Yevgeniy’s review of How Not to Die: Discover the Foods Scientifically Proven to Prevent and Reverse Disease > Likes and Comments
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Michael Pollan admits to having cardiovascular problems at age ~62 in "How to change your Mind". I think that speaks for itself.
Great summary! I'm 60ish pages into the book and I actually really like it and am already putting some of the advice in practice, but I'm at the same time very aware of his one dimensional approach to the subject of diets. My conclusion is already that contrary to his advice I will absolutely not stop eating fish and meats (in moderation of course), but still try to integrate most of the good advice the book gives. I strongly believe that balance, not extremism (and veganism is an extreme form of diet) is the key to a healthy _and_ enjoyable life.
People will hear whatever they want to hear I suppose.
From what I understad, veganism is not just a diet. Which is why a shampoo bottle might have the word "vegan" on it. It's a lifestyle that you choose because you don't want to use anything that came into being because of animal exploitation. So Dr Greger might not be a vegan.
Also, isn't Vitamin D and iodine often added to milk? If so, what would be the difference between drinking it and taking supplements?
Excellent comments! Personally, I follow Anthony William, author of "Medical Medium"...I eat lots of fresh, organic fruits (especially wild blueberries) and vegetables (lots of leafy greens) and a small amount of fish and meats.
I don't agree with your first bad point. there isnt anything natural about humans eating meat or dairy and many carnivores are actually more deficient than vegans are. b12 is soil based and due to our agricultural practices, we cant really extract them anymore. i think you should do more research on veganism! i research often and it is how i have learned a lot about all types of diets. there is definitely no right diet, but i do believe the myths of veganism spread quickly.
While I can appreciate your points, I just wanted to note that people who consume animals are also taking B12 supplements - your supplements are just given to the animals instead. "Livestock" are supplemented because the source of B12 is not animals themselves.
You seem like you really enjoyed the book and took away a lot from it, so I'm not sure why you'd miss the entire point of why vegan isn't the recommended go to diet until recently. The mass majority of animal farms aren't what they used to be, that's where the massive amount of the problems occur. And even in free range farms (or even wild), the land, the sea, the air isn't what it used to be. The lower the food chain the less crap can be stockpiled, and the relation doesn't grow linearly but jump massively between each layer of food chain. This is high school biology level of understanding.
Unfortunately, there definitely is some cherry picking, as almost every book does. I won't disagree there.
Veganism and plant-based are completely different...that's why he doesn't recommend being vegan. Following a vegan diet can still be terrible for your health if you only eat breads, pastas, processed foods, starches, etc. You can be vegan and terribly unhealthy. That's why he encourages plant-based. And being plant-BASED doesn't mean you need to completely avoid all animal products. It's not a black and white diet so I'm offended at your usage of the word "extreme". For example, one does not have to completely stop eating cheese ..but instead consume it in moderation if that's what's stopping them from going plant-based. At the end of the day 90% of what you eat on a daily basis should be vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, seeds, nuts, etc. Regarding your "traditional Asian diet" comment, I recommend you also read "The China Study". It's great to be skeptical and weigh pros and cons to literature but PLEASE do not make a long list of CONS that dissuade people from taking control of their health by making better dietary choices.
I wanted to read a non 5 star review. Yours was very good. I want a glass of wine with my dinner, but according to the book, this is a problem. Thoughts?
Cindy wrote: "I wanted to read a non 5 star review. Yours was very good. I want a glass of wine with my dinner, but according to the book, this is a problem. Thoughts?"
I think wine in moderation is best! : ) I've done some research on it using many verified sources...you can check it out here: https://healabel.com/w-ingredients/wine
Thank you so much for this review!! I was worried about a lot of the points you brought up, but given after all that you'd still recommend reading it, I'm going to check it out. Thank you!!
Couldn‘t agree more, very well put together.
Dr Greger does not ‘dance around’ the word vegan. He is quite clear about why he prefers the term Whole Food Plant Based. It’s because vegan diets can be unhealthy - you could be a vegan and live on chips, crisps, sweets and fizzy drinks. This is why he prefers to use the term WFPB.
He presents some research and leaves the reader to decide what to do. It’s hardly his fault if study after study shows that meat and dairy are bad for our health.
To say that a vegan diet would not have been possible in the past because vegans need supplements is incorrect. All the suggested supplements are or were available naturally in the past. Vitamin B12 comes from bacteria and people used to get it naturally in water and soil, but water treatments, farming methods and clean washed vegetables now make it necessary to supplement if you don’t eat meat. (Animals get their B12 from soil, manure exposure, drinking untreated water etc.) Vitamin D is also available naturally through sunlight, but in some parts of the world especially in winter a supplement is recommended. As for iodine, it is found in plants but as agriculture has depleted iodine in the soil the amounts may be too low. It’s also in salt and seaweed, but Dr Greger thinks a supplement is preferable to salt because of the other health issues salt is associated with.
