Middle East/North African Lit discussion

Hello all ,

Here and within this year 2011



we will explore The ME in Our cruise from west to east, we divided the region into five minor regions to present five stops , each stop - which will last for two months – will include one of these regions , we left (2months as spare) in case we need any more time for any region , or just a free discussion period.

During each stop we will discuss one or two books (you will decide that ) , our discussion boards will be opened for you all to discuss what ever you want to talk about in that region ; from books to food and customs – feel free :)

Our regions are :

1- Maghreb countries : :Morocco, Mauritania ,Algeria, Tunisia and Libya

2- Nile valley and the Horn of Africa : : Egypt ,Sudan , Somalia , Djibouti, Comoros and we can even consider Eretria )

3- The Levant /sham :Palestine,Lebanon , Jordan, Syria and Israel.

4- The Arabian Peninsula :Bahrain, Kuwait ,Oman ,Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates ,Yemen and Iraq

5- west Asia : Turkey , Iran and -stan countries .

Before proceeding , we have two import remarks :

1- the group main Target is to have the ME literature enlightened , to explore the region by getting closer to his native citizens and unique cultures , so please avoid outsiders’ or foreigners’ books as much as you can in your recommendations , it is not going to be forbidden , of course we may need some , but within limited borders .

2- please remember that we may pass through a lot of sensitive and delicate subjects during sailing in the ME , so please be so courteous representing your believes and opinions and showing respect to other members opinions .

Now ;In this historical and full of contradictions and beauty region , we promise you magical Arabian nights , served on Persian carpets and cushions ,and with Turkish coffee and baklava .
wish you a (Bon voyage ) to share with us ..

Your cruise crew
M&N

I'm very exited about it... :D

I don't even know what Israel is.
Greetings.

NG
Thanks :D

Iroi

I agree Israel is not homogeneous with the rest of the region , but still part of it (geographically) , we could not skip that , besides : no one is forced to read or study what he does not want to .

Welcome back and Greeting :)

Okay dear members,
Nile Daughter and I realize that the inclusion of Israel would be problematic but we both feel it should be.

Israel has a large Arab minority within its borders, many Arab Jews exist in the world, and many European Jewish people have lived in the area long before the Israeli state was formed. Whether anyone thinks Israel was formed legally or not, it was formed and it exists. This is an extremely delicate subject and I think we all have something to learn about Israel itself, not to mention the dynamics of the entire region. So please, everybody, be respectful. If you are unable to be respectful, please refrain from posting any comments. Nile Daughter and I will carefully monitor remarks and we will delete any that we feel are inappropriate, we will discuss such instances privately with anyone whose posts we delete, and we reserve the right to block members from using this group. That goes for all controversial or taboo issues, not just Israel.

This is a place to learn and share thoughts and opinions. we are not here to solve the world's problems. However, these problems will almost certainly show up in the books we read and discuss together. We will not always agree with each other or how authors' portray things. It is certainly fine to disagree, but do not express disagreement in a way that attacks others or incites hatred.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

New to this literary space, but excited to be reading this literature in a different context. Thanks to all who are working to organize things.

Welcome Spencer!
We're just getting the ball rolling here but i think it's going to be a lot of fun.

I swear i thought you guys meant a real life cruise xD

Also, Marieke...I dont think you'll have bad comments about Israel. I think more people are realizing Israel is nice, Israeli's are also nice, but their government are the inhumane factor.

But...sadly, that is a part of life.
I do enjoy reading about Israel, glad to see it included.

I wish it were a real life cruise, too!!

That is how I feel, too, Amanda. But I know people, especially in the US, can get very emotional about the conflict. I don't want to have polarizing discussions here. I hope we can create a nice friendly space here where everyone feels safe to talk about difficult topics. And I hope I didn't put anyone off with my remarks above! :D

This is cool! I thought you meant a real cruise LOL, but that's still cool!
I like the way Paulo Coelho portrayed Morocco and Libya in The Alchemist and as you may know the setting of this novel was in North Africa so I vote for The Alchemist to be among the books that we discuss.

Marieke wrote: "But I know people, especially in the US, can get very emotional about the conflict."
emotional for Israel or against it?

Nagwan wrote: "Marieke wrote: "But I know people, especially in the US, can get very emotional about the conflict."
emotional for Israel or against it?"

In America, usually FOR Israel.
But Muslims are sometimes too emotional when it comes to Palestine, and therefore hate Israeli's and Israel. They forget there are Muslims in Israel, and they forget not all Israeli's hate Arabs and Muslims.

It's a very touchy subject depending on what their stance is and if they are misinformed.

Sorry to be dense - but what do you mean by "outsiders' or foreigner's books?".
Are we reading only authors from the country under discussion? What about people who have migrated from their country of origin or are relating the stories of family members who have lived through experiences?

So, for Jan/Feb it's the Maghreb countries? (I've never heard that term before so that's a good start!!)

