Olivier’s review of American Kingpin: The Epic Hunt for the Criminal Mastermind Behind the Silk Road > Likes and Comments
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Do you have any suggestions for alternative reads?
Hi Anthony,
https://freeross.org/
has articles, documents about the case and Ross himself.
It has a link to a decent film documentary which I saw also explaining the concepts involved with the Silk Road web site such as deep web and bitcoin.
Thanks
reason.com / reason.org have organized free screenings of `Deep Web' and published articles as well.
Perhaps we read a different book. All that you say above is correct. The young man was not violent, sounded brilliant, likeable and a "good" person. I got that from the book. What I also got is that he was a drug dealer. He also sold any and all illegal items that any person (violent or not)wanted to sell. (body parts, guns, etc). I cry for him that he let his misguided libertarian views lead him to this occupation. I suspect there is no way to even tell all the sad things that happened because of the free flow of products made available by this young man. I wander what he could have done with his intelligence if he had chosen a different path.
The point of the review was to debunk the assertions you list above. https://freeross.org/ will inform you more on the case and the merits of Ross's work.
Thanks.
Are you saying the young man did not create silk Road, did not have any connections to silk road?
No, but if you read the material on https://freeross.org you will see for example that silk road was a good thing from the viewpoint of drug ill-effects mitigation.
Thanks
I did review the website. That's where we have to disagree, my friend. Having seen firsthand the horror of heroin usage – no one involved in the distribution of anything so insidious can call themselves innocent. He's bad judgment caused much sorrow, even death. I cry for him as I do those who purchased his poison.
I have seen firsthand the lesser horror of Cannabis usage and it is bad enough for me so I am with you on that. Ross did not cause sorrow or death and did not sell anything--let alone poison. Whoever wants to purchase drugs will do it one way or another. The War On Drugs will always fail and is a cure worse than the disease. Silk Road provided a safer way for the addicted person to do it instead of getting assaulted by a dealer or getting a tainted product or getting incarcerated.
Sorry - we are supposed to be a nation of laws. If you don't agree with them do something about it to change them. A society can't just follow the rules they believe in and break the ones they don't like. There are consequences to your actions.
The real crime is he choose the wrong path in life. With all he had going for him, he chose to sell illegal mushrooms instead of doing something worthwhile. He knew what he was doing and continued to let it escalate. No one knows how many people were harmed by the drugs he helped distribute.
I can't speak to whether the server was obtained illegally and it seemed there were government agents that also got into the drug business also. That is a separate issue. The fact remains: Ross knowing broke the law and now must face consequences. Whether you agree with the length of the sentence, is really a mute point.
Ross did not sell illegal mushrooms.
If some did buy from the Silk Road site, it was because it was safer.
The length of the sentence is not a mute (or even moot) point--there is always jury nullification in our nation of laws.
Anyway, my review was not about judging Ross but to point out the inaccuracies of the book.
People don't necessarily read a book cover to cover when it is excruciatingly packed with nonsense. Otherwise, you would get no 1-star negative review.
Some magazine articles written about the book with an interview of the author:
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
I read the book, Oliver clearly didn't and his review is pointless. Oliver writes "Bilton portrays Ross as having arranged murder-for-hire, yet this was never proven and Ross was not charged with this at trial": the book says that; "Ross is not a computer programmer or coder and never was": the book says that. But Ross did indeed broke the law and facilitated the selling of drugs, arms, and even body parts. Body parts, for god sake. He profited exploiting the weakness and desperation of other people. As Sandi said, there are consequences to your actions.
There are dozens of Ross fanboys out there, you'll never win an argument with them. Bilton's work was incredibly researched and he is a highly respected journalist. There was no personal vendetta here. Sadly, the truth hurts.
Ashley wrote: "There are dozens of Ross fanboys out there, you'll never win an argument with them. Bilton's work was incredibly researched and he is a highly respected journalist. There was no personal vendetta h..."
you're so right!
