Patrick’s review of The Big Sleep (Philip Marlowe, #1) > Likes and Comments
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Ok, Patrick...now you need to see the movie....... I have to tell you that I liked this book very much,but the better novel, the better story..... is THE MALTESE FALCON. That's another movie you can't miss, but hit that book first.....Let me know what you think about your 2nd Chandler book.
Oh I've been meaning to read this one! (I'm in a classic mystery kick.) Thanks for the review!
What did it matter where you lay once you were dead? In a dirty sump or in a marble tower on top of a high hill? You were dead, you were sleeping the Big Sleep.
Just to clarify, because Gary's comment can be misconstrued: The Maltese Falcon is by Dashiell Hammett. I personally prefer Chandler, but The Maltese Falcon is great and probably even more ground-breaking.
Well, shit...I knew that!
Massive brain fart.....
I've done a couple, and I enjoy his straight up style, and his pacing. He also has fascinating plots.
Marlowe constantly laments how corrupt society and the government are, and I'd always thought of that as a relatively modern sensibility.
As I recall, that is in fact one of the central tenets of noir--the lone battered warrior, not necessarily good, but not corrupted--standing against an evil world.
Gods yes, noir is steeped, nay, drowned in "corruption rules everything."
The concept of societal and ruling corruption is hardly new. It's a prominent theme in the Torah and much of the rest of the Bible, without even mentioning the fact that the Constitution was written with checks and balances in mind under the assumption that those elected or appointed to leadership would be corrupt in one measure or another. (The checks and balances may not still be working, but they wouldn't have been incorporated into the Constitution if it were assumed that whomever might be elected were as pure as the driven snow.)
Gotta love Raymond Chandler. My favorite is the Thin Man.
Ouch. Teach me to remember wrong. D'oh!
Pat - I have also been really into detective urban fantasy lately. It's a genre I had never read until recently. What are your top 3 books of the genre? So far I have loved every book you have recommended on here. Thanks man, take care!
I found that the way I expected things to be (sexist, racist, homophobic) were so overt in the book, it felt like I was reading a badly-written period-piece.
“Chandler wrote like a slumming angel and invested the sun-blinded streets of Los Angeles with a romantic presence.” Ross Macdonald. R Mac is the litmus test for the genre. If you get suckered in by one of his awesome books, there's no escape. Might add fresh perspective to Chandler.
"Marlowe constantly laments how corrupt society and the government are, and I'd always thought of that as a relatively modern sensibility."
I always hear his tone as a gritty growl in my head. And I think one of the main reasons we all love him as a character is that we have a sense of his ongoing commentary. His internal monologue is like driving around with a bitter friend. :)
For my taste, the true master of noir fiction is James M. Cain.
Why don't you write your book instead?
Glad to see one of your reviews, even if you’re just updating it. I’ve chose to read many books based off your Goodreads reviews, and some of them are now my favorites. I miss seeing what you’re reading!
Personally, I absolutely hated this book just because of the rampant homophobia, sexism, and racism. Particularly, I was put off my his description of "the stealthy nastiness of fag parties," a line that has stuck with me as a queer man. All of that said, this review has given me a new perspective on the novel, and I really appreciate your update/revision. It's always fun to see what one of my favorite authors is reading!
So glad to see you're back on Goodreads! Hope all is well.
If that's all you had to say about a seminal book, that's a terrible review. I get that you might be prefacing your old/reworked review, but that is exactly the problem with making everything about the isms. You won't get anything else out of it.
We can accept that we have morally moved on as a culture without having to belabour the point over every single artwork pre-2010. To do otherwise leads only to madness.
Note that this not a comment on your moral opinions.
Its been years waiting for the third book of the trilogy... nothing, just that, thanks
I think of it like travel writing; it is just a journey across time instead of across oceans.
How about writing your damn book instead of this dude?
Don't listen to the trolls Patrick. You don't owe anybody anything. I will joyfully read any book you write, if and when you're ready for me to read it. Hope you're doing well through these trying times. Cheers, my friend.
