Apocalypse...why? > Likes and Comments

A friend recently asked (non-judgmentally) why I enjoy books about the world as we know it coming to an end, and I found that to be a compelling inquiry. So my question for the group is, what is it about this genre that fascinates us?

I can't really pinpoint what makes it so interesting. I think it's just one of those scenarios that really makes you think about what you would do, how would you react under the pressure? There's stories out there about the "normal" store clerk kind of guy that becomes the hero. Wouldn't we all love to believe we could be the hero in our own apocalyptic story? So for me personally I love reading, and writing about how all kinds of people respond to the situation.

And I don't know about anybody else, but there are days when I think I would love to deal with an apocalypse rather than the everyday "problems" (bills,work,blah blah blah). I know that's not realistic...but we all have those days.

We had a similar thread to this a long time ago (and it hasn't been active in a while) so it's probably good to have a fresh thread on it. :-) But for anyone interested here is the old thread: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...

For me the main reason I read PA fiction is (I believe) because I know it is fiction (and hope it stays that way) and I can compare my circumstances to those in the book and think *whew!*. When I read a book about people struggling just to survive or get through day-to-day tasks like finding a meal, washing up, finding a semi-comfortable place to sleep, it makes me that much more grateful for the things we have now. Most nights when I go to bed I am very aware of how fortunate I am to have shelter, a warm soft bed, a full belly, and no immediate hreats to my safety. I think that is partly due to knowing not everyone in the world is so lucky, but also because of the types of books I read.

In addition to the reasons already mentioned, I fear a quick societal break-down (perhaps inevitable?) and look at some apocalypse stories as cautionary tales. It's interesting to read different authors' perspectives on who struggles to reach the "top of the heap" first and what might bring the end of the world in the first place.

I always think back to the man in "The Road" giving the boy a filthy, dented can of soda they find somewhere as an exotic treat. Dang ... I drink one of those every day!

Katy I always remember that scene too; there is a similar one in King's Dark Tower series (I don't recall which book). I even commented on it in the "things that make you think of the apocalypse" thread. Soda and everything else is that much sweeter when you remember things could be different.

I bet some folks like to read these types of stories for good self-sufficiency tips, also. I pick up all sorts of interesting tidbits, unfortunately can never remember them.

Mostly I just envy Post-Apocalyptic sense of Fashion. The ass-less leather chaps and the football shoulder pads. And whatever else you happen to loot from abandon shops or corpses.

But alas I'm required to wear business casual - which is far more tacky.

I need something to keep me awake at night. Might as well be zombie nightmares

It beats the hell out of worrying about work :)

Drew wrote: "I need something to keep me awake at night. Might as well be zombie nightmares

It beats the hell out of worrying about work :)"

That's how i feel too.

Escapism. ! I don't know why; I can't really imagine wanting to be in one of those environments. Maybe I need to liven up my life a little bit.

To prepare of course.

I have a dark side, so Apocalyptic and Dystopian Fiction is right up my alley. I don't know that I can explain it. I'll have ponder a bit...

There's also, I think, the ability in apocalyptic fiction to create some darkly intriguing imagery. It's our world, but radically altered in (hopefully) interesting ways. There's something compelling about the concept of a character moving through familiar territory that's also completely alien.

Gertie wrote: "Katy I always remember that scene too; there is a similar one in King's Dark Tower series (I don't recall which book). I even commented on it in the "things that make you think of the apocalypse" t..."

I remember that being subject in the other thread. That image in the movie was especially striking. You'd think it was the nectar of the gods. Then again, that's how I feel about Diet Coke.

It's a good trunk subject. It can branch off in many different ways depending on the reason for the apocalypse. It might become a dire warning against nuclear proliferation or ecological disaster. It can be a result of aliens or some horror. It might serve as a vehicle to discuss survival techniques. It's a very generic way to begin a story; as much so as boy meets girl.

I may be coming at this from a different angle. I favour dystopian fiction over the apocalyptic, and the reason why I love reading and writing it is because I believe one of these societies will indeed come true. The logical battle to arrive at the likeliest one is what fascinates me.

Escapism this is not.

Survival - it will happen - better to be prepared.

Along time ago people had a idea of the future that was positive and bright. Aren't we all supposed to have flying cars now? This is no longer the case (I feel) and I think perhaps the consensus is society will collapse rather than cure cancer. Maybe the love affair with apocalyptic /dystopian literature feeds our inclination and cynicism about how we feel things are gonna turn out. Plus it is kick-ass escapism and fun...still waiting on my flying car though.

Phil wrote: "Along time ago people had a idea of the future that was positive and bright."

This is why the world needs 'Star Trek' :)

I ask myself this question a lot. One of the things that keeps popping up in my mind that in many apocalpytic tales these stories are not foreign or fiction for many people on our planet. Why do I prefer to read fiction about it happening in my country rather than reading about the reality of it happening in other countries?

