant a cow or a dog. It lacks all things that i would classify it as human like a consciousness and self-awareness."

Its a life a human baby so why kill it when it has a chance of living?

Did you know you can go to jail for shooting a dog? And yet, if you kill a baby it's perfectly all right.

Girl4beluga wrote: "yes alive like a plant a cow or a dog. It lacks all things that i would classify it as human like a consciousness and self-awareness."

I have a question, girl4b: would you say cell in your body is alive?

If it's completely illegal why do so many abortions happen? You can call it a fetus until you're blue in the face, but a baby that is in the womb that is nine months and two days old is no different from a baby outside the womb that is nine months and two days old. They are both babies. They are both alive and breathing and thinking and feeling.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "yes alive like a plant a cow or a dog. It lacks all things that i would classify it as human like a consciousness and self-awareness."

Its a life a hu..."

So just because it hasn't come out it still isn't a baby. Everyone says when they are pregnant yes I can feel my baby or I think the baby is kicking. A human is still a human even before it comes out. Oh here is another question. How would you like it if you knew your mother was going to kill you before you were even in her arms. Do you know how sad that would be? I would hate it.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "yes alive like a plant a cow or a dog. It lacks all things that i would classify it as human like a consc..."

well when you got to Heaven you would know and that would be sad still. But if you could go to earth and realize it it would be horrible!!!!!!! So you would know and it would be just as sad.

I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship willingly, deal with it--it's her mistake. If she's unmarried and was raped-- sorry. God will give you good opportunities for this. Everything's for a reason. If she's married--WHY WOULD SHE NOT WANT A CHILD? You hae to open to a family! It's a reason to marry.

And anyway-- why do people have sex if sex was made to have children, not to create pleasure?

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "yes alive like a plant a cow or a dog. It lacks all things that i would classify it as human like a consciousness and self-awareness."

I have a question, girl4b..."

The point is if it's alive . . . then it can be killed. One cell in your body has life in it - how much more does an egg from a woman's ovaries have life in it? As soon as the sperm penetrates the egg, it is not longer just an egg that -could- be a baby; it is already turning into one.
It's like saying you can kill the "extra" kids of the world because they're still maturing and not adults yet (so not really human) right?
Plus it's been scientifically proven that babies in the womb are aware of what is going on outside the womb. They react to their father and mother's voices.

Girl4beluga wrote: "If i was in heaven why would I care??? Would I not be glad not to of gone through all the hell on Earth???"

Actually being on earth is a nice expierience at times. God made man for fellowship and if your going to ask why didn't he make them live in Heaven then I don't know the answer its just what God wants. And he knew they were going to sin. Why didn't He stop them? You ask. He didn't so He could show how great He really is. We still wouldn't fully understand if we were in Heaven.

Girl4beluga wrote: "Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship willingly, deal with it--it's her mistake. If she's unmarrie..."

Well she means with the sex issue that they can stop the woman from having a baby but they choose not to. And here if the woman has already have twenty or so years of life then why deprive that child from that many years the woman has all ready have? Its almost unfair to the baby...Plus if God wants the baby to live then He'll let it live if not He'll let it die and be with Him. That woman shouldn't take matters into her own hands if it coud go any way God chooses.

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "yes alive like a plant a cow or a dog. It lacks all things that i would classify it as human like a consciousness and self-aw..."

If you say something's alive, then it can be killed, correct?

Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship willingly, deal with it--it's her mistake. If she's unmarried and was raped-- ..."

Well, actually it wasn't just made to have children. Sex was a pleasing thing before God that was to happen in marriage between the husband and wife. Yes, to have children, but it is also for the husband and wife's pleasure. But I do agree with everything else you said ;)

And God's Swordmaiden, unfortunately we cannot say that every baby that dies at birth goes to Heaven. We just can't know. If God chose them before time to be part of the elect then they will go to Heaven, but if not then they will go to Hell - because from the moment of conception babies have a sinful nature because of the Fall of man into sin.