To quote Vegan Food and Living: “A healthy vegan diet containing a wide range of vegetables, with some occasional seaweed and/or iodised salt (used sparingly) should supply sufficient iodine... Iodine may be low in a plant-based diet, but with a sprinkle of seaweed and occasional use of iodised salt, you can continue to avoid cow’s milk and fish and the harmful substances they contain.”
Thank you for such thorough review. Two points I wanted to share:
My takeaway wasn’t that you must go vegan. Rather, when making a food choice, you should think of it as a scale and always make the best possible choice, prioritising whole foods , vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds first. I also think the point he is making with the “most leading causes of death are a choice” comment is saying the same thing - choose better. I think that is probably why he isn’t explicitly saying go vegan.
Second is about your note on b12 - my understanding, and I may be wrong, as I am not a scientist - is that b12 is produced by bacteria, not animals nor plants. Meat eaters get a larger amount of b12 because the animals they eat have themselves been fed on fortified animal feed. People could therefore shortcut that by eating fortified foods, and focusing that they choose, whenever possible, foods rich in b12, like fortified cereals and drinks, nutritional yeast, marmite, etc. yes the choice is narrower, but the entire book advocates for smarter choices, this being no different.
This has got to be the most helpful book review I've ever read. Thanks very much!
I am on page 90, and am too started seeing the pattern of what Greger is implying, he has told so many times already of increasing risk of having egg, chicken, fish or red meat even once a week, that I've started doubting that, there is no culture which completely avoided dairy or fish from its eating habit, nor the prehistoric human completely shunned eating them, it really sound so extreme! I've started this book with lot of enthusiasm, and gaining lot of insights, hope it won't be another vegan advocacy book in disguise like that game changer documentary in Netflix.
Sorry but Greger never wrote that ALL meat and animal products are marked as “red light”. Only the processed ones are red, the non-processed are yellow.
He did not use the term vegan because veganism is an entire lifestyle governing the clothes that you wear, your furniture and soft furnishings, thirties household cleaners jewellery etc. He is only talking about a whole foods plant-based DIET, not even just a plant-based diet which is very different. As a scientist, he is minded to use terms appropriately. His talks explain why this is important.
Why is it that a scientist who happens to be vegan must have an agenda to promote veganism? He was actually promoted to research this way of eating because it saved his grandmother's life not because it saved animals and his vegan lifestyle began after this.
The vitamins and minerals are not so easily available as they would have been in the past because human activities such as farming have depleted the soil. B12 doesn’t come from animals. It is produced by bacteria. Our modern way of living, chlorinating water to kill bacteria, washing fruits and vegetables to remove dirt, farming practices, all limit the amount of B12 available to us to the point that even animals must be supplemented. This means people who eat meat are also taking in those second-hand supplements along with the accumulated pesticides in the animal tissue, hormones, cholesterol etc. that cause disease. So far from it being an unnatural way to eat, it is the modern-day lifestyle that prevents us from eating naturally.
He does not put ALL meat products as red-light foods either.
The focus of the book is to help people to combat the leading causes of disease using a plant-based diet. If you are trying to reverse the disease or attenuate its progression using diet it makes sense to eliminate foods that cause stress and inflammation in the body. It just so happens that whole food plant-based diets (not ‘vegan’ diets) enable this and the overconsumption of animal products is strongly associated with the disease. If we look at the modern way of eating meat where animals products are found in almost all meals and snacks that is overconsumption for the human body. He uses the example of the countries you mention as evidence that limiting animal products reduces disease. We see that as these countries have increased their consumption of animal products and abandoned their heavily plant based traditional ways of eating the diseases that he has outlined in the book have increased
People are free to incorporate red and amber light foods into their diet if they choose but these should be limited.
Inject chickens with additives? Completely false information. I was reading reviews to see if this book was something I might want to read. Thanks for your review. I’ll be moving on.
I don't think you read it carefully enough Becky
I don't mind the 'cherry picking' at all since I agreed with all of it before reading the book. He is spot on IMO.
Thank you for putting into word exactly what I came away from reading this book.
Vegan or not, a lot of people are Vitamin D and Vitamin B12 deficient without supplements. Therefore, it is not limited to just the plant based eaters. Also veganism is very different from plant based. To some, vegan means no leather or fur or using products containing animal products/tested on animals. It also can include foods like Oreos or GS Thin Mint cookies, which are, in fact vegan. However, he advocates for a plant based diet, which does not includee those processed foods. That is the difference. He also has over 100 pages of reports and data to back up every claim. That hardly seems cherry-picking to me. Personally, I went plant based 3 years ago and all my blood work, weight and other health conditions or concerns have 100 percent gone away--without meds. It does work.