Horror or end of the world fiction and films seem to have booms during depression, recession and times of war. The original horror boom was during the 30’s with the university monster saga (Dracula, Frankenstein, The Mummy) etc. The next boom came during the 60’s during the Cuban missile crisis. This is when you had your radioactive animal/bug films, writers such as Matheson, Bloch, Levin, etc..

The boom in the early 70’s was due to Vietnam and the energy crisis. This then fed into the recession with films such as Texas Chainsaw, I Spit on Your Grave, Eaten Alive, etc. Writers such as Stephen King started his career during this time.

The 80’s was the sequel years and horror was kind of dead or poked fun at. Writer wise though Richard Laymon, Clive Barker became more prominent.

Currently, we are experiencing a new boom which seems to be the recession again, problems in the Middle East and Iraq, etc. This has lead people to think that the end is nigh and the idea of the world ending in an apocalyptic setting is current very much in vogue. You do have the end of the Mayan calendar as well which is supposed to be the end of the world. Armageddon, the breaking of the seals and various other ideals seem to become more of a reality for some.

I guess reading about it, gives you something a bit more tangible to read about and it makes it easy for you to relate to the story. Personally, they seem more science fiction than horror because unlike vampires, werewolves, etc., it seems like that maybe one day it will happen in our life time. It feels more tangible.

Ben wrote: "Phil wrote: "Along time ago people had a idea of the future that was positive and bright."

This is why the world needs 'Star Trek' :)"

Agreed...

I sorta think one thing we may be hunting for in apocalyptic literature is hope amongst pessimism. I wonder sometimes how much these end of the world scenarios reflect our own dour doubts about everyday life, and the characters who rise to the occasion and find a way forward through the desolation are our vehicles for hope.

D. wrote: "I sorta think one thing we may be hunting for in apocalyptic literature is hope amongst pessimism. I wonder sometimes how much these end of the world scenarios reflect our own dour doubts about eve..."

Ooh, I like that...

Apocalypses bring out the best and the worst in people. It's the end, something that is nearly universally feared by individuals and as a whole species. We also see a lot of what we hope to be in the characters- bravery, cunningness, skill, heroism- as well as what we often fear becoming- evil, weak, thoughtless, dead.

In apocalypse situations, we also see the speckles of hope when all is lost, and the belief that no matter how bad things get, life goes on and there's always the possibility that things will get better. It challenges us to think about what we would do in the worst case scenario, and to reflect on how adaptive we can be in finding a "new normal" in the crazy, terrifying new world. Just my thoughts; I have no idea whether or not it actually makes sense. :)

To me, reading and writing apocalyptic fiction is like the "touching the void" phenomenon that mountain climbers sometimes experience. They're on the precipice of falling thousands of feet to their deaths, and the anxiety becomes so much that they just embrace the feeling and jump. Often our world feels on the precipice of collapse; apocalyptic fiction simply takes that next step into the void and imagines what the collapse will look and feel like.

I am just tired of being a wage slave. The idea of something as primal of fending for oneselves without government and law is an appealing idea. At least in the imagination. not so sure the reality would be that great.

Yes, I agree with so many of you. I enjoy reading/writing in the paranormal/apocalyptic genre because it's cool to imagine and escape to a world that doesn't exist. I like to imagine the "what-ifs" like what if there was no more technology. No Kindle? Tragedy! Anyway, there's my 2 cents.

I mostly love people's take on what happens to our "humanity" when everyone is scared and there are no rules left but survive. I think in less than a day I'd be assaulted or killed. Why behave if there's no reason to? No consequences? This scares me more than seven hordes of zombies.

Jennifer wrote: "I mostly love people's take on what happens to our "humanity" when everyone is scared and there are no rules left but survive. I think in less than a day I'd be assaulted or killed. Why behave if t..."

Yes, Jennifer! I think fear and desparation motivates people to do crazy, immoral things. The book and movie The Road scared the crap out of me. THAT is true horror. My characters actually contemplate this idea of fear and chaos in my book. But I agree; no laws or law-enforcers scares me the most.

I haven't read many books in years until this summer. Stressed with the current "status" of our society and the issues at hand, I read "Hunger Games" on my vacation. Now I am completely consumed with Post-Apocolyptic/Distopian type literature. I cannot get enough of it. I don't understand why these books are categorized YA. They are great reads. I think why for me is a combination of what Katy and Mikhail put. Fear of the potential realism that it could happen in my lifetime and an escape of the everyday routines and responsibilities.