@Pete These aren't trolls. If we keep asking him it's because the community was really caring about his books. I used the past because personally even if he released his last books in 20 years, I'm not going to read it because of the way he acted. When you became a public person and that a lot of people expect things from you, the very least you can do is try to handle people's expectations in a sane way which means 1. not bashing your community, and 2. keep communicating about it.
I used to be interested in your work but you can't ride an unfinished trilogy forever.
I read the first book of the trilogy and decided not to begin the second until/unless the third was released. I read his editor claimed that after 10 years he hadn't submitted so much as a rough draft. Is this true? 10 years and nothing?
Hey man, when's the next freaking book coming out? Get on it...
I read this at first as if the commentators were asking Raymond Chandler for the next in the series.
Since I spent a lot of time with my grandparents (born 1919) I know that those women were never slapped to their senses on a daily basis. It was not something that happened in europe. The men who did it openly lost a lot of respect in their community. They got banned from social events. Their family in general. It even reflected badly on their brothers and cousins. So it was rarely done. Its a book and people wanted a book more to be like a newspaper. A bit over the top and exiting. And we are talking about a time between the first and second war. People were more on the edge then than lets say 1850. (Well im talking from a german perspective. In other cultures it might have been different. But you talked about a specific time and not a region. The emancipation of woman england was and france also one of the reasons that lead to the first world war.)
I'm sure glad that you spent the vast majority of this review reassuring me of your righteous pearl-clutching over hints of not-current-year culture in a book written in 1939 instead of saying anything substantive about the story or writing itself.
Chandler was a master writer. A professional writer who (literally) wrote only seven complete novels (plus some short stories) his work is evocative, iconic, incredible.
That said ... The Big Sleep is easily one of his most confusing.
Bonus points: The Big Lebowski was based, in part, on The Big Sleep.
That's a brilliant and thoughtful review, and given the quality of the book, a very kind one too.
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Gary
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Jan 26, 2013 02:43PM
Ok, Patrick...now you need to see the movie....... I have to tell you that I liked this book very much,but the better novel, the better story..... is THE MALTESE FALCON. That's another movie you can't miss, but hit that book first.....Let me know what you think about your 2nd Chandler book.
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Oh I've been meaning to read this one! (I'm in a classic mystery kick.) Thanks for the review!
What did it matter where you lay once you were dead? In a dirty sump or in a marble tower on top of a high hill? You were dead, you were sleeping the Big Sleep.
Just to clarify, because Gary's comment can be misconstrued: The Maltese Falcon is by Dashiell Hammett. I personally prefer Chandler, but The Maltese Falcon is great and probably even more ground-breaking.
Well, shit...I knew that!Massive brain fart.....
I've done a couple, and I enjoy his straight up style, and his pacing. He also has fascinating plots.
Marlowe constantly laments how corrupt society and the government are, and I'd always thought of that as a relatively modern sensibility.As I recall, that is in fact one of the central tenets of noir--the lone battered warrior, not necessarily good, but not corrupted--standing against an evil world.
Gods yes, noir is steeped, nay, drowned in "corruption rules everything."
The concept of societal and ruling corruption is hardly new. It's a prominent theme in the Torah and much of the rest of the Bible, without even mentioning the fact that the Constitution was written with checks and balances in mind under the assumption that those elected or appointed to leadership would be corrupt in one measure or another. (The checks and balances may not still be working, but they wouldn't have been incorporated into the Constitution if it were assumed that whomever might be elected were as pure as the driven snow.)
Gotta love Raymond Chandler. My favorite is the Thin Man.
Ouch. Teach me to remember wrong. D'oh!
Pat - I have also been really into detective urban fantasy lately. It's a genre I had never read until recently. What are your top 3 books of the genre? So far I have loved every book you have recommended on here. Thanks man, take care!