I have to wonder whether the author is yet another manipulated manipulator of the disguised or hidden democidal superclass that largely rules most if not all the world.
Jen, you are being blindsided by the meat industry of you believe meat is not being injected with additives and a whole level of other stuff. Goodness, there is no talking to some people
Your review is thorough and insightful, thanks! I am personally whole food-plant based going on 7 years now. These books and related Youtube videos are good motivation. I do agree that evidence is weak for some recommendations. I'm always skeptical of studies for a single food item. They tend to be pretty weak. I stick to groups of foods but make sure I meet vitamin and mineral RDA.
Good review, I had similar issues with the book, so it was a DNF for me. I just couldn't take the 'we don't really know if turmeric really helps but just eat it anyway' anymore after a while.
Whats so scary about having a plant based diet 😅 its healthier and the supplements he suggested are perfectly explained. People are just scared of making big significant changes to their lives when they have been living a certain way for so long.
Excellent review, all stating the same issues I had with the book. A few nuggets of valuable information, but too many vague assumptions and cherry-picked research. I wondered if I waited too long to read this - I have read more recent books on health, longevity and nutrition that make this one feel out of date.
I felt the same way. Thanks for citing the specific caveats.
Cherry picking, yes, that is my perception of your book review. You acknowledge the weight of knowledge referenced in the book but don’t like the *idea* of veganism. Yes there are studies which go against some of the studies referenced in this book, but that is the case with literally everything when it comes to nutrition. Hence why he founded an organisation to read basically every nutrition study published, to synthesise advise based on the BEST available science. In other words, just because someone has published a journal article that doesn’t make it the truth. There is a ton of junk science, heavily influenced by profit motives & this is something Dr Greger is very open about & mentions frequently.
If you look at nutrition studies where whole food, plant based diets have been compared to literally any other diet (even Mediterranean & vegetarian diets), every single time a WFPB is the obvious best choice. Sadly, most nutrition studies don’t actually do this but instead compare average diets to the vegetarian diet & then make assumptive claims about all vegan diets based on that, which is very misleading & not scientific, but scientists can be biased just like everyone else.
If people feel this book is outdated, his newest book is one of the most heavily researched nutrition books ever written, with an insane amount of studies referenced.
At the end of the day all people need to do is try Dr Greger’s advice and see the results for themselves. There are other doctors using this same type of diet to treat lupus, fibro, MS, it should be considered a miracle & if there was a pill to achieve what this diet can do, it’d be worth billions of dollars!
Many meat eaters need supplements as well including B12, iodine as you mentioned. And most individuals are vit d deficient, esp if you live more northerly.
The reason plant-based eaters are deficient in B12 is because the main source of B12 is dirt. The dirt you get from home-grown vegetables that haven’t been washed well. The things people used to eat, but don’t anymore unless they grow the veggies in the own garden. The B12 in milk come from the way the food was handled - passed on through the teats. Plant-based is not the reason people are deficient. It’s modern processing methods.
People primarily get D from sunlight exposure. And many people stay indoors all day now. Non-plant-based eaters get D from forified foods like milk. Aka it was artificially added in. So again, not a plant-based problem. It’s a lifestyle problem.
You said literally everything I think about the book!! It's like you read my thoughts and then wrote the most perfect review, explaining everything better than I ever could. How did you do that? :D
Good review but it‘s not accurate.
* B12 is addes to most meat (non organic, free range) since this is obtained through pasture which high intensiti facilities do not allow
* greger mentions east asian diets as historically they make use of less meat, hence him not defining these as vegans
* cherry picked research is because the book is about disclosing what is not available due to lack of media support and funding (read lobbying)
I am flexitarian and this book did motivate me to reduce meat kntake. only thing that will prevents me to go full vegan is that I have high metabolism and unfortunately i loose too much wait on the Vegan standanrd.
Here’s a really good one to read: Beyond Labels
Because you can be vegan and eat like crap. Which he mentions. You can be vegan and live on French fries and beer. So it’s not veganism he recommends but while food plant based.
Other cultures may not be completely meat free and animal product free but they eat it much less frequently. Which is what he recommends. If you need to eat meat sometimes to eat a majority plant based diet then do so! He talks about not being black and white about it. Less animal products is the better what to go. So those cultures are healthier!