Ross' biggest crime was that he was naive. he didn't realize what he was going up against. and the government is too stupid to realize they just created a new opportunity for someone or multiple people to come in and do the same thing. will these people be as harmless as ross? they can't be or they will share the same fate. the next person(s) to do this will be forced to be violent because of the government.
people in this thread actually believe that it's wrong for him to create a marketplace to allow people to buy and sell whatever they want but when those things turn out to be things they disagree with, they suddenly want freedoms stripped away. i wonder how many of these same people are mad at doctors prescribing codeine (heroin) like it's a fashion trend right now. it's ok for an MD to give you heroin but not ok when someone goes around the government to give you heroin?
Hi Sean,
Yes, I am saddened Ross was naive like that whereas he must have seen what Snowden and Assange went through. Chuck Shumer who appointed the judge to go after him saw the threat of the parallel tax-free market place more and used drug war as a pretext.
Other platforms have sprung up and there is no reason why they would create violence because their purpose is to go around street-based illegal market places.
Nice pointing out the moral hazard created by insurance-reimbursed painkillers suddenly available to 20 million more people.
Thanks
i would just like some intellectual consistency from these people for once. it's like they all become like winston smith in 1984 simultaneously believing that 2 + 2 = 4 and 5
but what can you expect from a generation like sandi's? one decade they are at woodstock promoting free love and doing all kinds of drugs and other degeneracy. ten years later these same people are voting for reagan.
What nonfiction writer or book would you recommend?
Ross obviously did attempt to have those ppl killed. That was his personal downfall imo. By doing that, he strayed from his own moral principles, made it easy to convict and label him as a "dangerous criminal", and lost the support and sympathy of those who believed in Silk Road. I personally wud love to see Ross get out one day. I imagine he'll be able to buy some favors wth his bitcoin stash, and I hope he does. But let's call a spade a spade. He gambled big and got busted. And created a fascinating story.
Hello Sean,
It's most interesting that you know and understand an entire generation so well. Having been mentioned by name in your post, I will respond. I'm not responding for my entire generation, however, because that would be a very stupid, narrow-minded, and biased thing to do. I am responding based on my life only. While I know Woodstock happened I certainly wasn't there. I was too busy working to put myself through college. I am not a drug user nor have I EVER been a drug user. The values and morals I have today are the same ones I had as a student, a wife, a mother, a CPA, and now a senior citizen. Yes, I am conservative in all aspects of my life.
My children are a part of your generation. Based on their character, beliefs, etc, I would observe that you have little in common with them.
"I'm not going to respond for my entire generation cause that would be stupid.
Also, I'm going to generalize you based off 4 sentences I read about you."
ABALT
all boomers are like that
also, if your children don't share my beliefs and character you failed as a mother
WTF is going on with this apologist/denial crap? this is supposed to be a review of the book
Unfortunately Drew, like 90 percent of internet talk, they've digressed. Hopefully, they'll stick to book reviews in the future. Reading is completely subjective. If you make the wrong comment, or they do not like your review, they let you know.
This book was hard to review without your personal values being revealed. Sean chose to attack me by name for them. I got a notification that you posted to Sean. Being personally degraded for a book which I gave a favorable review is really out of line. I used to enjoy Goodreads but I do not appreciate the name-calling and character bashing I experienced here.
I’m sure there are other book clubs I can join. I don’t need this. If Sean didn’t like my damn review he should’ve just moved on.
sandi, you made moronic points and you haven't even read the book. you just took whatever mainstream media news outlet you watch, grafted those opinions as your own, and are now upset that you are being called out.
also, you told me that i have poor character and beliefs which is much more of an egregious attack then anything i said about you. the difference is im not sitting here crying like a moron cause people aren't worshiping my every syllable. i guess if you can't take it, don't dish it out. sticks and stones, boomer
Obviously you have some unnamed personal agenda here. Are you a friend of the accused or of someone related to him? Your staunch and subjective defense of him makes me question your one-star review. I realize that reviews are always subjective, but as I said before, this seems to be personal for you. It would be nice if you would acknowledge as much.
Hi Sean, do you have any scientific proof that the Codein given by MDs makes more bad than good and there is a better alternative to that? Or is it just your personal opinion?
03/28/2013
being blackmailed with user info. talking with large distributor (hell's angels).