I'm really enjoying this thread; it's giving me a lot of things to think about, and that's always a pleasure. Like many, I get fed up with day-to-day tedium and wonder what it would be like if things went sideways. Would I be a survivor or a victim? Would I even want to survive? It's interesting to consider, and I'd agree that troubled times have given me a less than optimistic feeling about the future. If we ever get to a Star Trek type of society, we may have to go through some dark times first.

Brad T. wrote: "I am just tired of being a wage slave. The idea of something as primal of fending for oneselves without government and law is an appealing idea. At least in the imagination. not so sure the reali..."

I've had that same thought once or twice. No bills, no cubicle, life is simple. Then I realize I'm a woman who can't farm so life would be short and painful. Plus there's be no French fries or air conditioning. Cubicle's not so bad compared to that.

I'm really enjoying everyones opinions on this topic. As I already said, I feel very similar to Brad and Jennifer at times. I was talking to a friend about this recently, and I had to laugh Jennifer when I read what you put about not being a farmer. As my friend and I were talking, I realized I've been setting my self up for the perfect set of skills to help me survive, without realizing it. I'm in the army, so I know my way around enough weapons, I am also a truck driver for the army. And in the last couple of years I also added combat medic to my list of qualifications. I worked as an EMT for a while, I'm definitely not a doctor, but I have basic life saving skills. And now most recently, I started working a job involving farming at a co-op. I thought maybe my life was just all over the place...but now I realize I've just been gearing up for survival mode! haha. When I talked to my wife about this she kinda realized her skills as a massage therapist and artist were'nt going to help her very much. At least she's got me!

Mikhail wrote: "I'm really enjoying everyones opinions on this topic. As I already said, I feel very similar to Brad and Jennifer at times. I was talking to a friend about this recently, and I had to laugh Jennife..."

Ha, ha, ha! Good point, Mikhail. Ummm, I'm a teacher, writer, and mother. Im afriad teachers and writers would be sort of useless or at least low in priorities in survival mode. The only thing that would help me is the mothering role, I suppose, to console people and "get things done" as I'm a bit of a leader. Other than that, I can say like your wife "at least I've got my husband." Having been in the National Guard and law enforcement for 15 years, I'd feel pretty safe. :)

Stephanie wrote: "Mikhail wrote: "I'm really enjoying everyones opinions on this topic. As I already said, I feel very similar to Brad and Jennifer at times. I was talking to a friend about this recently, and I had ..."
In my view, teachers will be critical in the aftermath of the apocalypse, for they have the ability to quickly learn survival skills from those who have them and convey that information to those who don't.

Stan have you read Earth Abides? I was particularly struck in that book by how much they were creating problems for themselves by not teaching kids adequately.

I did read Earth Abides centuries... well decades ago, but considering that I can barely remember what I ate for breakfast, I have no memory of what it was about except that it was PA. That's the only good thing about memory loss in old age; you can reread all the good books and they'll be fresh.

Lol, it is funny you say that since the main character Ish gets very old, and they have to pinch his ear to get him to pay attention and remember things.

I'm sure it's been said, but I think the main thing that makes post-apocalyptic stories fascinating is that when everything everyone knows is turned upside down, and everyone has to fight for survival, everyone becomes special. Every seemingly insignificant character of the world before now has a chance to be something heroic, or demonic, or whatever - there's no more ordinary in the apocalypse. By virtue of existing in a post-apocalypse, the characters are extraordinary and immediately interesting.

Steelwhisper wrote: "Escapism this is not."

The more we read and write about PA, the more the idea becomes real. I think this literature touches a societal Archetype, a particular future we create as we imagine it.

People read and write about what they are afraid of (or hope for). Zombies are a side branch of our main fear of the world ending. Atomic war has mostly disappeared as the primary evil; instead we have a plethora of fears like EMP, the Rapture, 12/21/2012, killer viruses, overpopulation and Earth rapes by monster corporations. Scary and powerful aliens used to be common, but we seem to have conquered them (except for the tales of UFO abduction which if believed engender only fear). I even watched that video which warns of the next super financial meltdown. Survivalism is a growing movement.

I don't quite know where to take this, but think it's interesting that a broad range of TEOTWAWKI is our bugaboo rather than the more specific fears of the past. Is there a collective guilt and payback in these imaginings because we acknowledge our (Western) lifestyles contribute to the harm? Is Apocalysm a bigger percentage of our thoughts than in previous eras? (I only know about the Essenes; haven't studied it.) Is a cataclysm preferable to think about than slow decline?

I think Post Apocalyptic stories proliferate for reasons that Phil said in his post. But I think there's more to this genre than most of the reasons we've talked about in this thread.

