Meike’s review of Flesh > Likes and Comments
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Jonathan wrote: "“He moves, but he is never moved by anything”
Great line, Meike.
Your review captures the essence of the message, and of the writing style. I’m not wholly enamoured by this book either.
It’s unus..."
Thank you very much for your kind words, Jonathan! I think I see the intent and how stringently Szalay plays out his aesthetic program, so kudos for that, but I couldn't get behind the overall result, I felt that it was rather ennervating to read.
Very insightful review, and you are right without any change, growth, realization, epiphany even, how are we to gain something from the work...contrast and progress are great tools even if the protagonist tries and fails. Kudos to you sticking with it. Unfortunately, there are people who find more familiarity with misery...
Jsiva wrote: "Very insightful review, and you are right without any change, growth, realization, epiphany even, how are we to gain something from the work...contrast and progress are great tools even if the prot..."
Thank you very much! The quote "all happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" came to my mind reading your comment (I had to check, it's from Anna Karenina), and I think we can all learn from what people in novels suffer, it's just that this particular novel wasn't for me! :-)
I was getting miffed with "it's okay", but then I remembered that during my seven long interminable years of a phd I felt just like Istvan suspended in that terrible stillness of wet gesso turning solid. Then my heart went out to him LOL
Ouch! I think this is next for me, since the Booker quiz said I should read it first!
Frejola wrote: "I was getting miffed with "it's okay", but then I remembered that during my seven long interminable years of a phd I felt just like Istvan suspended in that terrible stillness of wet gesso turning ..."
Hahaha, Frejola, now my heart goes also out to you! :-) But it's so cool you pulled through and got that PhD!
Doug wrote: "Ouch! I think this is next for me, since the Booker quiz said I should read it first!"
Maybe you like it better than me, Doug, BUT: we all know your literary suffering usually turns into razor-sharp and ultra-witty takedowns, and I wouldn't be mad to get one of those about "Flesh"! :-)
Hehehehe - makes me wanna read it even more now! haven't done a parodic takedown review in a while! And I wasn't enamored of Szalay's LAST Booker nom!
Doug wrote: "Hehehehe - makes me wanna read it even more now! haven't done a parodic takedown review in a while! And I wasn't enamored of Szalay's LAST Booker nom!"
Oooooh - don't get me wrong, but now I REALLY hope you'll hate it! :-)
Sorry this didn’t land with you Meike. I listened to the audio and was transfixed. I felt as through we were viewing the world through the protagonist’s dissociative state. It called to mind the film Life Is Beautiful in that we know a train wreck is occurring, in this case in his mind, but we are never shown the horror. To me this created an incredible tension that had me sitting on the edge of my seat.
Great review Meike. I agree completely. I like the writing, I like the way the chapters jump randomly forward in time and you slowly pick up what has happened in the missing years. I am about 80% through it so I am not writing it off, but there is something missing. I have no feelings towards the main character. and in a book that to me is primarily about his life I need to feel a connection. However, I still have to finish it, so the ending may change things. :-)
I just finished it Meike.
Spoiler Alert!!!!!
The last chapter did indeed make it a better read for me. I like the way that the whole story circles around and he ends up in the same place as he started. And how points in life can be critical and life changing. If he would have let Thomas overdose his life would have been so much different but he would have ended up living a morally corrupt life (which he did anyway), I think he had sex with every married female in the book. Hahaha Oh well on to Audition now. I am reading them in the order they arrive in the mail. :-)
Susie wrote: "Sorry this didn’t land with you Meike. I listened to the audio and was transfixed. I felt as through we were viewing the world through the protagonist’s dissociative state. It called to mind the fi..."
I think you're so right re the dissociative state, and I totally get why some readers might find the language hypnotizing or transfixing. What created the tension for you created the frustration for me - it's so fun to see how differently readers react to the same text!
Neale wrote: "I just finished it Meike.
Spoiler Alert!!!!!
The last chapter did indeed make it a better read for me. I like the way that the whole story circles around and he ends up in the same place as he st..."
Hahaha, I think he did indeed have sex with every married female in the book! :-) I found the ending super appropriate, because it's so depressing: Here, life is not a journey, but a circle. A circle of trauma he is caught up in, and he should get out, but can't. It really made me sad.
