Reading the Chunksters discussion

Are we done yet?... hahahah Come on Stand team keep going!!!

I made it. =)

More on the Frannie/Stu/Harold story in which Harold is starting to show his true colors. What Frannie says is true, if Harold just came to terms with the changing world he'd be alright, but somehow he's still convinced that most are out to get him.
His infatuation with Fran is a dead end and he knows this, yet he sees it only as a plot against him. Something Stu put together, something Fran and Stu are laughing about according to him. I do wonder what he writes in his journal.

The trashcan man's chapter was long again and I dreaded it almost as much as I dreaded my first encounter with him. I didn't like The Kid, I didn't like the chapter. I somehow felt dirty after reading it, not really sorry for Trash and somehow ashamed of that.
In the end we see a first sign of justice appearing again, albeit it on the 'evil' side and a bit over the top, but I did make me wonder how the 'good' side will treat its law breakers. I suppose incarceration is a too winded process for a newly born community and somehow I think banishment would seem more likely.
I don't know what to think of Lloyd. The fact that the crucifiction didn't appeal to him was a sign that he isn't evil to the core, but the fact that he still plays along, make him weak. And being weak in desperate times, is possibly worse.

Another thing that has come into my mind. I find that King does put a lot of sexual innuendo in this novel. He is never affraid to call it what it is, but I do find it a little excessive in this novel. I know it's a part of life, but somehow it started to bug me a little. Don't know if it bothered anyone else. It might just be the time of month! :)

Stephen King's use of any sexual innuendo has never bothered me or offended me. I really have just never noticed it.

I used to never notice it as well.. I think it's because I read it so many times that I'm starting to really see those moments and he rarely makes it pretty.

Although I have to agree that it is a part of life, and I'm not a prude (far from it, honestly), I sometimes found it to be annoying. It kind of gave me the feeling (in thrashcan's chapter) that he just wanted us to be shocked and honestly I think King can shock us so much better without having to grab onto that. Use it, of course, but less is more, anyway that is my opinion.

I didn't have that much trouble with Stu and Frannie coming together because that felt more real to me.
On the other hand, Mother Abigail reminiscing also felt kind of weird. It just felt like too much intel, if you get my drift. But hey.. it could be a state of mind I need to detox from. I went overboard for a while, and it could be that I'm roaming the camp of being a bit too sensitive to make up for that! =) Time will tell!

All caught up and still enjoying everything! In regard to all of the sexuality, I have noticed that there seems to be two sides to it. Take for example the love making that was occuring between Stu and Fran and the beginning of a relationship, while there was the negative and hurtful encounters that were occuring with the men on the highway who were taking women as prisoners. Having a complete break down of social order, no rules, no consequences, no "authority" to enforce right from wrong, each person would be left to follow their own moral compass and - trust me - as someone who works in psychology/mental health, the statistics are uncomfortably high for people who do not struggle with a guilty conscious. Granted, King is taking things to the next apocolyptic level, but still, to imagine how people would behave if there were no invisible boundaries anymore? Its a pretty scary thought! I have read that if you write down your dreams and really examine how you react to different dream situations, that it is the core of your personality - but you have to be brave enough to see yourself for who you truly are. I guess that is what each of these characters is being forced to do! :-)

I have to agree with a lot of your thoughts ladies.

I'm fine with Stu and Frannie getting togter and I'm happy that someone knows she is pregnant! I am worried that Harold is getting crazy though, he wants some type of revenge and he is creepy enough to do something drastic that would hurt other people.

I'm sorry but the trashcan man just freaks me out and I don't like reading the sections where he is the center of the story.

The sex parts don't bother me much, I'm more disturbed by the violence...lol I was happy to see that we are getting closer to getting a good picture of the two sides.

Next weeks section is not too long so maybe it will give people a chance to catch up!

Finished this section (finally... I'm trying not to keep trailing a week behind).

- Stu is right in that Harold could be a good guy if he tried. Sadly, it doesn't seem like he's going to try, especially given his thoughts after reading Fran's diary. That's a shame. I assume he's going to betray them soon.

- Stu and Fran together--I'm happy for them I guess? Though, there doesn't seem to be much more to their love than that they're two decent people and there aren't many of those left in the world. I guess I just don't think we've gotten enough background on their connection. They're certainly infatuated with each other, but love? Not sure I buy it.

- That women were being captured and held as sex-slaves doesn't surprise me--it seems like the kind of thing that might happen if society is completely broken down.

- The Trashcan chapter went on fooooorrrrreeeevvvveeeerrr, with what seemed to me to be a lot of unnecessary detail. I wonder what the late 70s edited version of this novel looked like. To be honest, I do think King could use an editor who is willing to stand up to him. But, he's famous and powerful, and anything he writes will sell millions of copies, so I guess he can use that as leverage to reject editing. I wish these chapters were tighter.

- I don't love Trashcan Man as a character, but I do wonder whether someone who is so clearly insane can be truly evil. Does anyone remember if Trashcan Man had killed anyone in his previous life? We know he loves destruction, but he seems uninterested in death and rape, and all the things we consider to be the worst actions. So it seems he succumbs to the influence of the evil folks around him, and agrees to do their bidding, but that seems more like a lack of will than a desire to do anyone actual harm. But I suppose bending to the will of evil around you is just as bad as being evil yourself. Possible comment on soldiers that take part in mass genocide at the order of their superiors?