03/29/2013
commissioned hit on blackmailer with angels
04/01/2013
got word that blackmailer was excuted
created file upload script
Oh shut up, all of that was practically said in the novel, stop trying to needlessly point out that he wasn’t dangerous... HE RAN A DRUG EMPIRE.
Maybe you should have actually read the book, which you clearly did not.
Unfortunately this really is not a review just a statement of what Ross's mum says - I dare say that if I was similarly convicted my mum would probably say the same !
I actually thought he portrayed Ross in a really good light
Except for the billion dollar industry, it was only around 200 million
But maybe he is working that amount on bitcoin current market value 😂😂
Great book
Free Ross!!!!
If Ross wasn't involved as the mother explains in details, how come he managed to get all those millions in bitcoins? What was his business then?
There was plenty of evidence against Ross Ulbricht for all of the above. Of course his mother is going to defend him, but he is NOT an innocent little boyscout. I was almost sold on his libertarian argument for the silk road (almost) until he started putting out hits on people he perceived had "betrayed" the silk road or crossed him. That is irrefutable. Nobody framed him, no matter how much his mother wants to believe that. My heart grieves for her but her son is a criminal.
Please define criminal in his case.
From https://freeross.org/false-allegations/:
When Ross was arrested on October 1, 2013, the prosecution alleged that he planned violence, and the New York prosecutor used the allegations at Ross’s bail hearing to claim that Ross was too dangerous to be granted bail.
Yet, when Ross was indicted a few months later on February 4, 2014, the allegations were absent from the indictment.[2][3] The New York prosecution never charged Ross for violence. All the charges at trial were non-violent.
Maryland Indictment: Never Prosecuted and Dismissed with Prejudice
Absent because they never found bodies. It doesn't take away from the fact that Ross put out hits on people he thought were going to betray him. I'd say those are pretty violent acts on his part. And guess what? Under current US laws, it's illegal to sell heroin, cocaine, and other drugs, as well as many of the firearms and weapons he sold on the Silk Road. Ross broke multiple laws, not to mention paying people TO KILL human beings he perceived got in his way. The people Ross paid to kill others may not have followed through, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Ross' intention was to KILL human beings so he could continue to sell illegal drugs and weapons on the dark web.
There is no evidence that Ross paid people to kill people. You may want to read up on the case instead of believing everything that's in the book.
Isn’t it bad enough that he created the Silk Road?
It is *good* enough because instead of buying laced drugs from dealers in the street, people could buy less dangerous merchandise in a safe environment.
Are you really saying that his rat poison was better than the generic rat poison from the street? Listen, we get it, you care about the guy because you know him in person. But he IS a drug dealer. He IS a murder, or at least he tried to be one.
It was not about rat poison it was about having a choice of what to buy in a safe environment instead of the street where there are not rating system like on an internet-based exchange platform.
Unfortunately, I wish I had met Ross before he was jailed for life
and I am not the only one who supports him without knowing him in person. Read Reason magazone for example.
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
Ross was never indicted on murder charges.
Hey Oliver, let’s take away the fact that he did at least TRY to have people murdered and let’s just focus on the drugs, which are illegal btw and the poison, again illegal, and the guns ... again... illegal. Don’t try to romanticize it, selling any of these things either on the street or on the computer is bad, illegal, it kills people, causes collateral damage etc. Ross is a privilege, moronic idealist that believed his own bullshit. He thought he would lead a revolution but selling drugs and poison and firearms is pathetic and he got what he deserved. “Buying things in a safe environment“ get the hell outta here, man! So we should PRAISE this amazing man because he created a club where you can sell heroin? We should join the cause because he created a safe haven to buy guns? We should idolize Ross because he made it convenient to buy cocaine and poison?
I appreciate reading the words of Ross's mother. Yet, there was nothing there that was not already clear from the book. Allegations that remain unproven, murders, for example, were treated as unproven. Her comments provide a useful counterpoint, but in the end, I find that they reinforce the credibility of the Bilton's work.
Ross' mother is going to say mother things. I'm sure my mom would say good things about me no matter what I might do. Ross is where he belongs. Another naive, entitled, suburban brat who let his greed rationalize all manner of selfish bullshit.