I don’t know that Greger “dances around using the term vegan,” but I think that he avoids using the vegan label because it’s inaccurate. You can be vegan and eat mostly processed foods. A plant based diet is about avoiding animal products, but also eating mostly plants. I think the recommendation is to be vegan AND plant based which aligns with the research presented.
As far as contradictory research, he mentions some of the biased studies published by the meat and dairy industries. The problem is it’s hard to get funding to conduct research on a plant based diet so we have limited information.
I’ve followed Dr. Greger’s advice and I’m not a vegan. Red light foods aren’t prohibited, they’re to be eaten in small quantities. As someone who lives in the south and grew up on plates of meat and potatoes, it’s been very helpful to think of meat as a flavoring instead of as the main course.
I'm not sure that I agree with many of your cons.
1) He isn't recommending veganism, and he isn't dancing around it - I believe he explicitly indicates he's not advocating a philosophy and hence why he doesn't say vegan. He is expressly indicating he suggests eating plant-based. Vegan is about more than just not eating animal products and extends to all kinds of other things like not eating honey or buy leather. Gregor is suggesting that the vast majority of a person's diet should be plant foods, and in fact it's only PROCESSED animal foods that are on the red light list - unprocessed animal foods are yellow light food. He expressly discusses the fact that a sprinkle of Parmesan cheese on your salad for instance, if it helps you eat said salad, is fine.
Also not all vegans require supplementation, because as Gregor again addresses, vegan doesn't mean plant based and healthy - you can eat all kinds of vegan food and be eating ultra high processed junk food and utterly unhealthy. Hence why he is expressly NOT just saying eat vegan and why his suggested diet wouldn't require supplements - eating a wide variety of fruits, veggies, grains, nuts, seeds would give you all the vitamins you'd typically need, and he expressly discusses some foods like ferments and nutritional yeast that are high in some of the nutrients you mentioned.
2) Yes, the traditional diets he references do include animal products - usually low amounts of them. He again expressly mentions this throughout the book, and this isn't contrary to the diet he is suggesting throughout the book.
3) It'd be next to impossible for Greger to show the science for ALL food - he refers frequently to his website where you can see more. I won't disagree about cherry picking though, but I think that's sort of the nature of a book of this wide scale.
4) You say there are downsides to trying things that may not work because they could have unintended side effects like if you eat less fat you eat more refined carbs. That....would be the opposite of what he's suggesting though. The suggestions he makes that aren't utterly proven in science are things like eat more veggies and fruits, and he explicitly says 'even if they don't cure cancer/heart disease/whatever, the downside is...you're eating more produce!' Your suggested downsides of things like 'displacing fat results in more refined carbs' makes sense if one is literally cherry picking the book to say something like 'I'll eat apples to improve X and will let apples replace all other foods so I die of other kinds of malnutrition' but that's not what he's advocating; he advocates a wide and varied diet and extensively explains WHY you need a variety. So cherry picking of the variety you have concerns about would expressly be contrary to what he suggests. You also say that diet changes are hard so you only want to do ones that work - that's accurate, but the overall advice he gives isn't to add super specific things to your died like you must add apples and celery, it's to eat mainly plant based foods in a wide variety. The closest he gets to super specific eat precisely this food is with VERY well researched items; otherwise it's things like eat more leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables and fruit.
Funny how people always point out that vegans need a bunch of supplements. For one thing, most factory farmed animals are given B12 supplements. So, I just take the supplement, and don't eat the animal. Also, grocery stores have huge sections FULL of supplements, and who do you think takes those supplements? The 1% of the population that is vegan? No, most supplements are taken by non vegans. And so what if I have to take b12, and maybe a few others on occasion? It beats having heart disease, cancer, and diabetes... and being on a bunch of medications to stay alive. Don't even get me started on the animal cruelty, and the environmental issues....
So you know…historically plant based diets were absolutely natural and possible “in the wild”. Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria and therefore found in animal guts as well as water and soil. Historically a plant based diet wouldn’t haven’t been deficient in B12 as it’d be consumed in small amounts on the food and water - but modern food and sanitation means that B12 effectively isn’t found in quantities needed (other than in animal guts) and therefore modern people with plant based diets are advised to supplement it. Which for most is extremely easy with fortified products e.g. plant milks, or directly taking B12. A small price to pay for getting all of those health benefits proved (not too mention the animal ethics)
Yes, this! I've been reading this and really enjoying it, but your "bad" points are exactly what I'm struggling with. I'd love to see him tell me (for one example) why he believes fish oil bad/unnecessary when there are loads of compelling studies saying otherwise. I'd like to see him address the counterpoint head on, instead of ignoring it, but giving a different study (cherry-picked as you said) that shows his belief. I also noticed that the book makes me feel slightly stressed as I read and I think that's because it really is like, "Moderation won't work. Go vegan."