Have fun with Audition! I'm reading what I can get via Libby and Spotify, so I'll soon run out of material, I guess.
Oh, not looking forward to this one either.
Adina wrote: "Oh, not looking forward to this one either."
This one really divides opinion, Adina, some readers are drawn in by the perplexingly detached language, as it gives everything a mysterious air - maybe you'll like it more than me!
Once again, gr8 minds think alike - your review is spot on, and I said essentially the same thing in mine (just posted!). Unfortunately, it was so enervating (good choice of word!) for me also, that it didn't even spur me on to a satirical take-down!
I had a very similar reaction, though I didn’t articulate it nearly as well. Interested to read your take Adina!
Doug wrote: "Once again, gr8 minds think alike - your review is spot on, and I said essentially the same thing in mine (just posted!). Unfortunately, it was so enervating (good choice of word!) for me also, tha..."
Thank you, Doug, it's always so much fun to discuss the list with you! I wasn't aware of the Chris Power angle you mention in your review, and I demand less power for Chris Power if his poor choices don't even inspire some hilarious take-downs!
Dara wrote: "I had a very similar reaction, though I didn’t articulate it nearly as well. Interested to read your take Adina!"
Thank you very much, Dara!
I think we react to Istvan in the same way that he reacts to the world. We are pulled along neither fully engaged nor distanced in the same way that he moves through his world.
Kris wrote: "I think we react to Istvan in the same way that he reacts to the world. We are pulled along neither fully engaged nor distanced in the same way that he moves through his world."
Valid argument, but I would disagree: Readers pick up a book and thus intentionally engage with the characters in one way or another, even if this engagement fails to grasp or come close to the character. This is the very reason why some readers (including me) get frustrated.
Meike, this novel won the Booker Prize this evening. Reading your review and also other reviews, I think I will skip reading the novel.
Hard to believe this mediocre novel that left me cold won the BOOKER PRIZE when I was flabbergasted it even made the long list.
I respect your opinions so much. While I had immediately added this one to my reading list, I’ve now removed it.
Hanneke wrote: "Meike, this novel won the Booker Prize this evening. Reading your review and also other reviews, I think I will skip reading the novel."
Yes, and I will have to explain this on the radio morning show - good luck to me! :-)
Dara wrote: "Revisiting this review tonight, blargh."
Blargh indeed!
Kats wrote: "Hard to believe this mediocre novel that left me cold won the BOOKER PRIZE when I was flabbergasted it even made the long list."
Exactly, Kats!
Ivan wrote: "I respect your opinions so much. While I had immediately added this one to my reading list, I’ve now removed it."
Thank you so much, Ivan, but maybe you'd like it more than I did? The Booker judges certainly did! :-)
This book ended up winning the Pulitzer. With so many options to read, I really appreciate your comment because unconscious masculinity is something I know well, and I want to read about other topics instead.
Akibsi wrote: "This book ended up winning the Pulitzer. With so many options to read, I really appreciate your comment because unconscious masculinity is something I know well, and I want to read about other topi..."
James won the Pulitzer, this one won the Booker last night. (And James is really good!)
@kats so many popular, award winning novels do t nothing for me. Not even Meryl strep narrating Tom Lake could get me into it.
Harlow wrote: "Googling “non-immersive”"
You live and you learn, Harlow!
I appreciate the way you put down the questions posed by this novel, in relation to the possibilities of literature. You seem to have experienced a strange moment reading it when, if the execution proved beyond reproach, the end result was still lackluster, because of the scarcity, the sheer bankruptcy of communication and connexion. An interesting occurence, something like a well-performed stylistic exercise, yet vexing and not truly satisfying in the end. Thanks for the review, Meike.
100% agree. Makes me wonder who the book is for - to me it was mostly a hurtful read.
P.E. wrote: "I appreciate the way you put down the questions posed by this novel, in relation to the possibilities of literature. You seem to have experienced a strange moment reading it when, if the execution ..."
Thank you very much for your comment, P.E. - "a well-performed stylistic exercise, yet vexing and not truly satisfying in the end", that's it exactly!