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Anthony
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May 09, 2017 05:33PM
Do you have any suggestions for alternative reads?
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Hi Anthony, https://freeross.org/
has articles, documents about the case and Ross himself.
It has a link to a decent film documentary which I saw also explaining the concepts involved with the Silk Road web site such as deep web and bitcoin.
Thanks
reason.com / reason.org have organized free screenings of `Deep Web' and published articles as well.
Perhaps we read a different book. All that you say above is correct. The young man was not violent, sounded brilliant, likeable and a "good" person. I got that from the book. What I also got is that he was a drug dealer. He also sold any and all illegal items that any person (violent or not)wanted to sell. (body parts, guns, etc). I cry for him that he let his misguided libertarian views lead him to this occupation. I suspect there is no way to even tell all the sad things that happened because of the free flow of products made available by this young man. I wander what he could have done with his intelligence if he had chosen a different path.
The point of the review was to debunk the assertions you list above. https://freeross.org/ will inform you more on the case and the merits of Ross's work.Thanks.
Are you saying the young man did not create silk Road, did not have any connections to silk road?
No, but if you read the material on https://freeross.org you will see for example that silk road was a good thing from the viewpoint of drug ill-effects mitigation.Thanks
I did review the website. That's where we have to disagree, my friend. Having seen firsthand the horror of heroin usage – no one involved in the distribution of anything so insidious can call themselves innocent. He's bad judgment caused much sorrow, even death. I cry for him as I do those who purchased his poison.
I have seen firsthand the lesser horror of Cannabis usage and it is bad enough for me so I am with you on that. Ross did not cause sorrow or death and did not sell anything--let alone poison. Whoever wants to purchase drugs will do it one way or another. The War On Drugs will always fail and is a cure worse than the disease. Silk Road provided a safer way for the addicted person to do it instead of getting assaulted by a dealer or getting a tainted product or getting incarcerated.
Sorry - we are supposed to be a nation of laws. If you don't agree with them do something about it to change them. A society can't just follow the rules they believe in and break the ones they don't like. There are consequences to your actions. The real crime is he choose the wrong path in life. With all he had going for him, he chose to sell illegal mushrooms instead of doing something worthwhile. He knew what he was doing and continued to let it escalate. No one knows how many people were harmed by the drugs he helped distribute.
I can't speak to whether the server was obtained illegally and it seemed there were government agents that also got into the drug business also. That is a separate issue. The fact remains: Ross knowing broke the law and now must face consequences. Whether you agree with the length of the sentence, is really a mute point.
Ross did not sell illegal mushrooms.If some did buy from the Silk Road site, it was because it was safer.
The length of the sentence is not a mute (or even moot) point--there is always jury nullification in our nation of laws.
Anyway, my review was not about judging Ross but to point out the inaccuracies of the book.
People don't necessarily read a book cover to cover when it is excruciatingly packed with nonsense. Otherwise, you would get no 1-star negative review.
Some magazine articles written about the book with an interview of the author:http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
I read the book, Oliver clearly didn't and his review is pointless. Oliver writes "Bilton portrays Ross as having arranged murder-for-hire, yet this was never proven and Ross was not charged with this at trial": the book says that; "Ross is not a computer programmer or coder and never was": the book says that. But Ross did indeed broke the law and facilitated the selling of drugs, arms, and even body parts. Body parts, for god sake. He profited exploiting the weakness and desperation of other people. As Sandi said, there are consequences to your actions.
There are dozens of Ross fanboys out there, you'll never win an argument with them. Bilton's work was incredibly researched and he is a highly respected journalist. There was no personal vendetta here. Sadly, the truth hurts.
Ashley wrote: "There are dozens of Ross fanboys out there, you'll never win an argument with them. Bilton's work was incredibly researched and he is a highly respected journalist. There was no personal vendetta h..."you're so right!
The whole Ross didn't hurt anyone argument is silly. He believed he was actually ordering the deaths of people, and he thought it was the right thing to do. Yes, no one died, but that doesn't suddenly make him a good person.