Nagwan wrote: "This is cool! I thought you meant a real cruise LOL, but that's still cool!
I like the way Paulo Coelho portrayed Morocco and Libya in The Alchemist and as you may know the setting of this novel wa..."

haha! i really wish it were real!

and amanda summed up the problem that the israeli-palestinian conflict presents for americans perfectly. maybe i jumped ahead of things a little by posting all these behavior-warnings, but amanda's thoughts are very encouraging. :)

DubaiReader wrote: "Sorry to be dense - but what do you mean by "outsiders' or foreigner's books?".
Are we reading only authors from the country under discussion? What about people who have migrated from their country..."

Hi Dubai Reader--i need to talk to Nile Daughter to make sure, but i think probably it would be fine to include books by expats who are very familiar with the country and its culture. we do that in the Africa group i moderate. but we try to find a book from a native person first. it's hard to do that for some countries, though, especially if a country's literature has not been translated into English.

yes, we are starting with the Maghreb and i think we may do two polls to have two choices available to members. One poll for books from any country in the region except Algeria and one poll for books from just Algeria. Algeria is a large country with a lot of literature so we thought it would make a good "feature country" or "guest of honor" on our cruise.

do you guys like that idea? members can choose to read either or both books (and additional books!) but if we have two main books to focus on we think it will increase members' chances to participate and increase our knowledge of the region. These first two months will be kind of an experiment, in any case.

Excellent! I'm looking forward to the cruise. :-) Thanks for getting it organized.

I like the idea of two books - one from a "guest of honor" and another from a different country in the region.

Sorry I didn't know that the group admins admit presence of savage military group called Israel as a middle east country

N.B> no need to block me as a closed-mind person , I'm already leaving !

For Israel debate
I want to make some points clear :

- Part of studding the middle east , is studding the boiling heart of it , which means The Arabic/Israeli conflict and the Palestinian cause , which includes two sides to study to reach a better understanding , specially to those who are not involved with it .

In other words : Including Israel in our group ; does not represent any political situation of the group , which means : The group is not supporting or defending Israel, our goal is to provide the chance to explore the ME , his realty without propagandas and media’s manipulations or ancient inherited believes

Please ,We really wish to delay this subject (Palestine/Israel) to the point we reach that region .

- we are not accusing anyone of being ( narrow minded , anti-simist , fundamental…etc) , nor controlling believes and nor opinions nor causes . Marieke was referring to the courteous , thoughtful speech , polite and peaceful conversations , this concerns all our up-coming subjects and discussions .

blocking members will not be an usual or even a preferable decisions for us to make , I am sure you will not make us need it . :)

All my dear friends
- This group is moderated by (east-west administration), this aimed to reach a balance that the group can communicate by it with all of us in a peaceful way , I really hope we can succeed in that , this can not be done without your help .:)

**********
Now to a lighter topic :
I am glad you liked the idea of the cruise :D

For "outsiders' or foreigner's books
I guess Marieke’s note was clear , and for Nagwan’s note about (the Alchemist ) , ohhh I read it :), it is a good novel , only we canexplore these countries’ culture better through their local literature , specially there are plenty of them but t will be kept in mind ;)

Soon we will be launching our trip , so get ready ;)

I'm looking forward to the cruise through the region and I appreciate your efforts to set the tone for respectful and honest dialogue. Speaking for myself, I am the first to admit that I may have some preconceived notions, but I'm looking forward to the discussions in this group to help me be more informed about the region. If my beliefs can't withstand critical analysis, then that would indicate to me that I need to re-examine those ideas and be willing to revise the same. Either way, I am entering into this with the hope of developing a deeper understanding and appreciation for this region.

Wendy , thank you for your post ,I really hope that this group will be a useful learning place for all of us . :)

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DubaiReader wrote: "What about people who have migrated from their country of origin or are relating the stories of family members who have lived through experiences?

..."

Sorry I forgot to answer that one , They are native authors too , go a head and recommend :)

Niel Daughter, what a wonderful cruise is planned!!! The organizer deserves some stars!

chrisse , Thank you !!:D

Welcome back , I hope you spent nice time :) I really wish you can join us in this cruise !

Nie Daughter I love hearing of all the great books, but I am pretty bad at reading for group reads..... I have already added several.

I hope your holiday celebrations on the 7th will be fun too!

Chrissie , Good luck with your readings , Thank you for your sweet wishes ; I wish for the same :)

I'm looking forward to the cruise :) I'm sure we will learn a lot. Thank you again Nile Daughter, Marieke & Marcia for this excellent idea.

What a wonderful idea - I look forward to joining the cruise, especially after the wonderful Revolution in Egypt which has alerted us all to the aspirations of the people in that country and perhaps to other countries in the region. Thankyou for the superb photographs too!

MadgeUK wrote: "What a wonderful idea - I look forward to joining the cruise, especially after the wonderful Revolution in Egypt which has alerted us all to the aspirations of the people in that country and perhap..."

it's great to have you with us, MadgeUK! so far the cruise has been great. no mutinies, only peaceful revolutions. :D