Indie Book Club discussion

Let the good times roll! I just purchased my copy and have it installed on my iPad. Will start reading shortly!

I'll start reading, too...oh...nevermind. :)

And yes, I'll be obsessively trolling the forums, ready to answer any questions that arise.

Jim, how many words is it?

198,000+

Nice. Gotta love a good, long book! My first is only 127,000+.

How long did it take you to write it? Did you go through many edits and proofs?

Well...this is kind of a story in itself. I had been meaning to write it for about six months. The main two characters were beating the crud out of my brain for a loooong time before that. As of April of this year...I had 10 pages done.

Then came my surgery and the inevitable bed-rest.

The day I was able to sit up without wanting to scream and die, I decided to get started, lest I put it off more, or worse, never write it. I wrote 10-20k words a day when I wasn't editing from May of this year to early June. Never written like that before, but once I got into the story, I was shocked at how the characters and story-arc developed itself. I blame it on the pain meds from surgery.

Editing...lots. After the story gets going, every chapter (I think from about chapter four on) went through no less than two full rewrites. I did two massive sweeps through the book for my own edification, then my wife read it. Then I edited again based on her feedback. Then I had two pro editors go through and did revisions based on that. Then I made it public and did two more revisions based on initial feedback, as they found a few typos.

So in short (not something I'm good at), the book was written in 42 days, then went through 5 full revisions and massive edits.

Sad part is, even at almost 200,000 words, I have 30k written that doesn't quite fit into the book (it's almost a side-story) and could write another 50k on side elements.

Thanks for getting the topic started Jeff. Totally spaced that one! I'll have to wait till friday to pick up my copy, but I'll get into it ASAP. Looking forward to the read.

Impressive. I've written large chunks at a time, but it doesn't happen often. Book I took me a helluva long time. Of course, I wasn't really striving to finish it as soon as possible. Book II was much quicker. Book III already has a decent chunk out of it. :)

I know what you mean about edits. No matter how many times I edit it, or get people to proofread, or have an editor look at it, I still find things I'd like to change. And if I change one part, then inevitably I have to change another so I don't screw up the continuity.

If you don't mind me asking, what happened to you? You mentioned pain meds and lots of bed-rest. Were you in an accident?

Jim got your book featured as book of the month on the blog now too. Man my brain is fried today.

I was in a horrific car accident a few years ago (the other guy's engine block actually rolled across the road if that helps visualize). I thought I recovered, then this year, I had part of my spine collapse onto the nerve lines for my arms. They had to fuse the vertebrae in my neck.

Doing muuuch better now, though. :)

Scott - Anytime! Thought I might as well get the ball rolling!

At times it makes me feel like I'm back in school. Waaaaaay back in school doing book reports. :)

Ouch! Major uber ouch! Sorry to hear that, man!

Wow man that's bad, still it got the book out of you! Going to download it now too, but not sure if I'll be able to finish it by end of this month!

(Congrats on winning by the way, I'm sure it's well deserved!)

Wow, 200K words is a great accomplishment -- especially under adverse conditions. Congrats.

Picked up my copy yesterday. If this stupid flu leaves me alone today hopefully I'll get a good sized chunk knocked out.

Feel better!

Jim, are your characters modeled after people you know? Personalities, behaviors, etc?

Surprisingly, no (thank god in the case of Finth). Someone who knows my friends/family can probably make a case for some of the characters having specific traits that match specific people, but none are modeled directly or are entirely based on a singular person.

Since I don't plan out my characters--I let them build themselves--there was no attempt to put any of them in the context of a person I know.

Right about now, I'm sure a few of my friends are throwing fits about all that. My friends seem to have mostly come to the conclusion that Estin is me (maybe young Estin in some ways if you stretch it), Feanne is my wife (the temper perhaps), and Finth is a homeless guy down the road. I do not endorse these beliefs.

As for behaviors...in the case of the wildlings I actually spent a stupid amount of time watching animal videos trying to grab personality interpretations from their natural behavior.

Yes, I'm a dork. :)

Hey, nothing wrong with doing some, er, extensive research! :)

I finally got a chance to knock out a decent chunk of the book. I'm about a quarter of the way through and it's very good so far. Those necromancers pack a wallop for sure.