Emi wrote: "100% agree. Makes me wonder who the book is for - to me it was mostly a hurtful read."
Thank you, Emi! I think the novel does what it aims to do, we just didn't like it very much! :-)
I just finished and I am struggling to connect that his void as a person is partially due to unprocessed trauma when the prose and narrative style feels the same before and after the grooming and rape. I probably missed something I am sure.
BookishlySonia wrote: "I just finished and I am struggling to connect that his void as a person is partially due to unprocessed trauma when the prose and narrative style feels the same before and after the grooming and r..."
István is not the narrator, Sonia. The narrator implies all emotion connected to the traumatic events like rape, war, prison - which is Szalay's aesthetic concept, pointing to, I'd say, toxic concepts of what a man should be. I didn't particularly like how it turned out as a final product either.
You have articulated what I have been thinking while reading this book. Thank you. I've read one-third of the book and now I am going to stop!
Beverly wrote: "You have articulated what I have been thinking while reading this book. Thank you. I've read one-third of the book and now I am going to stop!"
Thank you, Beverly!
Wonderful review, Miele! I was quite disappointed with this novel also, but without the same penetration that you provide here. Thank you!
Jeremy wrote: "Wonderful review, Miele! I was quite disappointed with this novel also, but without the same penetration that you provide here. Thank you!"
Thank you very much for your kind words, Jeremy! (My name is Meike though :-))
Oops! I do know your name and how to spell it. It was that damn autocorrect!
Jeremy wrote: "Oops! I do know your name and how to spell it. It was that damn autocorrect!"
No worries!! :-)
I this is constant okay and I don’t know and yeah is a beautiful way of showcasing how life just happens to István, with all the characters just sort of bloppinng into his life, altering his ways, him letting it, then when life is done with him, it puts him back where he was always meant to be. It’s such a complete full circle moment. He’s not an active participant of any of it, he’s a mere observer of reality and I think it makes sense that we rarely see his internal thought process, yet it’s undeniably suggested throughout the book
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Jonathan wrote: "“He moves, but he is never moved by anything”Great line, Meike.
Your review captures the essence of the message, and of the writing style. I’m not wholly enamoured by this book either.
It’s unus..."
Thank you very much for your kind words, Jonathan! I think I see the intent and how stringently Szalay plays out his aesthetic program, so kudos for that, but I couldn't get behind the overall result, I felt that it was rather ennervating to read.
Very insightful review, and you are right without any change, growth, realization, epiphany even, how are we to gain something from the work...contrast and progress are great tools even if the protagonist tries and fails. Kudos to you sticking with it. Unfortunately, there are people who find more familiarity with misery...
Jsiva wrote: "Very insightful review, and you are right without any change, growth, realization, epiphany even, how are we to gain something from the work...contrast and progress are great tools even if the prot..."Thank you very much! The quote "all happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" came to my mind reading your comment (I had to check, it's from Anna Karenina), and I think we can all learn from what people in novels suffer, it's just that this particular novel wasn't for me! :-)
I was getting miffed with "it's okay", but then I remembered that during my seven long interminable years of a phd I felt just like Istvan suspended in that terrible stillness of wet gesso turning solid. Then my heart went out to him LOL
Ouch! I think this is next for me, since the Booker quiz said I should read it first!
Frejola wrote: "I was getting miffed with "it's okay", but then I remembered that during my seven long interminable years of a phd I felt just like Istvan suspended in that terrible stillness of wet gesso turning ..."Hahaha, Frejola, now my heart goes also out to you! :-) But it's so cool you pulled through and got that PhD!
Doug wrote: "Ouch! I think this is next for me, since the Booker quiz said I should read it first!"Maybe you like it better than me, Doug, BUT: we all know your literary suffering usually turns into razor-sharp and ultra-witty takedowns, and I wouldn't be mad to get one of those about "Flesh"! :-)
Hehehehe - makes me wanna read it even more now! haven't done a parodic takedown review in a while! And I wasn't enamored of Szalay's LAST Booker nom!