Raven wrote: "Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship willingly, deal with it--it's her mistake. If she's unmarrie..."

What you said about me with the babies...there is a certain age where if the baby or toddler dies before it can wholly see what it means to be a Christian then they won't have a choice so if they die God will take them into Heaven to be with Him or so many babies and toddlers would be in hell

Girl4beluga wrote: "Well how do you know what God wants that at all???? Maybe it was meant as a life experience for the mother? Whatever God wants how can we know? But there is something called free will."

the bible - the word of god - was given to us so we COULD know. otherwise, saying going and shooting someone in the head - murdurering - is wrong could just be a concept, not something all as christians know is wrong because the bible says so.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Raven wrote: "Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship willingly, deal with..."

what do you believe then?

Girl4beluga wrote: "Well how do you know what God wants that at all???? Maybe it was meant as a life experience for the mother? Whatever God wants how can we know? But there is something called free will."

I didn't say anything about knowing what God wants I said that if God wants the baby to live or not then thats His decision. So I don't know if he will or not.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Raven wrote: "Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship willingly, deal with..."

Exactly so your saying you just either have to be good or that everyone will go to Heaven so if everyone goes to heaven then are hitler and Stalin in Heaven?

God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Well how do you know what God wants that at all???? Maybe it was meant as a life experience for the mother? Whatever God wants how can we know? But there is something called fre..."

Right. It's his decision. murduring is wrong - including babies (from fetus to toddler) - and if it's his decision to let a baby live or die, then we as humans shouldn't pick. it's like throwing it in god's face by saying, "nope, don't want the baby i concieved. the one you gave me. you don't know what's best for me."

God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Raven wrote: "Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarried and had a relationship ..."

it's nothing about being "good." all of us are SINNERS. unless you repent and ask god into your heart. it has nothing to do with how "good" you think - or other imperfect humans - think you are. that's why we have god to decide - he's perfect and unbiased.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Raven wrote: "Josephine wrote: "I think abortion is a horrible crime. Why would a mother sacrifice a child!? If she's unmarri..."

ok, so all of us go to heaven and decide if we believe the truth or not? or, let's see, go to HELL? then everyone would believe. the point of FAITH (and earth) is that we know we'll go to heaven because we are forgiven in christ.

Girl4beluga wrote: "sure okay......so you can only ask God into your heart on Earth??? Why does it stop?"

Because you die and your life has been taken away from you....God has already given you a chance why should he give another one?

Girl4beluga wrote: "Because he loves us and forgives us....and isn't life given too you?"

yes it has been.... if God is the one and only God then he has the right to strip us of our life to live with Him.

Girl4beluga wrote: "Because he loves us and forgives us....and isn't life given too you?"

so what you're saying is that eventually you'll be perfect because you keep trying? we're HUMAN. we're not HUMANS trying to BECOME God.

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Because he loves us and forgives us....and isn't life given too you?"

yes it has been.... if God is the one and only God then he has the right to stri..."

then what's the point of hell?

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Because he loves us and forgives us....and isn't life given too you?"

so what you're saying is that eventually you'll be perfect because you keep trying? we're ..."

yes, but if you keep trying - at what point will you be perfect? only god can be. that's why he's GOD. we're humans.

Girl4beluga wrote: "to balance out good."

ok who goes to hell? "bad' people, right? the thing is we're all bad. we've sinned. even lying is a sin.

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Because he loves us and forgives us....and isn't life given too you?"

so what you're saying is that eventually you'll be per..."

keep trying to be good - or "better" i think your words were.

Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "to balance out good."

ok who goes to hell? "bad' people, right? the thing is we're all bad. we've sinned. even lying is a sin."

No those who have not been accepted jesus into their hearts not bad people or everyone would go to Heaven here everyone has a chance to go to heaven and some pass it up. if there were no hell where would those who have not accepted jesus into their hearts be if there were no hell than everyone would go to Heaven even hitler or Stalin

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "to balance out good."

ok who goes to hell? "bad' people, right? the thing is we're all bad. we've sinned. even lying is a sin."

