Science Fiction Aficionados discussion

I completely forgot that I was heading this one. I hope Maggie doesn't skin me alive and leave my dying carcass out for Aloha to find...

is our winner for the random read this month. I've been wanting to read this one, so I'm looking forward to it.

Please keep plot, characterizations, favorite scenes, etc, in mind when commenting. Also, please use spoiler tags.

Happy reading!

I just finished reading it! I'm anxious so start rolling out the spoilers and debating :) Anyone?

Oh..edited to add...I just realized you said we can post with spoiler warnings. Cool.

I finished this last night. I enjoyed it immensely.
As with some other books I've read, it does reiterate the folly of war.

Kathy wrote: "I finished this last night. I enjoyed it immensely.
As with some other books I've read, it does reiterate the folly of war."

Of this, I do not doubt. In my copy the author wrote a forward in which he says that he was a combat photographer in Vietnam. So, he's been there and knows what he's talking about.

Jason wrote: "I completely forgot that I was heading this one. I hope Maggie doesn't skin me alive and leave my dying carcass out for Aloha to find...

is our winner for the r..."

Jason-that is just NOT my style! lol

I finished a reread of this one yesterday.
The copy I have says that Haldeman was an engineer, and was quite badly wounded during the Vietnam war. The inference from the book seems to be that he found the war completely futile and totally unwarranted. I'm not quite old enough, or the right nationality, to know much about the Vietnam war so am unable to draw too many parallels, but I hope some others here might be able to do that for me.
The issue I'm reading, SF Masterworks, says that it is the authors definitive version with the original middle section restored. What version is everyone reading and does anyone know the differences, as I've only ever read this updated one.

Maggie, I was hoping that was your style. I'm so disappointed....

Jason wrote: "I completely forgot that I was heading this one. I hope Maggie doesn't skin me alive and leave my dying carcass out for Aloha to find...

is our winner for the r..."

Well Aloha, I will just say I am a little more subtle in my tortures...I beleive in enslaving cabana boys to make me drinks....Unfortunately, Jason's marrried, so there might be protests, so I have to think of something else....lol

Alright, I finished this, but have to say it fell a little flat for me. I had read the first few chapters before as the story "Hero" in an anthology, and all of that part is pretty interesting. Their training, trying to set up camp on a hostile world, then their first massacre, I mean battle. i even liked the parts about space travel, the close quarter monotony was interesting, as well as the basic technical stuff. The encouraged promiscuity was some what laughable, this just isn't going to work in real life, no matter what.
The way that they had long range sub-marine style space battles was boring. Sure, it may be nerve racking for the participant, but as an outside observer, it was really boring. Like reading about a game of Battleship.
Then there was all of the really messy time dilation. It was handled well by the characters, even the author. The way it was written was interesting, a little confusing, even so that every once in awhile it was explained again to the reader, but the author tried to keep it straight forward. The evolution of combat tactics was dealt with adequately, let's just say that there wasn't anything for the author to draw upon, so he was going by the seat of his pants. So it made sense, although the stasis field was a little silly. But, still....Boring...
Classic sci-fi,ambitious, definitely relevant, but out-dated.

Good review, Chris. I'll start on that after the Dick book.

I just started this this morning, after finally finishing A Dance with Dragons...lol So far, it seems pretty good.

I might read this again even though I read it about two month ago, since its so small.

I just started reading this book and I'm strangely affected by it. Jason's post about the author being a combat photographer makes a lot of sense. He gives effective snap shots of the aftermath of battle that remind me of war pictures from any number of battles. For me, that's what captures the cost of war and begs the question, "Is it worth it?" I'm not far enough along to give it a thumbs up or thumbs down yet, but I like this aspect of the story.

@ Chris. Trust me, I am retired Navy 21 1/2 years. It gets boring underway. We used to have a saying "Join the Navy, See the world." Then someone would chime in with "Yea, and 75% of it's covered by water." Trust me if going to sea is like "going to prison with a chance of drowning," (Dutch, from Soap, TV show 70s era), then going into space for years has to be worse, unless you can sleep.

Really enjoyed it, been nice to get back to a bit of classic sci-fi.

I finished this this morning.

I did enjoy it, otherwise, I wouldn't have finished it,but for the most part it was just "meh" for me.

What interested me the most was (view spoiler)[how humans evolved over the course of the 1000+ years of the novel's timeline. The many changes The Earth and humans went through was really fascinating to me, but all the war stuff, which is usually what entertains me, was boring. Just my two cents, though. I also felt that the characters didn't react strongly enough in certain circumstances. But that could have been the writing alone.

That last part sounds like a stab at the writing style, but it's not. It reads almost like a journal, without it being a journal, but there is a sort of detachment between the narrator and the events that happen within the book. It reads sort of like Black Company books for that reason alone. The prose itself, however, sort of reminded me of Hemingway's simple style. (hide spoiler)]

Over all, this is a good book. But it didn't blow me away. It also wasn't a page turner. 3.5 stars, which is a good rating, I think.