Ross' biggest crime was that he was naive. he didn't realize what he was going up against. and the government is too stupid to realize they just created a new opportunity for someone or multiple people to come in and do the same thing. will these people be as harmless as ross? they can't be or they will share the same fate. the next person(s) to do this will be forced to be violent because of the government.people in this thread actually believe that it's wrong for him to create a marketplace to allow people to buy and sell whatever they want but when those things turn out to be things they disagree with, they suddenly want freedoms stripped away. i wonder how many of these same people are mad at doctors prescribing codeine (heroin) like it's a fashion trend right now. it's ok for an MD to give you heroin but not ok when someone goes around the government to give you heroin?
Hi Sean,Yes, I am saddened Ross was naive like that whereas he must have seen what Snowden and Assange went through. Chuck Shumer who appointed the judge to go after him saw the threat of the parallel tax-free market place more and used drug war as a pretext.
Other platforms have sprung up and there is no reason why they would create violence because their purpose is to go around street-based illegal market places.
Nice pointing out the moral hazard created by insurance-reimbursed painkillers suddenly available to 20 million more people.
Thanks
i would just like some intellectual consistency from these people for once. it's like they all become like winston smith in 1984 simultaneously believing that 2 + 2 = 4 and 5but what can you expect from a generation like sandi's? one decade they are at woodstock promoting free love and doing all kinds of drugs and other degeneracy. ten years later these same people are voting for reagan.
What nonfiction writer or book would you recommend?
Ross obviously did attempt to have those ppl killed. That was his personal downfall imo. By doing that, he strayed from his own moral principles, made it easy to convict and label him as a "dangerous criminal", and lost the support and sympathy of those who believed in Silk Road. I personally wud love to see Ross get out one day. I imagine he'll be able to buy some favors wth his bitcoin stash, and I hope he does. But let's call a spade a spade. He gambled big and got busted. And created a fascinating story.
Hello Sean,It's most interesting that you know and understand an entire generation so well. Having been mentioned by name in your post, I will respond. I'm not responding for my entire generation, however, because that would be a very stupid, narrow-minded, and biased thing to do. I am responding based on my life only. While I know Woodstock happened I certainly wasn't there. I was too busy working to put myself through college. I am not a drug user nor have I EVER been a drug user. The values and morals I have today are the same ones I had as a student, a wife, a mother, a CPA, and now a senior citizen. Yes, I am conservative in all aspects of my life.
My children are a part of your generation. Based on their character, beliefs, etc, I would observe that you have little in common with them.
"I'm not going to respond for my entire generation cause that would be stupid. Also, I'm going to generalize you based off 4 sentences I read about you."
ABALT
all boomers are like that
also, if your children don't share my beliefs and character you failed as a mother
WTF is going on with this apologist/denial crap? this is supposed to be a review of the book
Unfortunately Drew, like 90 percent of internet talk, they've digressed. Hopefully, they'll stick to book reviews in the future. Reading is completely subjective. If you make the wrong comment, or they do not like your review, they let you know.
This book was hard to review without your personal values being revealed. Sean chose to attack me by name for them. I got a notification that you posted to Sean. Being personally degraded for a book which I gave a favorable review is really out of line. I used to enjoy Goodreads but I do not appreciate the name-calling and character bashing I experienced here. I’m sure there are other book clubs I can join. I don’t need this. If Sean didn’t like my damn review he should’ve just moved on.
sandi, you made moronic points and you haven't even read the book. you just took whatever mainstream media news outlet you watch, grafted those opinions as your own, and are now upset that you are being called out. also, you told me that i have poor character and beliefs which is much more of an egregious attack then anything i said about you. the difference is im not sitting here crying like a moron cause people aren't worshiping my every syllable. i guess if you can't take it, don't dish it out. sticks and stones, boomer
Obviously you have some unnamed personal agenda here. Are you a friend of the accused or of someone related to him? Your staunch and subjective defense of him makes me question your one-star review. I realize that reviews are always subjective, but as I said before, this seems to be personal for you. It would be nice if you would acknowledge as much.
Hi Sean, do you have any scientific proof that the Codein given by MDs makes more bad than good and there is a better alternative to that? Or is it just your personal opinion?
03/28/2013being blackmailed with user info. talking with large distributor (hell's angels).