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Feb 08, 2019 09:07AM
Michael Pollan admits to having cardiovascular problems at age ~62 in "How to change your Mind". I think that speaks for itself.
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Great summary! I'm 60ish pages into the book and I actually really like it and am already putting some of the advice in practice, but I'm at the same time very aware of his one dimensional approach to the subject of diets. My conclusion is already that contrary to his advice I will absolutely not stop eating fish and meats (in moderation of course), but still try to integrate most of the good advice the book gives. I strongly believe that balance, not extremism (and veganism is an extreme form of diet) is the key to a healthy _and_ enjoyable life.
People will hear whatever they want to hear I suppose.
From what I understad, veganism is not just a diet. Which is why a shampoo bottle might have the word "vegan" on it. It's a lifestyle that you choose because you don't want to use anything that came into being because of animal exploitation. So Dr Greger might not be a vegan. Also, isn't Vitamin D and iodine often added to milk? If so, what would be the difference between drinking it and taking supplements?
Excellent comments! Personally, I follow Anthony William, author of "Medical Medium"...I eat lots of fresh, organic fruits (especially wild blueberries) and vegetables (lots of leafy greens) and a small amount of fish and meats.
I don't agree with your first bad point. there isnt anything natural about humans eating meat or dairy and many carnivores are actually more deficient than vegans are. b12 is soil based and due to our agricultural practices, we cant really extract them anymore. i think you should do more research on veganism! i research often and it is how i have learned a lot about all types of diets. there is definitely no right diet, but i do believe the myths of veganism spread quickly.
While I can appreciate your points, I just wanted to note that people who consume animals are also taking B12 supplements - your supplements are just given to the animals instead. "Livestock" are supplemented because the source of B12 is not animals themselves.
You seem like you really enjoyed the book and took away a lot from it, so I'm not sure why you'd miss the entire point of why vegan isn't the recommended go to diet until recently. The mass majority of animal farms aren't what they used to be, that's where the massive amount of the problems occur. And even in free range farms (or even wild), the land, the sea, the air isn't what it used to be. The lower the food chain the less crap can be stockpiled, and the relation doesn't grow linearly but jump massively between each layer of food chain. This is high school biology level of understanding. Unfortunately, there definitely is some cherry picking, as almost every book does. I won't disagree there.
Veganism and plant-based are completely different...that's why he doesn't recommend being vegan. Following a vegan diet can still be terrible for your health if you only eat breads, pastas, processed foods, starches, etc. You can be vegan and terribly unhealthy. That's why he encourages plant-based. And being plant-BASED doesn't mean you need to completely avoid all animal products. It's not a black and white diet so I'm offended at your usage of the word "extreme". For example, one does not have to completely stop eating cheese ..but instead consume it in moderation if that's what's stopping them from going plant-based. At the end of the day 90% of what you eat on a daily basis should be vegetables, fruits, grains, legumes, seeds, nuts, etc. Regarding your "traditional Asian diet" comment, I recommend you also read "The China Study". It's great to be skeptical and weigh pros and cons to literature but PLEASE do not make a long list of CONS that dissuade people from taking control of their health by making better dietary choices.
I wanted to read a non 5 star review. Yours was very good. I want a glass of wine with my dinner, but according to the book, this is a problem. Thoughts?
Cindy wrote: "I wanted to read a non 5 star review. Yours was very good. I want a glass of wine with my dinner, but according to the book, this is a problem. Thoughts?"I think wine in moderation is best! : ) I've done some research on it using many verified sources...you can check it out here: https://healabel.com/w-ingredients/wine
Thank you so much for this review!! I was worried about a lot of the points you brought up, but given after all that you'd still recommend reading it, I'm going to check it out. Thank you!!
Couldn‘t agree more, very well put together.
Dr Greger does not ‘dance around’ the word vegan. He is quite clear about why he prefers the term Whole Food Plant Based. It’s because vegan diets can be unhealthy - you could be a vegan and live on chips, crisps, sweets and fizzy drinks. This is why he prefers to use the term WFPB. He presents some research and leaves the reader to decide what to do. It’s hardly his fault if study after study shows that meat and dairy are bad for our health.
To say that a vegan diet would not have been possible in the past because vegans need supplements is incorrect. All the suggested supplements are or were available naturally in the past. Vitamin B12 comes from bacteria and people used to get it naturally in water and soil, but water treatments, farming methods and clean washed vegetables now make it necessary to supplement if you don’t eat meat. (Animals get their B12 from soil, manure exposure, drinking untreated water etc.) Vitamin D is also available naturally through sunlight, but in some parts of the world especially in winter a supplement is recommended. As for iodine, it is found in plants but as agriculture has depleted iodine in the soil the amounts may be too low. It’s also in salt and seaweed, but Dr Greger thinks a supplement is preferable to salt because of the other health issues salt is associated with.