I really tried to get through this book. It tooke me three weeks just to get half way through. I don't know why but I could not get into it. So, I've decided to put it off to the side and maybe some time in the future I'll give it another try.

Christina wrote: "I really tried to get through this book. It tooke me three weeks just to get half way through. I don't know why but I could not get into it. So, I've decided to put it off to the side and maybe som..."

Christina, I had the same reaction to it. I liked it well enough, but could not connect with it. It will be one I'll have to return to later also.

Can anyone here compare Forever War with other Military sci fi, like Weber's Honor Herrington or Campbell's The Lost Fleet? What series would you say is better?

Ok you asked the question forever ago, but I've been lazy about the internet lately (lol RL, it happens :) ).
Re: How does Forever War compare to other military scifi.
I haven't read Herrington but I have read Campbell's entire Lost Fleet series except for the last one (which I'll read soon for completionist sake).

I've also read other military scifi such as Old Man's War- which if you read Forever War, you'll realize that there are some similarities.

I would think that Forever War would stand head and shoulders above the Lost Fleet. I'm not ex military so I'm not an expert on tactics but Lost Fleet seemed to lack a lot of character development and was extremely heavy on space maneuvering/tactics IMO. I did enjoy the story/series but personally I think it's apples and oranges compared to something like Forever War which is a stand alone story and altogether higher quality IMO.

I rather enjoyed Forever War more than I expected. I wasn't bored at all. I actually found his descriptions and plot consequences of time dilation to be interesting and not something most scifi authors really bother with, often, except to gloss over it with suspended animation mostly.

I absolutely enjoyed that although the story was about war, was consumed by war, and the logistics of this war that the protagonist got his HEA. For those of you that do not even read anything romance related HEA= Happily Ever After. I'm a romantic to the core, and /sigh, totally awesome the way this book ended!

When I read The Lost Fleet series I feel like Geary, the protagonist is rushing about focusing intently on war war war pew pew and his poor little assistant woman (whatever her name was) is standing woodenly by his side hoping for a scrap of humanity LOL. Oh but we have to do a loop te loop to save our asses! No kissing or love!
Ok- I know it's survival, but humans are not logical Spocks.

Chris wrote: "the close quarter monotony was interesting, as well as the basic technical stuff. The encouraged promiscuity was some what laughable, this just isn't going to work in real life, no matter what."

I asked a friend of mine about this. He said that when he served on a nuclear submarine, the sub went down with 100 men and came back up with 50 couples.

Forever War is an all-time great. I read the short story (maybe in the same anthology? Battles Beyond Tomorrow?). It's great as a short story and even better as a novel.

With regard to the Vietnam aspect- I don't think Halderman was focused on criticizing the causes of the war (although he does) as much as he was the effects of the war on the soldiers who fight it. Every time they come home, it's like they missed a century. I lived overseas for 2 1/2 years as a kid in the 80s. It's not the same as fighting a war, but the sense of dislocation is there.

Aaaaaaaand we're back! The absent-minded moderators here at Ye Olde Science Fiction Aficionados overlooked the fact that we've already read this one. You got a free pass, The Forever War by Joe Haldeman.

So hey, enjoy the timeless discussion from 2016 and add your own comments! Feel free to repeat what has been said before! Time is circular and therefore meaningless! And hey, this very paragraph also functions as a meta-commentary on the themes of the timeless classic, The Forever War!

The novel won the Nebula Award in 1975, and the Hugo and the Locus awards in 1976.

hehehehe-I noticed it AFTER the poll was well-going, but figured it was long enough ago to let it slide.

MArk! DO you realize how long we've been doing this? For forever!

Maggie wrote: "For forever!"

LOL

I'm in for this one but probably won't start it until next week. I've been wanting to read this for a while now so I'm glad the group is re-reading it.

I have never read it either and will likely start next week. I’ve heard there’s a lot of rape though ☹️

ugh.

Lena wrote: "I have never read it either and will likely start next week. I’ve heard there’s a lot of rape though ☹️"

Not that I recall. Certainly not on a Game of Thrones level.

Lena wrote: "I have never read it either and will likely start next week. I’ve heard there’s a lot of rape though ☹️"

Well, I'm about a quarter of the way through and haven't run into any yet. I do like it so far, much better than it's predecessor Starship Troopers. Haldeman has a amusing way with words and his soldier dialogue sounds authentic. I didn't realize until I read his Wikipedia entry that Haldeman has a Purple Heart from serving in Vietnam.

Good. I should start soon.

mark wrote: "Aaaaaaaand we're back! The absent-minded moderators here at Ye Olde Science Fiction Aficionados overlooked the fact that we've already read this one. You got a free pass, The Forever War by Joe Hal..."