Oh, and also--54% done! Yay, we're more than half way there. :)

Wow, you guys are totally rocking this book! Great job so far!

wow, took a break from the book because I was way ahead and now i'm behind!

Half way through chapter 48 and dreading it. King does such an amazing job of making Trash so disgusting and terrible (his burn was just too intense for me)

I'll have to catch up now!

Yup, you can just feel how painful and disgusting it is! :\

I am soooooooo far behind again. Sorry guys. Anyway, I finished this section today and read half of the next one.

As for the sexual stuff, usually that sort of thing does bother me, but in this book it doesn't seem to. Maybe because their has been a total disruption of society, and so it does not seem as inappropriate? Not sure.

Trashcan Man is truly scary on so many levels. He is so easily manipulated by the dark side. I think it is very interesting the questions about good and evil, society, and human nature that King is bringing up. He is giving me a lot to think about. Things that I never thought of before.

As for whether Trashcan Man can really be evil since he has always been insane....I'm not sure that it makes him EVIL, but it does make him really easy to manipulate. I was really wondering about him when they gave him the necklace with the stone. It actually surprised me that he had any doubts at all. He doesn't seem cognizant enough for that.

I am beginning to think that there are going to be some characters changing sides. Like Harold for instance. Is he going to stay on the good side, or switch. Or is he just going to have to struggle harder to be on the side he is. The same with Lloyd. He seems like he could go either way, but he is too high up in the hierarchy of Flagg's group to really change sides.

Interesting that King picked crucifixion as the way to punish the people who do not tow the line in Flagg's group. I also found it very interesting that, although they represent evil, there are strict rules in Flagg's group and dire consequences for breaking them.

Lyn, good to see you here! I'm about a week behind as well so I was hoping to spend tonight catching up but then a friend needed to talk so I lost my reading time. I'm glad you are still reading along and you really are not too far behind.

Trashcan many is super duper creeepy!!! He must have some special talent/skill that we are not aware of yet because they make kind of a big deal over him. I guess we will find out ;)

I also thought the use of the crucifixion to be very symbolic of just how evil the bad people are!

Andrea - I know. The crucifixion part was really creepy, but brilliant on King's part, I think.

I wonder with people from the 'good' side turning to the 'bad' side, if it happens the other way around too?

Are those change of hearts among those crucifixions perhaps?

Good point, Nath. I also wonder if some have had changes of heart but have been too afraid to leave due to the crucifixions--so instead, they're just playing along.

Wow, these are important questions! I wonder if we will find this out as the story unfolds....

Very insightful Nath! :)

Chapter 47

WTF! So much was going on so quickly and chaotically, I had to go back and re-read quite a few times. I vaquely remembered this part. I mean, I remember the barricade and a run-in with some bad guys and some woman being rescued, then joining them, but I'd forgotten how abrupt and brutal it all was.

Stu and Fran are official now and Harold is pissed. When he was hiding in the bushes, grinning, I was truly creeped out.

The trashcan man chapters are longer than they should be, but they don't bog me down. I do remember reading somewhere that a lot of his parts were cut from the initial release. I'll be interested in knowing what your thoughts are when you do find out why he is so important to Flagg.

@ Amy: Knowing now why he is so important, I agree that his chapters are necessary (and I'll have some thoughts on what I think the role he plays is in later threads, but I don't want to spoil them here).

That being said, it's not the existence of the chapters in themselves that bothered me, but how long this one in particular was, with material that I felt was repetative (not that he was telling the same story twice, but rather illustrating one point with multiple stories).

Which would probably be the reason they were cut initially...

Loretta - Can't wait to discuss Trashman's role with you in later threads.

I didn't mind as much all the gunfighting, etc, in the Stu/Fran/Harold/etc scene, as it seemed pretty darn realistic. Very "Book of Eli." Harold is becoming increasingly creepy, though.

Trashcan Man chapter, ugh. I never feel as bogged down in this book as when his chapters come up. This took ages and ages and ages! And so repetitive! And frankly, though I can handle quite a bit of foul language and disturbing sexual scenes in most books, this got to be so ridiculous and disturbing that it really made me want to leave off reading for awhile. I, too, felt dirty after reading it.

Interesting question about whether he can be truly "evil" if he is that insane. He does seem to have a sense of right and wrong, though, even if it is skewed? Regardless, I simply don't like him, he's too creepy and ends up with too many messed-up people.

Alana wrote: "I didn't mind as much all the gunfighting, etc, in the Stu/Fran/Harold/etc scene, as it seemed pretty darn realistic. Very "Book of Eli." Harold is becoming increasingly creepy, though.

Trashcan M..."
I was done with Fran and most of her crew except Harold. The entire paragraph on how feminism is a frivolous invention made me mad. I did not like the harem thing. It bothered me that Fran is so into Stu that she cannot see that a woman who just came from being repeatedly sexually violated is not a rival for his affections. I just hate the entire Stu and Frannie relationship right now.
I agree about the Trash Can man chapter being too much. These couple of chapters are the chapters that I wonder if Stephen Kings editor cut or edited down.