Doug wrote: "Hehehehe - makes me wanna read it even more now! haven't done a parodic takedown review in a while! And I wasn't enamored of Szalay's LAST Booker nom!"Oooooh - don't get me wrong, but now I REALLY hope you'll hate it! :-)
Sorry this didn’t land with you Meike. I listened to the audio and was transfixed. I felt as through we were viewing the world through the protagonist’s dissociative state. It called to mind the film Life Is Beautiful in that we know a train wreck is occurring, in this case in his mind, but we are never shown the horror. To me this created an incredible tension that had me sitting on the edge of my seat.
Great review Meike. I agree completely. I like the writing, I like the way the chapters jump randomly forward in time and you slowly pick up what has happened in the missing years. I am about 80% through it so I am not writing it off, but there is something missing. I have no feelings towards the main character. and in a book that to me is primarily about his life I need to feel a connection. However, I still have to finish it, so the ending may change things. :-)
I just finished it Meike.Spoiler Alert!!!!!
The last chapter did indeed make it a better read for me. I like the way that the whole story circles around and he ends up in the same place as he started. And how points in life can be critical and life changing. If he would have let Thomas overdose his life would have been so much different but he would have ended up living a morally corrupt life (which he did anyway), I think he had sex with every married female in the book. Hahaha Oh well on to Audition now. I am reading them in the order they arrive in the mail. :-)
Susie wrote: "Sorry this didn’t land with you Meike. I listened to the audio and was transfixed. I felt as through we were viewing the world through the protagonist’s dissociative state. It called to mind the fi..."I think you're so right re the dissociative state, and I totally get why some readers might find the language hypnotizing or transfixing. What created the tension for you created the frustration for me - it's so fun to see how differently readers react to the same text!
Neale wrote: "I just finished it Meike.Spoiler Alert!!!!!
The last chapter did indeed make it a better read for me. I like the way that the whole story circles around and he ends up in the same place as he st..."
Hahaha, I think he did indeed have sex with every married female in the book! :-) I found the ending super appropriate, because it's so depressing: Here, life is not a journey, but a circle. A circle of trauma he is caught up in, and he should get out, but can't. It really made me sad.
Have fun with Audition! I'm reading what I can get via Libby and Spotify, so I'll soon run out of material, I guess.
Oh, not looking forward to this one either.
Adina wrote: "Oh, not looking forward to this one either."This one really divides opinion, Adina, some readers are drawn in by the perplexingly detached language, as it gives everything a mysterious air - maybe you'll like it more than me!
Once again, gr8 minds think alike - your review is spot on, and I said essentially the same thing in mine (just posted!). Unfortunately, it was so enervating (good choice of word!) for me also, that it didn't even spur me on to a satirical take-down!
I had a very similar reaction, though I didn’t articulate it nearly as well. Interested to read your take Adina!
Doug wrote: "Once again, gr8 minds think alike - your review is spot on, and I said essentially the same thing in mine (just posted!). Unfortunately, it was so enervating (good choice of word!) for me also, tha..."Thank you, Doug, it's always so much fun to discuss the list with you! I wasn't aware of the Chris Power angle you mention in your review, and I demand less power for Chris Power if his poor choices don't even inspire some hilarious take-downs!
Dara wrote: "I had a very similar reaction, though I didn’t articulate it nearly as well. Interested to read your take Adina!"Thank you very much, Dara!
I think we react to Istvan in the same way that he reacts to the world. We are pulled along neither fully engaged nor distanced in the same way that he moves through his world.
Kris wrote: "I think we react to Istvan in the same way that he reacts to the world. We are pulled along neither fully engaged nor distanced in the same way that he moves through his world."Valid argument, but I would disagree: Readers pick up a book and thus intentionally engage with the characters in one way or another, even if this engagement fails to grasp or come close to the character. This is the very reason why some readers (including me) get frustrated.
Meike, this novel won the Booker Prize this evening. Reading your review and also other reviews, I think I will skip reading the novel.
Hard to believe this mediocre novel that left me cold won the BOOKER PRIZE when I was flabbergasted it even made the long list.
I respect your opinions so much. While I had immediately added this one to my reading list, I’ve now removed it.