To quote Vegan Food and Living: “A healthy vegan diet containing a wide range of vegetables, with some occasional seaweed and/or iodised salt (used sparingly) should supply sufficient iodine... Iodine may be low in a plant-based diet, but with a sprinkle of seaweed and occasional use of iodised salt, you can continue to avoid cow’s milk and fish and the harmful substances they contain.”
Thank you for such thorough review. Two points I wanted to share:My takeaway wasn’t that you must go vegan. Rather, when making a food choice, you should think of it as a scale and always make the best possible choice, prioritising whole foods , vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds first. I also think the point he is making with the “most leading causes of death are a choice” comment is saying the same thing - choose better. I think that is probably why he isn’t explicitly saying go vegan.
Second is about your note on b12 - my understanding, and I may be wrong, as I am not a scientist - is that b12 is produced by bacteria, not animals nor plants. Meat eaters get a larger amount of b12 because the animals they eat have themselves been fed on fortified animal feed. People could therefore shortcut that by eating fortified foods, and focusing that they choose, whenever possible, foods rich in b12, like fortified cereals and drinks, nutritional yeast, marmite, etc. yes the choice is narrower, but the entire book advocates for smarter choices, this being no different.
This has got to be the most helpful book review I've ever read. Thanks very much!
I am on page 90, and am too started seeing the pattern of what Greger is implying, he has told so many times already of increasing risk of having egg, chicken, fish or red meat even once a week, that I've started doubting that, there is no culture which completely avoided dairy or fish from its eating habit, nor the prehistoric human completely shunned eating them, it really sound so extreme! I've started this book with lot of enthusiasm, and gaining lot of insights, hope it won't be another vegan advocacy book in disguise like that game changer documentary in Netflix.
Sorry but Greger never wrote that ALL meat and animal products are marked as “red light”. Only the processed ones are red, the non-processed are yellow.
He did not use the term vegan because veganism is an entire lifestyle governing the clothes that you wear, your furniture and soft furnishings, thirties household cleaners jewellery etc. He is only talking about a whole foods plant-based DIET, not even just a plant-based diet which is very different. As a scientist, he is minded to use terms appropriately. His talks explain why this is important. Why is it that a scientist who happens to be vegan must have an agenda to promote veganism? He was actually promoted to research this way of eating because it saved his grandmother's life not because it saved animals and his vegan lifestyle began after this.
The vitamins and minerals are not so easily available as they would have been in the past because human activities such as farming have depleted the soil. B12 doesn’t come from animals. It is produced by bacteria. Our modern way of living, chlorinating water to kill bacteria, washing fruits and vegetables to remove dirt, farming practices, all limit the amount of B12 available to us to the point that even animals must be supplemented. This means people who eat meat are also taking in those second-hand supplements along with the accumulated pesticides in the animal tissue, hormones, cholesterol etc. that cause disease. So far from it being an unnatural way to eat, it is the modern-day lifestyle that prevents us from eating naturally.
He does not put ALL meat products as red-light foods either.
The focus of the book is to help people to combat the leading causes of disease using a plant-based diet. If you are trying to reverse the disease or attenuate its progression using diet it makes sense to eliminate foods that cause stress and inflammation in the body. It just so happens that whole food plant-based diets (not ‘vegan’ diets) enable this and the overconsumption of animal products is strongly associated with the disease. If we look at the modern way of eating meat where animals products are found in almost all meals and snacks that is overconsumption for the human body. He uses the example of the countries you mention as evidence that limiting animal products reduces disease. We see that as these countries have increased their consumption of animal products and abandoned their heavily plant based traditional ways of eating the diseases that he has outlined in the book have increased
People are free to incorporate red and amber light foods into their diet if they choose but these should be limited.
Inject chickens with additives? Completely false information. I was reading reviews to see if this book was something I might want to read. Thanks for your review. I’ll be moving on.
I don't think you read it carefully enough Becky
I don't mind the 'cherry picking' at all since I agreed with all of it before reading the book. He is spot on IMO.
Thank you for putting into word exactly what I came away from reading this book.
Vegan or not, a lot of people are Vitamin D and Vitamin B12 deficient without supplements. Therefore, it is not limited to just the plant based eaters. Also veganism is very different from plant based. To some, vegan means no leather or fur or using products containing animal products/tested on animals. It also can include foods like Oreos or GS Thin Mint cookies, which are, in fact vegan. However, he advocates for a plant based diet, which does not includee those processed foods. That is the difference. He also has over 100 pages of reports and data to back up every claim. That hardly seems cherry-picking to me. Personally, I went plant based 3 years ago and all my blood work, weight and other health conditions or concerns have 100 percent gone away--without meds. It does work.