I found that the way I expected things to be (sexist, racist, homophobic) were so overt in the book, it felt like I was reading a badly-written period-piece.
“Chandler wrote like a slumming angel and invested the sun-blinded streets of Los Angeles with a romantic presence.” Ross Macdonald. R Mac is the litmus test for the genre. If you get suckered in by one of his awesome books, there's no escape. Might add fresh perspective to Chandler.
"Marlowe constantly laments how corrupt society and the government are, and I'd always thought of that as a relatively modern sensibility."I always hear his tone as a gritty growl in my head. And I think one of the main reasons we all love him as a character is that we have a sense of his ongoing commentary. His internal monologue is like driving around with a bitter friend. :)
For my taste, the true master of noir fiction is James M. Cain.
What urban fantasy have you been reading lately?
Why don't you write your book instead?
Glad to see one of your reviews, even if you’re just updating it. I’ve chose to read many books based off your Goodreads reviews, and some of them are now my favorites. I miss seeing what you’re reading!
Personally, I absolutely hated this book just because of the rampant homophobia, sexism, and racism. Particularly, I was put off my his description of "the stealthy nastiness of fag parties," a line that has stuck with me as a queer man. All of that said, this review has given me a new perspective on the novel, and I really appreciate your update/revision. It's always fun to see what one of my favorite authors is reading!
So glad to see you're back on Goodreads! Hope all is well.
If that's all you had to say about a seminal book, that's a terrible review. I get that you might be prefacing your old/reworked review, but that is exactly the problem with making everything about the isms. You won't get anything else out of it. We can accept that we have morally moved on as a culture without having to belabour the point over every single artwork pre-2010. To do otherwise leads only to madness.
Note that this not a comment on your moral opinions.
Its been years waiting for the third book of the trilogy... nothing, just that, thanks
I think of it like travel writing; it is just a journey across time instead of across oceans.
How about writing your damn book instead of this dude?
Don't listen to the trolls Patrick. You don't owe anybody anything. I will joyfully read any book you write, if and when you're ready for me to read it. Hope you're doing well through these trying times. Cheers, my friend.
@Pete These aren't trolls. If we keep asking him it's because the community was really caring about his books. I used the past because personally even if he released his last books in 20 years, I'm not going to read it because of the way he acted. When you became a public person and that a lot of people expect things from you, the very least you can do is try to handle people's expectations in a sane way which means 1. not bashing your community, and 2. keep communicating about it.
I used to be interested in your work but you can't ride an unfinished trilogy forever.
I read the first book of the trilogy and decided not to begin the second until/unless the third was released. I read his editor claimed that after 10 years he hadn't submitted so much as a rough draft. Is this true? 10 years and nothing?
Hey man, when's the next freaking book coming out? Get on it...
I read this at first as if the commentators were asking Raymond Chandler for the next in the series.
Since I spent a lot of time with my grandparents (born 1919) I know that those women were never slapped to their senses on a daily basis. It was not something that happened in europe. The men who did it openly lost a lot of respect in their community. They got banned from social events. Their family in general. It even reflected badly on their brothers and cousins. So it was rarely done. Its a book and people wanted a book more to be like a newspaper. A bit over the top and exiting. And we are talking about a time between the first and second war. People were more on the edge then than lets say 1850. (Well im talking from a german perspective. In other cultures it might have been different. But you talked about a specific time and not a region. The emancipation of woman england was and france also one of the reasons that lead to the first world war.)
I'm sure glad that you spent the vast majority of this review reassuring me of your righteous pearl-clutching over hints of not-current-year culture in a book written in 1939 instead of saying anything substantive about the story or writing itself.
Chandler was a master writer. A professional writer who (literally) wrote only seven complete novels (plus some short stories) his work is evocative, iconic, incredible. That said ... The Big Sleep is easily one of his most confusing.
Bonus points: The Big Lebowski was based, in part, on The Big Sleep.
That's a brilliant and thoughtful review, and given the quality of the book, a very kind one too.