I think people who go to hell a..."

in which case everyone would except the truth. cuz who wants to go to hell? since you die and end up seeing a burning pit or whatever hell may look like, then obviously there's a god. and therefore it must be true. so of course stalin would believe and go to heaven.

Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "to balance out good."

ok who goes to hell? "bad' people, right? the thing is we're all bad. we've sinned. even lying is a sin."

I think peo..."

That is a very good way of putting it.

Girl4beluga wrote: "That is so sad that you think so many people are going to hell....what makes you think they aren't sorry yet?"

They may be sorry but you can't take back what you've done.

Girl4beluga wrote: "That is so sad that you think so many people are going to hell....what makes you think they aren't sorry yet?"

if they were sorry they'd believe. believe in god and believe in the truth.

Really we have to rest on uncertainty. We can never know for sure what God will do, but resting on a Calvinistic view (as I am Calvinist) I believe in predestination, God setting apart a people for Himself before time, and therefore I believe that if an infant is part of that set-apart people (the elect) then it can go to Heaven even if it has never professed with its own mouth saving faith in Christ.

But just as one might say you cannot 100 % prove my position since I don't know all of God's ways or His reasoning, you cannot say that you are 100 % percent able to prove from the Bible that all babies that die at birth automatically go to Heaven. There is no verse that says anything like that. The Bible is really kind of silent on the matter.

So, while we can't know what God thinks, but if we trust in Him: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28

Raven wrote: "Really we have to rest on uncertainty. We can never know for sure what God will do, but resting on a Calvinistic view (as I am Calvinist) I believe in predestination, God setting apart a people for..."

Sorry but I don't think that goes with the Bible which I know you believe in it would mean that someone of the Jews even if they don't get saved will go to Heaven that s not fair on God's standards. Everyone has one chance and only one chance.

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "That is so sad that you think so many people are going to hell....what makes you think they aren't sorry yet?"

if they were sorry they'd believe. believe in god..."

right. and everyone would believe if faced with hell. so why hell at all? to make them believe?

Girl4beluga wrote: "why only one chance...that isn't very forgiving???"

Well why does God even need to give a chance? Because he gives it to them and thats his decision here just leave what God wants alone since you cannot change it.

Girl4beluga wrote: "why only one chance...that isn't very forgiving???"

so we just get chances till we get it right? in which case, there need not be a heaven since we can all just hang out on earth. so what's the point of heaven then?

Girl4beluga wrote: "Sharpie wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "why only one chance...that isn't very forgiving???"

so we just get chances till we get it right? in which case, there need not be a heaven since we can all just..."

acceptance of what?

God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Raven wrote: "Really we have to rest on uncertainty. We can never know for sure what God will do, but resting on a Calvinistic view (as I am Calvinist) I believe in predestination, God setting apar..."

God's Swordmaiden, could you please explain that again? I'm kinda confused xD

Girl4beluga wrote: "the TRUTH"

i have a feeling that we have different versions of the truth. please explain. i'm trying to understand where you're coming from. what denomination are you?

Girl4beluga wrote: "God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "why only one chance...that isn't very forgiving???"

Well why does God even need to give a chance? Because he gives it to them and thats his decision h..."

Well its His right He made us so He can do anything he wants which is everything righteous and holy.

Girl4beluga wrote: "the TRUTH"

Yes now your saying the acceptance of the Truth which is that there is a heaven and hell and that you can choose by accepting Jesus.

Girl4beluga wrote: "I don't know what the Truth is....no one does"

Except God.

ok update please

Girl4beluga wrote: "I don't know what the Truth is....no one does"

so you just... believe? in the truth? what if the truth is that we're all monkeys? can you please expound? raven and i are confused.

God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "I don't know what the Truth is....no one does"

Except God."

I'm a bit lost here; what do you y'all mean by the "truth"? No one knows the truth of what; just the truth in general, or the truth of what happens to babies when they die, or what? I don't really get what you guys are discussing.

me to, I am confused