I have to wonder whether the author is yet another manipulated manipulator of the disguised or hidden democidal superclass that largely rules most if not all the world.
Jen, you are being blindsided by the meat industry of you believe meat is not being injected with additives and a whole level of other stuff. Goodness, there is no talking to some people
Your review is thorough and insightful, thanks! I am personally whole food-plant based going on 7 years now. These books and related Youtube videos are good motivation. I do agree that evidence is weak for some recommendations. I'm always skeptical of studies for a single food item. They tend to be pretty weak. I stick to groups of foods but make sure I meet vitamin and mineral RDA.
Good review, I had similar issues with the book, so it was a DNF for me. I just couldn't take the 'we don't really know if turmeric really helps but just eat it anyway' anymore after a while.
Whats so scary about having a plant based diet 😅 its healthier and the supplements he suggested are perfectly explained. People are just scared of making big significant changes to their lives when they have been living a certain way for so long.
Excellent review, all stating the same issues I had with the book. A few nuggets of valuable information, but too many vague assumptions and cherry-picked research. I wondered if I waited too long to read this - I have read more recent books on health, longevity and nutrition that make this one feel out of date.
I felt the same way. Thanks for citing the specific caveats.
Cherry picking, yes, that is my perception of your book review. You acknowledge the weight of knowledge referenced in the book but don’t like the *idea* of veganism. Yes there are studies which go against some of the studies referenced in this book, but that is the case with literally everything when it comes to nutrition. Hence why he founded an organisation to read basically every nutrition study published, to synthesise advise based on the BEST available science. In other words, just because someone has published a journal article that doesn’t make it the truth. There is a ton of junk science, heavily influenced by profit motives & this is something Dr Greger is very open about & mentions frequently. If you look at nutrition studies where whole food, plant based diets have been compared to literally any other diet (even Mediterranean & vegetarian diets), every single time a WFPB is the obvious best choice. Sadly, most nutrition studies don’t actually do this but instead compare average diets to the vegetarian diet & then make assumptive claims about all vegan diets based on that, which is very misleading & not scientific, but scientists can be biased just like everyone else.
If people feel this book is outdated, his newest book is one of the most heavily researched nutrition books ever written, with an insane amount of studies referenced.
At the end of the day all people need to do is try Dr Greger’s advice and see the results for themselves. There are other doctors using this same type of diet to treat lupus, fibro, MS, it should be considered a miracle & if there was a pill to achieve what this diet can do, it’d be worth billions of dollars!
Many meat eaters need supplements as well including B12, iodine as you mentioned. And most individuals are vit d deficient, esp if you live more northerly.
The reason plant-based eaters are deficient in B12 is because the main source of B12 is dirt. The dirt you get from home-grown vegetables that haven’t been washed well. The things people used to eat, but don’t anymore unless they grow the veggies in the own garden. The B12 in milk come from the way the food was handled - passed on through the teats. Plant-based is not the reason people are deficient. It’s modern processing methods. People primarily get D from sunlight exposure. And many people stay indoors all day now. Non-plant-based eaters get D from forified foods like milk. Aka it was artificially added in. So again, not a plant-based problem. It’s a lifestyle problem.
You said literally everything I think about the book!! It's like you read my thoughts and then wrote the most perfect review, explaining everything better than I ever could. How did you do that? :D
Good review but it‘s not accurate. * B12 is addes to most meat (non organic, free range) since this is obtained through pasture which high intensiti facilities do not allow
* greger mentions east asian diets as historically they make use of less meat, hence him not defining these as vegans
* cherry picked research is because the book is about disclosing what is not available due to lack of media support and funding (read lobbying)
I am flexitarian and this book did motivate me to reduce meat kntake. only thing that will prevents me to go full vegan is that I have high metabolism and unfortunately i loose too much wait on the Vegan standanrd.
Here’s a really good one to read: Beyond Labels
Because you can be vegan and eat like crap. Which he mentions. You can be vegan and live on French fries and beer. So it’s not veganism he recommends but while food plant based. Other cultures may not be completely meat free and animal product free but they eat it much less frequently. Which is what he recommends. If you need to eat meat sometimes to eat a majority plant based diet then do so! He talks about not being black and white about it. Less animal products is the better what to go. So those cultures are healthier!