03/29/2013
commissioned hit on blackmailer with angels
04/01/2013
got word that blackmailer was excuted
created file upload script
Oh shut up, all of that was practically said in the novel, stop trying to needlessly point out that he wasn’t dangerous... HE RAN A DRUG EMPIRE.
Maybe you should have actually read the book, which you clearly did not.
Unfortunately this really is not a review just a statement of what Ross's mum says - I dare say that if I was similarly convicted my mum would probably say the same !
I actually thought he portrayed Ross in a really good light Except for the billion dollar industry, it was only around 200 million
But maybe he is working that amount on bitcoin current market value 😂😂
Great book
Free Ross!!!!
If Ross wasn't involved as the mother explains in details, how come he managed to get all those millions in bitcoins? What was his business then?
There was plenty of evidence against Ross Ulbricht for all of the above. Of course his mother is going to defend him, but he is NOT an innocent little boyscout. I was almost sold on his libertarian argument for the silk road (almost) until he started putting out hits on people he perceived had "betrayed" the silk road or crossed him. That is irrefutable. Nobody framed him, no matter how much his mother wants to believe that. My heart grieves for her but her son is a criminal.
Please define criminal in his case.From https://freeross.org/false-allegations/:
When Ross was arrested on October 1, 2013, the prosecution alleged that he planned violence, and the New York prosecutor used the allegations at Ross’s bail hearing to claim that Ross was too dangerous to be granted bail.
Yet, when Ross was indicted a few months later on February 4, 2014, the allegations were absent from the indictment.[2][3] The New York prosecution never charged Ross for violence. All the charges at trial were non-violent.
Maryland Indictment: Never Prosecuted and Dismissed with Prejudice
Absent because they never found bodies. It doesn't take away from the fact that Ross put out hits on people he thought were going to betray him. I'd say those are pretty violent acts on his part. And guess what? Under current US laws, it's illegal to sell heroin, cocaine, and other drugs, as well as many of the firearms and weapons he sold on the Silk Road. Ross broke multiple laws, not to mention paying people TO KILL human beings he perceived got in his way. The people Ross paid to kill others may not have followed through, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Ross' intention was to KILL human beings so he could continue to sell illegal drugs and weapons on the dark web.
There is no evidence that Ross paid people to kill people. You may want to read up on the case instead of believing everything that's in the book.
Isn’t it bad enough that he created the Silk Road?
It is *good* enough because instead of buying laced drugs from dealers in the street, people could buy less dangerous merchandise in a safe environment.
Are you really saying that his rat poison was better than the generic rat poison from the street? Listen, we get it, you care about the guy because you know him in person. But he IS a drug dealer. He IS a murder, or at least he tried to be one.
It was not about rat poison it was about having a choice of what to buy in a safe environment instead of the street where there are not rating system like on an internet-based exchange platform.Unfortunately, I wish I had met Ross before he was jailed for life
and I am not the only one who supports him without knowing him in person. Read Reason magazone for example.
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/30...
Ross was never indicted on murder charges.
Hey Oliver, let’s take away the fact that he did at least TRY to have people murdered and let’s just focus on the drugs, which are illegal btw and the poison, again illegal, and the guns ... again... illegal. Don’t try to romanticize it, selling any of these things either on the street or on the computer is bad, illegal, it kills people, causes collateral damage etc. Ross is a privilege, moronic idealist that believed his own bullshit. He thought he would lead a revolution but selling drugs and poison and firearms is pathetic and he got what he deserved. “Buying things in a safe environment“ get the hell outta here, man! So we should PRAISE this amazing man because he created a club where you can sell heroin? We should join the cause because he created a safe haven to buy guns? We should idolize Ross because he made it convenient to buy cocaine and poison?
I appreciate reading the words of Ross's mother. Yet, there was nothing there that was not already clear from the book. Allegations that remain unproven, murders, for example, were treated as unproven. Her comments provide a useful counterpoint, but in the end, I find that they reinforce the credibility of the Bilton's work.
Ross' mother is going to say mother things. I'm sure my mom would say good things about me no matter what I might do. Ross is where he belongs. Another naive, entitled, suburban brat who let his greed rationalize all manner of selfish bullshit.
