Classics and the Western Canon discussion

I would like to propose The Marriage of Heaven and Hell by William Blake for our next interim read.

I think it would be good to have some poetry up for discussion, for such is a medium not often talked about in depth on discussion boards.

The reason why I choose this piece which is somewhat unconventional for a poem is becasue Blake is one of my personal favorites, and I think that this work has a great chance to offer up some rather interesting conversation.

It is not very long to read, but it will still be intellectually stimulating and offer a lot to talk about.

It can be found online here:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/blake_m...

I like this version of it, because it includes the illustrations which Blake created to accompany the work.

Another online option

http://www.gailgastfield.com/mhh/mhh....

Have you read the The Great Divorce by C.S.Lewis? It was written in response to The Marriage of Heaven and Hell.

Oh no I have not read that. That could be interesting.

I couldn't find The Great Divorce online. It would be interesting to compare the two viewpoints. Anyway, I second your proposal. :)

Once upon a time I found a site which had a collection of C.S. Lewis works, if I can find it again, if it still exisits I can see they have that one.

Silver wrote: "I like this version of it, because it includes the illustrations which Blake created to accompany the work. "

That's important, because Blake saw his work not as poetry accompanied by some art, or as art accompanied by some poetry, but as a unified melding of words and art into one art form that is more than either.

(Somewhat similar to e e cummings's shaped poetry.) So I do encourage people to consider the artwork an integral part of the experience of the work.

Silver wrote: "I would like to propose The Marriage of Heaven and Hell by William Blake for our next interim read. "

It's not a matter of proposing; it IS an Interim Read. So let's have at the discussion!

Oh ok cool, sorry if I misunderstood, I thought people would make different suggestions and than there would be a vote or something to pick which one.

Blake is not an easy read. But he rewards careful reading (and re-reading and re-re-reading and ...)

If you don't recognize who Rintrah is, for instance, and wonder whether Blake is referring to some Norse or other mythology, the answer is that Rintrah is his creation, and this poem is the first mention of him, though he shows up in later works of Blake.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Blake's work was a marriage of artwork and words. In fact, the work originally was not typeset like a normal book, but Blake created the plates with both illustrations and words.

If you go to this page and click on the embedded links for the plates, you will see the actual version as Blake created it.

Here is what it says in my footnotes about Rintrah:

A Blake name for a wrathful poet-prophet of the Old Testament (like John the Baptist). This figure is Blake's persona for rebuking the present aridity of society and predicting restorative revolution.

I have to say this is quite an interesting work in which there are so many different things working together here all at once, part poetry, part prose, part philosophical vision, part satire. That is a lot to pack into one single body though I have to say reading this does remind me of why I do love Blake so much. For even while I am struggling with comprehending it all, I still find it enjoyable to read. Even within the more prose like sections of the writing, his poetic touch is still but to skillfully use and gives the words such a fluid rhythm. I also like the way in which because of the satirical nature of the work I can feel a certain almost playfulness within the writing, patriotically I think within the "Proverbs From Hell" though I am still struggling to grasp their meaning. I think I am starting to piece together bits of understanding of this work.

I also just have to say that I absolutely love the opening lines which start out "The Argument" the poetry there I think is astoundingly beautiful with such a depth of rich imagery and how can you not love a line like

"Hungry clouds swag on the deep"

One more thing, others may find this helpful in their reading, as I know that I found it most useful, it is an excerpt from the notes of my text, in regards to Swdenborg who Blake references, and in addition to the fact that I myself did not know who that was, the note also helped a bit with the understanding of the
"Memorable Fancy" as it is a response to Swedenborg's writing.

"His immediate target is the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg, a visionary theologian he initially admired but then found fault with: it is Swedenborg's Memorable Relations, solemn reports of encounters with angles and devils in his Treatise Concerning Heaven and Hell, that are satirized in Blake's Memorable Fancies."

I have to say that I love the irony, that in "The Voice of the Devil" Blake introduces Milton into the conversation so to speak.

I think that there is a mixture of both satire and praise shown for Milton here. In The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, Blake is proposing an argument against "Reason" or against this idea that through the rational mind is the best way to reach God, and the oppression of our desires and more sensual delights.

Thus Blake is arguing against the way Milton puts forth the rational mind within Paradise Lost, but at the same time he acknowledges Milton's prowess as a poet and the way in which Milton's own imagination has been put forth in the creation of the work.

For one of Blake's arguments against reason, and the repression of our passions is the fact that it will also be a restraint upon our imagination.

I love the line:

"The reason Milton wrote in fetters when he wrote of Angels & God, and at libirty when of Devis & Hell, is becuase he was a true Poet and of the Devils part without knowing it"

Everyman wrote: "Silver wrote: "I like this version of it, because it includes the illustrations which Blake created to accompany the work. "

That's important, because Blake saw his work not as poetry accompanied ..."

Would Blake have even recognized the distinction between "poetry" and "art," in any poet's work, let alone his own?

A fantastic site for all things Blake is the Blake Archives:

http://www.blakearchive.org/blake/

When you realize that no two copies of his "illuminated books" are completely alike, thus inviting varying interpretations based on the differences in artwork, then his work becomes that much more fascinating.

Echoing the thoughts of others on this thread, it seems absolutely impossible to consider Blake's written text without its corresponding artwork. The artwork often acts as a contradiction of the written text. Blake is fond of contraries and I believe he had a great deal of fun blurring the lines of meaning in his works.

Silver wrote: "I have to say this is quite an interesting work in which there are so many different things working together here all at once, part poetry, part prose, part philosophical vision, part satire. That ..."

Great points, Silver. It does seem Blake is very interested in the repression of passion. It plays a large part in the Songs collection as well. There seems to exist this tension between a rejection of reason and a fear of what that rejection may let loose...passion. There is much disturbing sexual imagery to be found in Blake's work.