Hanneke wrote: "Meike, this novel won the Booker Prize this evening. Reading your review and also other reviews, I think I will skip reading the novel."Yes, and I will have to explain this on the radio morning show - good luck to me! :-)
Dara wrote: "Revisiting this review tonight, blargh."Blargh indeed!
Kats wrote: "Hard to believe this mediocre novel that left me cold won the BOOKER PRIZE when I was flabbergasted it even made the long list."Exactly, Kats!
Ivan wrote: "I respect your opinions so much. While I had immediately added this one to my reading list, I’ve now removed it."Thank you so much, Ivan, but maybe you'd like it more than I did? The Booker judges certainly did! :-)
This book ended up winning the Pulitzer. With so many options to read, I really appreciate your comment because unconscious masculinity is something I know well, and I want to read about other topics instead.
Akibsi wrote: "This book ended up winning the Pulitzer. With so many options to read, I really appreciate your comment because unconscious masculinity is something I know well, and I want to read about other topi..."James won the Pulitzer, this one won the Booker last night. (And James is really good!)
@kats so many popular, award winning novels do t nothing for me. Not even Meryl strep narrating Tom Lake could get me into it.
Harlow wrote: "Googling “non-immersive”"You live and you learn, Harlow!
I appreciate the way you put down the questions posed by this novel, in relation to the possibilities of literature. You seem to have experienced a strange moment reading it when, if the execution proved beyond reproach, the end result was still lackluster, because of the scarcity, the sheer bankruptcy of communication and connexion. An interesting occurence, something like a well-performed stylistic exercise, yet vexing and not truly satisfying in the end. Thanks for the review, Meike.
100% agree. Makes me wonder who the book is for - to me it was mostly a hurtful read.
P.E. wrote: "I appreciate the way you put down the questions posed by this novel, in relation to the possibilities of literature. You seem to have experienced a strange moment reading it when, if the execution ..."Thank you very much for your comment, P.E. - "a well-performed stylistic exercise, yet vexing and not truly satisfying in the end", that's it exactly!
Emi wrote: "100% agree. Makes me wonder who the book is for - to me it was mostly a hurtful read."Thank you, Emi! I think the novel does what it aims to do, we just didn't like it very much! :-)
I just finished and I am struggling to connect that his void as a person is partially due to unprocessed trauma when the prose and narrative style feels the same before and after the grooming and rape. I probably missed something I am sure.
BookishlySonia wrote: "I just finished and I am struggling to connect that his void as a person is partially due to unprocessed trauma when the prose and narrative style feels the same before and after the grooming and r..."István is not the narrator, Sonia. The narrator implies all emotion connected to the traumatic events like rape, war, prison - which is Szalay's aesthetic concept, pointing to, I'd say, toxic concepts of what a man should be. I didn't particularly like how it turned out as a final product either.
You have articulated what I have been thinking while reading this book. Thank you. I've read one-third of the book and now I am going to stop!
Beverly wrote: "You have articulated what I have been thinking while reading this book. Thank you. I've read one-third of the book and now I am going to stop!"Thank you, Beverly!
Wonderful review, Miele! I was quite disappointed with this novel also, but without the same penetration that you provide here. Thank you!
Jeremy wrote: "Wonderful review, Miele! I was quite disappointed with this novel also, but without the same penetration that you provide here. Thank you!"Thank you very much for your kind words, Jeremy! (My name is Meike though :-))
Oops! I do know your name and how to spell it. It was that damn autocorrect!
Jeremy wrote: "Oops! I do know your name and how to spell it. It was that damn autocorrect!"No worries!! :-)
I this is constant okay and I don’t know and yeah is a beautiful way of showcasing how life just happens to István, with all the characters just sort of bloppinng into his life, altering his ways, him letting it, then when life is done with him, it puts him back where he was always meant to be. It’s such a complete full circle moment. He’s not an active participant of any of it, he’s a mere observer of reality and I think it makes sense that we rarely see his internal thought process, yet it’s undeniably suggested throughout the book
Great line, Meike.
Your review captures the essence of the message, and of the writing style. I’m not wholly enamoured by this book either.
It’s unusual to read such a balanced and ‘fair’ review with a (mere) two star rating.