The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

First of all sorry for my lack of participation in the previous weeks discussion. Things have been a bit hectic around here and I have not had much time. But I am starting to get back more into the normal grove of things.

So Here is Book 8 which consists of the chapters:

1. THE CROWN CHANGED INTO A DRY LEAF.
2. CONTINUATION OF THE CROWN WHICH WAS CHANGED INTO A DRY LEAF.
3. END OF THE CROWN WHICH WAS TURNED INTO A DRY LEAF.
4. LASCIATE OGNI SPERANZA--LEAVE ALL HOPE BEHIND, YE WHO ENTER HERE.
5. THE MOTHER.

In Book 6 we were given the story of Paquette and the tragic story of her stolen daughter, which also gave us another view of the past of Quasimodo. It seems the lives of Esmerelda and Quasimodo have come to be destined to cross paths with each other. And I wonder if in these chapters a greater connection in their fates is now revealed which also ties the strange tale of Paquette more into the story.

Does any one else begin to suspect that in fact Esmerelda is the missing daughter of Paqueatte? We know that Esmerelda is trying to find her own mother and knows not of where she originally came, there is some mystery about her past.

And Paquette reveres the only shoe she has left of her daughter, which were are constantly told is such a tiny little shoe. Juxtaposed to the fact that Esmerelda's on feet are described also as being quite small.

And part of Paquettes great hatred of Esmerelda in particularly is the fact that it is remarked she is about the same age as her own daughter would have been.

Silver - I think that in this book Hugo does almost as much foreshadowing and hint-dropping as it is possible for a writer to do!

It seems highly likely that Paquette/Sister Gudule is the mother of Esmeralda, whom she believes was kidnapped by gipsies, which was a common folklore tale.

On the subject of the shoe and Esmerelda's feet, Victor Hugo was known to be an admirer of women's feet, a foot fetishist. There are a number of erotic references to feet in HND.

I had the same impression about the connection of Esmeralda, Quasimodo and Paquette. I was even wondering whether Esmeralda might still have the other shoe and would be able match it with Paquette's little shoe. Unfortunately, I am still behind and still in the middle of book 7 .

Hedi wrote: "I had the same impression about the connection of Esmeralda, Quasimodo and Paquette. I was even wondering whether Esmeralda might still have the other shoe and would be able match it with Paquette'..."

That is an interesting thought. She does have that amulet which she was told would lead her back to her mother. I wonder if her charm is connected to the shoe and has to do with it in some way.

MadgeUK wrote: "On the subject of the shoe and Esmer..."

I am not sure why, but your comment about the foot fetish gave me a good chuckle. Thanks Madge.

Just read chapter 4. Maybe I've spent too much time with my teens this summer, but near the end of the archdeacon's speech, it seemed, at least in my translation, like a teen's "That's what she said" joke. "Then I sank into the corner of the window, stiffer and more helpless than a fallen statue. The vesper bell aroused me. I rose to my feet; I fled; but alas! something within me had fallen which could never be raised up.."
If Frollo was a tormented teen I could feel sorry for him. I would have thought that during this time the church wouldv'e turned a blind eye to some seed sowing by their higher ranking clergy.

Also, there is a lot of talk of predestination. For some reason I thought that was more of a Protestant belief. I know Catholics believe(d) in original sin, but thought that after baptism, it was all free will.

The catholic church, accepts predestination of the elect to heaven, but also affirms the freedom of the human will, which is different to Protestant Calvinism which teaches that all is predestined. In Catholicism, predestination to hell always involves man's free will, and foreseen sins, so that man is ultimately responsible for his own damnation, not God.

http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/nu...

Frollo's fall from grace echoes the fall of the church itself, of its masonry, of its ministry and of its influence. Protestantism is on the way, the people are questioning the divine power of the church. Thirty-five years later Luther would pin his Ninety-Five theses on the door of his catholic church and Calvin would have a religious conversion from catholicism to Protestantism, as it came to be called, and founded Calvinism, the theory of absolute predestination - a belief in the 'absolute sovereignty of God in the salvation of the human soul from death and eternal damnation'. Times they were a-changin.

Frollo's gracious beginnings and humane behaviour towards his brother and towards Quasimodo have been corrupted by the corruption of the church itself. Maybe Hugo is criticising his unnatural celibacy? It was at this time that many monastic orders and seminaries were founded where men (and women) were instructed to be chaste. That this proved difficult in the face of many tempting Esmeraldas is illustrated by the numerous sex manuals then written advising priests on the evils of sex in all its forms, which was to be kept for the marriage bed only and then only in the 'missionary position', as advised by St Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.

MadgeUK wrote: "Frollo's fall from grace echoes the fall of the church itself, of its masonry, of its ministry and of its influence. Protestantism is on the way, the people are questioning the divine power of the ..."

I did find it a bit ironic that Hugo was writing a story in which the main "character" was a church, and of which it seemed the building itself, and the architecture of the time he had a great deal of respect and admiration for. Yet at the same time it seems that throughout this novel, from the starting things off with the Festival of Fools, Hugo has been very critical of the institution of the religion in of itself.

Frollo makes quite the sinister character and not in the least bit sympathetic but rather is transformed into a villain, misusing the poor Quasimodo whom trusts him to be kidnap the innocent Esmeralda to try and satisfy his own lusts. And than when Quasimodo is punished for the deeds that were his own doing, or at least at his own bidding he completely turns his back upon him and does nothing to try and help him but lets him suffer.

It does certainly seem as if there is a strong criticism about the expectation of chastity which goes agasint all basic human nature.

In some ways Frollo reminds me of the story The Monk in the way in which we have this man whom has strived very hard in his life to be pious and holy but the moment when he is confronted with a temptation that consumes him, he allows it to transform him into something corrupt and his soul becomes grotesque.

It is as if being in that position of having to suppress his natural desires and urges and being trained that it was sinful and evil to have such thoughts and wantings forced himself to than become that which his religion has told him he must be.

In a way Frollo is quite a tragic figure, even if repulsive, becasue one might wonder if his love for Esmeralda might not have taken a more innocent turn if he were not in fact under the influence of religion and if he was allowed to freely express his feelings without shame or guilt.

Perhaps Gringore is a reflection of how Frollo's love could have manifested itself if not burdened by the religion.

Yes, one can see how Frollo's youthful loving character changed and Hugo seems to hint that this was because of the celibacy of the priesthood.

Luther not only rebelled against the catholic church's sale of indulgences but against celibacy too. He wrote of the Catholic Church's leaders: 'They were completely unjustified in forbidding marriage and in burdening the priesthood with the demand of continual celibacy. In doing so they have acted like . . . tyrannical, unholy scoundrels, occasioning all sorts of terrible, ghastly, countless sins against chastity, in which they are caught to this day.'

Hugo's view on religion changed drastically over his lifetime. He was a practising catholic in bhis youth and then began to criticise both the church and its priests. When in Guernsey he became interested in Spiritualism and attended seances - then very fashionable. Returning to France he took up Voltaires Rationalist Deism and finally when asked if he was a catholic by a Cenus taker in 1872, he replied that he was a Freethinker. Quite a journey! The idea of celibacy would not have sat well with Hugo as he was, by all accounts, a very sexually active guy.