They aren't pleasant folks, no. :)

Glad you're enjoying! Eager to see what questions/discussions might come of the story.

Jim

"No, girls are not icky...they're just scary and eat souls."

awesome

I almost woke up my daughter laughing at that one.

Hehehe. At least now I know exactly where you are in the story. ;-)

I'm about 85% through the book now and there is one thing that has me a bit confused. At one point in the italicized "reflections" at the beginning of the chapter he mentions a sister and coming to an understanding about her. I never recall seeing his sister at all in the book before that.

I will admit that my daughter has smacked me in the face a few times while I was reading so I may have missed the paragraph that contained the original mention though.

Hrm, I'll check on that. There should be only two-ish references. Early on he mentions that she left when he was a child and then later he understands that seeking her out isn't going to end well given what he's finding in the world.

However, in early revisions she actually appeared in the story. What chapter header had the reference? I want to make sure it's not a carryover from that removed part.

Here it is. Didn't want to give any plot away with it.

(view spoiler)[I'm going to guess that he found her as a slave when he is captured? That's what the reference made me think of. It occurs in the first paragraph of Chapter 10. As I said I could have forgotten an earlier reference to her and just been surprised by the mention of her at that point. (hide spoiler)]

Doh! Nice catch (and you're right). Nearly a hundred sales and no one noticed that. I'll get that fixed in the next update. :)

Just finished this book, and must say your writing is very vivid! I loved all the thought you put into creating these beings that were very human, yet very not.

I think my favorite quote (though there were a lot!) was:
"Tell me I am not a slave, but put a leash on me and I will call you a liar."

So much packed into that short sentence.

Thanks! :)

*stomps on the cricket in the corner*

There. The discussion is safe again. *grin*

I wanted to share my review, since I finally got it posted on my site. Feel free to let me know what you think!

http://wp.me/P1DZPc-62

A wonderful review, thanks!

Since this is the official(esque) discussion and others aren't quite done yet, do you have any questions/queries/boggles or other random thoughts you would like to bring up Tricia?

Jim

There are so many questions, but most of them I think would lead to sequels!

Where did the idea for the story come from, specifically the undead army? What are they really seeking, since if they turn everyone there's no one left to turn?

More when I detach my 2 yr old from my arms...

Details on that below...
(view spoiler)[The Turessian army that we see in the book are actually the castoffs of an ancient and long-since disavowed practice of raising one's relatives as sentient undead. Turessi now only raises zombies and the like, for fear of exactly what happened. Their goals? Simple...enslave the world and remake it under the sway of the dead. The intention is to turn only as many bodies as they need...or any extras they find (ie, graveyards). (hide spoiler)]

As for where the idea came from, that's more complex and less spoiler-y. The story came from some thoughts I had bouncing around in my head about starcrossed lovers, but kept coming back to the idea of working with anthropomorphic characters. I couldn't find enough interest in my heart to write the story with just some random human guy and some girl...but when the little mental light came on with animal people, I was hooked, as it was weird enough to interest me. Picking the breeds...that was hard (though there is a specific reason I picked Estin's breed).

As for where the undead army came from. No clue. Free-flow writing just created them out of the blue. Something in the back of my mind said that something like the Turessians would be spooky...so poof, there they were. :)

Jim wrote: Picking the breeds...that was hard (though there is a specific reason I picked Estin's breed).

Oh do tell!!

(view spoiler)[His constant concern about whether his family or his people were still alive somewhere. The not knowing if he was alone.

Ringtail lemurs are almost extinct in real life. (hide spoiler)]

Ah, that is true. It is a good choice, especially when a tail was needed. Also makes his relationship with Feanne much more complicated.

Was it hard to write in a way that would be believable to the reader and yet still have a prey animal develop a backbone, so to speak? And where did you come up with the names?

Feanne's leapt out at me from nowhere (just since I hear a lot of weird pronunciations it is "Fey-enne" or "Fey-anne"). It was unplanned but felt so perfect I never thought about changing it. Estin took about 10min of staring at the ceiling before it came together. No real way I can explain my process on that other than staring at the "face" of a character in my head until the name I would call them snapped to the forefront of my brain.