Loved reading all these answers. I'm actually kinda nervous to put my reasons for liking PA stories, but here goes... I myself see them as a sort of fantasy setting. I have always felt like I've been living in the wrong century. Too many rules, too much technology and way too many people. I've seen others say that they don't think they'd make it in a post apocalyptic situation but I think if you survived past the shock of it and realized that the gloves were off, a lot of people would be amazed with what and how fast they could learn to survive.

Post Apocalypse stories are one aspect of what I would call New World stories. These new worlds can take place on Earth, a different planet, another dimension or just in the mind. These New World stories go all the way back to Plato's Republic. Sir Thomas More wrote about Utopia. Although the stories can be fun and escapist, the writer almost always has a message to convey. It might be about the immorality of nuclear bombs (The Ship) or a warning about the ecological disaster just ahead of us. (Sorry, but I'm going to refer to my own book now.)

One of the main reasons I wrote Surviving the Fog was due to my annoyance with Lord of the Flies. In LOTF Golding muses on the nature of humankind. A group of ordinary school boys degenerates into a vicious mob. This theme is common in PA books, and yet all of the anthropological evidence points to the opposite. Inevitably, human beings form societies that work toward the common good, and this is not surprising because this in encoded in our DNA. Without a society working for the common good, our genetic code cannot be passed along. Even in the most dire circumstances, such as faced by the Donner Party in 1846, cannibalism was only practiced on those who had already perished.
My point is that PA stories are one aspect of new societies, but there is almost always a society, however small, and these new societies give the author a chance to speak on subjects ranging from morality to economic systems.

I think a key word there Stan is inevitably. Yes, humans will always form societies that work toward the common good. That doesn't mean that there won't be a time of fear, panic and anger where those vicious mobs will exist before the society is formed. It also doesn't mean that everyone belongs to the same society, and what's good for one society may not be good for another.
I do agree that PA stories do give authors the ability to give their own thoughts on new societies.

Don wrote: "I think a key word there Stan is inevitably. Yes, humans will always form societies that work toward the common good. That doesn't mean that there won't be a time of fear, panic and anger where tho..."
I agree with you Don about the time of fear, panic, anger. It's stories about times well after the PA I find unlikely. The Road is a good example. At first, I really liked the movie, but the more I thought about it, the more unlikely it seemed, especially the cannibals keeping live people as stock. The cannibalism in Quest For Fire seems more likely.

Stan wrote: "Don wrote: "I think a key word there Stan is inevitably. Yes, humans will always form societies that work toward the common good. That doesn't mean that there won't be a time of fear, panic and ang..."
I agree, human livestock for humans seems highly unlikely. In my stories which are set long after the apocalypse societies have settled in and are much smaller and closer knit. There are still dangers though such as other societies praying on your society for their greater good and smaller mob violence if you turn said society against you but all in all I agree about some kind of society working together for their greater good. Oh and on the note of cannibalism I would think that keeping human livestock would be much more of a pain than some other meat source and I always wondered if we tasted more like chicken or beef. I'm guessing beef and hoping that i never find out for sure. :)

Stan wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Mikhail wrote: "I'm really enjoying everyones opinions on this topic. As I already said, I feel very similar to Brad and Jennifer at times. I was talking to a friend about this re..."

I like your way of thinking, Stan. Perhaps teachers would be MORE valued than they seem to be today. I'm far from a cynic (mostly a glass-half-full kind of gal, actually), but the climate in education today is so dismal. Perhaps we need an apocalypse to learn what is truly valuable and to understand the true measure of ourselves. :)

Don wrote: "I agree, human livestock for humans seems highly unlikely."

It's been a while since I've read it, but 'The Road' was pretty clear that there was nothing else to eat; all the plant and animal life (save humans) was dead. McCarthy made a big deal out of the Earth itself being pretty much dead, and that these people were essentially its last gasp. Keeping humans as livestock might be a mixture of a desperation to eat anything and a perversion of societal order.

I'm not saying that it couldn't possibly get there I was saying it seems highly unlikely in my opinion. If you can keep a human alive as livestock I would think that it'd be much easier to keep something like, let's say rabbits, or chickens alive as livestock instead. I guess if someone screwed up and there were none of either of those left alive then it could come to human consumption but even then I would think it'd be more of a Donner party type thing, but again this is all just my creative opinion.

It might actually be easier to let the livestock feed themselves and then hunt them when necessary. Wow, that's disgusting. I think you are faced with practicality issues either way (aside from the obvious ethical issues). I think I'll go throw up now.

LOL none of the choice sound particularly tasty do they ?

Don wrote: "Stan wrote: "Don wrote: "I think a key word there Stan is inevitably. Yes, humans will always form societies that work toward the common good. That doesn't mean that there won't be a time of fear, ..."

I have heard (don't remember where and certainly not from personal experience) that the meat that tastes most like human flesh is...SPAM. I like SPAM, so what do you say, Eat thy neighbor, anyone? ;-)