Personally I'm glad it happened. I have been wanting to read this for ages but this discussion finallly encouraged me to get my arse in gear.

I am only about 20% in but enjoying it so far. Being a big Scalzi fan I can understand the comparisons with Old Man's War and where there are similarities I think Scalzi comes off better (view spoiler)[ In such a deadly war rejuvenating and utilising your elderly population seems much more sensible that drafting the cream of the young intelligentsia who should be creating the next generation. (hide spoiler)]
I also agree (view spoiler)[the the sexual mores are quite dated and obviously influenced by 1960s-1970s ideas of free love and sexual liberation. With also a touch of the Patriarchal because most attention is given to the expectation of the women being available for the men. (hide spoiler)]

And there is the rape...
“...unleashed Stargate’s eighteen sex starved men on our women, compliant and promiscuous by military custom (and law) but desiring nothing so much as sleep...”

I think a gang rape scene with a cheering section is as bad as, if not worse, than Game of Thrones.

*sexual liberation and rape are not the same thing.

God just went back a page when I realized...
“The crew there was very glad to see us, especially the two females, who looked a little worn around the edges.”
A LITTLE WORN AROUND THE EDGES?!?!
They’ve been raped on a daily basis by 18 men!!!
This book is so fucked up.

The big war they’ve been preparing for is the equivalent of slaughtering baby seals.

“Catch a couple of the bastards, they won’t hurt you.”...
“We’ve got our prisoner,” Cortez shouted. ”Kill.”

This book is awful. How the fuck could this be a classic? Dune is a classic. 2001 is a classic. The Left Hand of Darkness is a classic.
This has sewer on it.

you are making me want to read this, if only to see if I hate it as much!

although I feel like I did read this at one point, when I was much younger. just can't recall a thing about it though.

That happens to me sometimes.
Maybe you blocked it out.

it kinda feels like it. the book doesn't sound like one I'd find appealing as a teen.

well I'm going to conduct a search of my stacks. if it's there, it will be added. but if not, I don't think I will be searching it out!

Halfway in. Strange world Earth has become. The governments encourages homosexuality for birth control and money is calories. It’s a dangerous, sad, overpopulated world.

Here I agree with Mandella, Better to make a deposit and get a vasectomy. I would absolutely do that if I was a man.

Page 189 “William, everybody on Earth is homosexual. Except for a thousand or so; veterans and incurables.”

I’ve heard it takes 21 days to break a habit. There’s probably no limit to what could be done in 500 years. Just in my lifetime it “seems” the world has gotten gayer.

The whole thing reminded me of Treva Harte’s The Deviants, only scary.

Ok, I finished. After the first third it ceased being a dumpster fire.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I enjoyed it a lot, has anyone read the other books in the series? I read online that they were not up to par.

Esther wrote: "Being a big Scalzi fan I can understand the comparisons with Old Man's War and where there are similarities I think Scalzi comes off better"

I felt like this book had some important things to say about humanity and the effects of war. I felt like Scalzi's book was more about entertainment.

I liked it overall and gave it 3 stars. The early goings I thought had more interesting dialogue that reminded me of Vietnam-war movies like Full Metal Jacket, particularly in the early going when the recruits were training. It sounded like it was written by someone with combat experience, and of course it was. Haldeman is probably the most recognized Purple-Heart-winning SciFi author ever, although I suppose that's a pretty small field. But by the end I just felt kind of worn out by the whole thing.

I understand your comment, Lena, about the sex scenes you mention above. At the time I read that part I think I probably skimmed them. They reminded me a little too much of some of Heinlein's stuff, and maybe even McCaffrey's Dragonflight, written back in the 60s-70s. I think Haldeman was probably trying to emphasize a shift in morals and tolerances in the future, as he did later in the story with humankind's change to homosexual majority, but it does come off poorly and nonconsensual to a modern reader.

It did. How about Old Man’s War? Similar problems or different ones?

Lena wrote: "It did. How about Old Man’s War? Similar problems or different ones?"

I haven't read that one yet.

On the one hand I find the author's view on sexuality and gender a weird mix of 1960s free-love and your basic caveman attitude.
Whenever he mentions homosexuality his handling of the subject makes me want to cringe.
But I am cringing in the way you do with a favourite Uncle who insists on making off-colour jokes, because I find the writing exciting and look forward to reading more everytime I pick up the book.
And then there is the fact that future Earth is completely depressing.

Chris wrote: "Alright, I finished this, but have to say it fell a little flat for me. I had read the first few chapters before as the story "Hero" in an anthology, and all of that part is pretty interesting. The..."

Totally agreed.

I finally finished! I found some good and bad parts, mostly in a similar vein as everyone else is saying. My e-book had three chapters of Forever Free attached, which actually seemed interesting....so I might keep on.