The backbone...yeah. I had to work to not put him in situations where Feanne would treat him like...well...Alafa. I wouldn't call it hard, but it was something I had to be constantly aware of and watch for, just in case. Didn't want to go back, reread a section, and say to myself, "Right there...Feanne would have had her prey instinct kick in and would have murdered him."

On a side note: I got my paper copy today!

Woot. That was fast. :)

Yeah, it was! I ordered it on Black Friday with my Christmas Lites books! Both books look fabulous!

Jim, I have a question for you. Maybe this is just me, but it seems to me that Feanne's character started out with an almost regal personality, but then as (view spoiler)[ Estin helped her escape and began to live a life of freedom in her pack, she seems to have abruptly switched to, ummm, to... bitchy. :) Sorry, I don't mean anything negative about that, but I just didn't see that cold-heartedness coming from her when she was first introduced. I think you've written your characters very well, but her character just struck me as odd. (hide spoiler)]

I have several other questions lined up, so don't worry. Even though this is December, this topic isn't going anywhere anytime soon!

This is the second anthropomorphic novel I've read and I must say, you've done an admirable job making your characters both human and (at times) feral.

I can actually answer that pretty easily...inside more spoiler tags! :)

(view spoiler)[My wife describes Feanne's personality in D&D terms as "Chaotic-WTF." Like most of the other animals, she's based on my observations of red foxes here in Colorado. They're amazingly loving critters...until something rubs them wrong and they gnaw your face off.

Feanne's "regal" aspect is entirely her own pride over who she is, her capabilities (including the curse), etc. The idea of having to be concerned for someone else's well being or feelings grates on her in an awful way. Honestly, she'd rather claw out her own eyes then have someone depend on her, even indirectly. She initially views Estin as a liability and that grows the bitchiness towards him fast.

Much as Estin grows to stop being so self-focused and "lemurish" (is that a word?), Feanne has to grow out of her own internal issues. She could have made those steps much faster, but the loss of her children pretty well buggers her up for a while. When she comes out of that, anger and rage is the only way she found to keep the pack in line. It's Estin's reintroduction to her life that has her start thinking about who she's become again, allowing her the growth towards the end of the novel to be as calm and responsible as Estin's also become.

In rereading that last paragraph, it sounds kind of sexist, but that wasn't the intent. Estin's a MUCH bigger mess without her than she was without him. (hide spoiler)]

Hope that helps.

What was the other anthro novel you read and was it any good? Most I find are very...uh...suited to a specific audience, or else are for children.

Ok, that totally helps. Glad I wasn't going crazy! :)

Like I said before, you've done a really great job bringing out the animalistic qualities of your characters. It's incredibly realistic to me, but then again, I'm biased. I'm a former zookeeper and I used to work with all kinds of animals, including quite a few of the ones you have in your book. Well, the humanized versions of them. :)

As for the other book, let me think. Author's name was Hugo something... I wrote a review on it and left it.... Duh. It's on my own blog. Jeeez. :) Here it is:

I had agreed to read the novel before I learned anything about it. A free fantasy story? I'm all for it. Then I saw the cover he did. I squinted at it. Were those humanoid animals? Hoo boy. What have I gotten myself into? I almost passed it up, but I'm really glad I didn't, 'cause it was really well written. I was flabbergasted to learn that I really enjoyed it.

As a result of Hugo's book, I decided to be more open to any other anthropomorphic stories. I've come across a few, but as you mentioned, they looked as though they were geared towards 12 year olds. I passed on them.

Then I saw yours, read the description, and thought, I will give this one a chance. Great story so far, Jim!

No, you weren't going crazy, but Feanne might be. *whistles innocently*

Interesting link. I might have to check it out before I get over my brief anthro phase (which I blame on either In Wilder Lands, or the pain meds they had me on when I wrote it, hehehe).

"So far"...guess I need to be careful with my spoilers. :)

(view spoiler)[My wife describes Feanne's personality in D&D terms as "Chaotic-WTF." (hide spoiler)]

That is an awesome way to describe Feanne's personality! And something I can relate to.

Thanks for sharing the other book, Jeffery, I'm going to check it out as well.

By the way, I like those dream sequences you have at the beginnings of some chapters and how you have them italicized.

Do you have a sequel written for this?