I don’t know that Greger “dances around using the term vegan,” but I think that he avoids using the vegan label because it’s inaccurate. You can be vegan and eat mostly processed foods. A plant based diet is about avoiding animal products, but also eating mostly plants. I think the recommendation is to be vegan AND plant based which aligns with the research presented. As far as contradictory research, he mentions some of the biased studies published by the meat and dairy industries. The problem is it’s hard to get funding to conduct research on a plant based diet so we have limited information.
I’ve followed Dr. Greger’s advice and I’m not a vegan. Red light foods aren’t prohibited, they’re to be eaten in small quantities. As someone who lives in the south and grew up on plates of meat and potatoes, it’s been very helpful to think of meat as a flavoring instead of as the main course.
I'm not sure that I agree with many of your cons.1) He isn't recommending veganism, and he isn't dancing around it - I believe he explicitly indicates he's not advocating a philosophy and hence why he doesn't say vegan. He is expressly indicating he suggests eating plant-based. Vegan is about more than just not eating animal products and extends to all kinds of other things like not eating honey or buy leather. Gregor is suggesting that the vast majority of a person's diet should be plant foods, and in fact it's only PROCESSED animal foods that are on the red light list - unprocessed animal foods are yellow light food. He expressly discusses the fact that a sprinkle of Parmesan cheese on your salad for instance, if it helps you eat said salad, is fine.
Also not all vegans require supplementation, because as Gregor again addresses, vegan doesn't mean plant based and healthy - you can eat all kinds of vegan food and be eating ultra high processed junk food and utterly unhealthy. Hence why he is expressly NOT just saying eat vegan and why his suggested diet wouldn't require supplements - eating a wide variety of fruits, veggies, grains, nuts, seeds would give you all the vitamins you'd typically need, and he expressly discusses some foods like ferments and nutritional yeast that are high in some of the nutrients you mentioned.
2) Yes, the traditional diets he references do include animal products - usually low amounts of them. He again expressly mentions this throughout the book, and this isn't contrary to the diet he is suggesting throughout the book.
3) It'd be next to impossible for Greger to show the science for ALL food - he refers frequently to his website where you can see more. I won't disagree about cherry picking though, but I think that's sort of the nature of a book of this wide scale.
4) You say there are downsides to trying things that may not work because they could have unintended side effects like if you eat less fat you eat more refined carbs. That....would be the opposite of what he's suggesting though. The suggestions he makes that aren't utterly proven in science are things like eat more veggies and fruits, and he explicitly says 'even if they don't cure cancer/heart disease/whatever, the downside is...you're eating more produce!' Your suggested downsides of things like 'displacing fat results in more refined carbs' makes sense if one is literally cherry picking the book to say something like 'I'll eat apples to improve X and will let apples replace all other foods so I die of other kinds of malnutrition' but that's not what he's advocating; he advocates a wide and varied diet and extensively explains WHY you need a variety. So cherry picking of the variety you have concerns about would expressly be contrary to what he suggests. You also say that diet changes are hard so you only want to do ones that work - that's accurate, but the overall advice he gives isn't to add super specific things to your died like you must add apples and celery, it's to eat mainly plant based foods in a wide variety. The closest he gets to super specific eat precisely this food is with VERY well researched items; otherwise it's things like eat more leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables and fruit.
Funny how people always point out that vegans need a bunch of supplements. For one thing, most factory farmed animals are given B12 supplements. So, I just take the supplement, and don't eat the animal. Also, grocery stores have huge sections FULL of supplements, and who do you think takes those supplements? The 1% of the population that is vegan? No, most supplements are taken by non vegans. And so what if I have to take b12, and maybe a few others on occasion? It beats having heart disease, cancer, and diabetes... and being on a bunch of medications to stay alive. Don't even get me started on the animal cruelty, and the environmental issues....
So you know…historically plant based diets were absolutely natural and possible “in the wild”. Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria and therefore found in animal guts as well as water and soil. Historically a plant based diet wouldn’t haven’t been deficient in B12 as it’d be consumed in small amounts on the food and water - but modern food and sanitation means that B12 effectively isn’t found in quantities needed (other than in animal guts) and therefore modern people with plant based diets are advised to supplement it. Which for most is extremely easy with fortified products e.g. plant milks, or directly taking B12. A small price to pay for getting all of those health benefits proved (not too mention the animal ethics)
Yes, this! I've been reading this and really enjoying it, but your "bad" points are exactly what I'm struggling with. I'd love to see him tell me (for one example) why he believes fish oil bad/unnecessary when there are loads of compelling studies saying otherwise. I'd like to see him address the counterpoint head on, instead of ignoring it, but giving a different study (cherry-picked as you said) that shows his belief. I also noticed that the book makes me feel slightly stressed as I read and I think that's because it really is like, "Moderation won't work. Go vegan."
