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Is this the first time we get a demon's point of view rather than its rider's?
Aw, Lois! Thanks for the link to The Incomparable. We love you over there.
Snow reminded me of Lenny, a local Percheron (17.2 hands, white and extremely placid) who often gets rented to deliver the groom to Indian weddings in New England, since there are very few white elephants around here.
There is a Boston Globe article about him that I'll try to excerpt here...
The summer’s busiest wedding vendor? It may be a horse named Lenny.
It’s a big change from an Amish farm for Lenny, who’s blowing up on the South Asian wedding circuit.
By Beth Teitell Globe Staff,Updated July 7, 2022, 6:24 a.m.
You think it’s hard getting a venue or makeup artist this wedding season? Try booking Lenny the horse, a 22-year-old from Rhode Island who’s blown up on the South Asian wedding circuit.
“Lenny needs a Google calendar,” said Julie Kliever, Lenny’s administrative assistant (and co-owner).
If there’s a baraat or a Vidaai within two hours of his barn, at New Deal Horse and Carriage in North Kingstown, Lenny is likely to be there.
It wasn’t long ago that Lenny (or his owners) had no idea about baraat or Vidaai ceremonies. They had never heard of the joyous procession (or baraat) that involves a groom riding something — an elephant, a convertible, a white horse — to meet his bride and her family at her house or the wedding venue. Or the farewell ceremony where the bride and groom depart in a carriage (the Vidaai).
Today, wedding planners ask for Lenny by name, and his website shows him decked out in red and gold, posing amid people wearing turbans and saris. He’s been surrounded by Indian, Pakistani, or Bangladeshi guests chanting “Leh-NEE! Leh-NEE! Leh-NEE!”
But he started life on an Amish farm in Ohio, pulling equipment, and the early requests for his services ran along the lines of, “Do you have a white horse for a groom to ride?”
Lenny came to Rhode Island by way of Connecticut in 2012, when Julie and Jack Kliever needed a horse after the sudden and devastating death of Ted, half of a two-brother Percheron gelding team.
Lenny, also a Percheron gelding, is tall (17.2 hands in horse terms) and gleaming white with kind, dark eyes, and thick white lashes. His vibe is so zen he could be a meditation influencer.
Lenny has his hooves painted gold in preparation for an Indian baraat ceremony.
He’s lovingly described as a “goofball” and a “klutz” by Julie Kliever. His former owner, who was forced to sell him after a change in life circumstances, missed him so much that it was five years before she could look at a picture of him without crying, she e-mailed the Klievers.
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Lenny was brought on to do hayrides, but for a while, he also moonlighted as a police horse, and worked private security gigs. He still does funerals and Santa work, and non-South Asian weddings too.
But with New England venues increasingly hosting large, traditional South Asian weddings, according to Aarati Naidu of Firgun Events, there’s a niche for a horse who can keep his cool amid dancing crowds, drumming, and a boombox blaring everything from Bhangra to Michael Jackson.
Depending on travel time, Lenny earns between $1,000 and $1,500 a gig. Plus mints.
“He’s 100 percent professional,” said Rishi Bawa, the owner of Silk Events, a DJ and lighting firm, who has worked regularly with Lenny.
A Saturday in late June found Lenny at the Fairmont Copley Plaza, or rather outside of it (horses are not yet welcomed into hotels).
Lenny paraded Rishi Wadhera through the streets of Copley as part of his baraat ceremony.
The groom, Rishi Wadhera — a love-struck cardiologist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center — would not arrive until 4:30, but Lenny got to town at 3:30, and like all working Joes trying to make a buck in the big city, immediately encountered a parking problem.
The wedding planner, Nicole Simeral of Boston and Palm Beach, had taped “No Stopping Anytime” signs to three parking meters on the street behind the hotel — ample space for Lenny’s “Air Horse One” truck — but of course, two signs had been ignored.
“I called the police to have the cars towed,” Simeral said in a “this is being handled” tone, her Louis Vuitton bag tucked under her arm as she strode to the middle of the third spot (still empty) in the blazing sun to guard it from scofflaws.
Incredibly, the parking was sorted out — with the discovery of an empty commercial spot around the corner — and Lenny sauntered down his ramp, 1,750 pounds of animal suddenly on a Back Bay sidewalk.
His appearance in the middle of it all — a big construction project, nearby duck boats, the hot afternoon sun — jolted people, if only momentarily, out of their lives.
Three teenage boys dropped their attitude and posed like children in front of him. A man who looked down on his luck asked if he could pat him (yes). A Bostonian smiled.
Rishi Wadhera tossed his turban atop friends during his baraat ceremony in Copley Square.
With the baraat nearing, and Lenny happily snacking on hay from a bag tied to the exterior of his truck, Lenny’s staff — the Klievers and an assistant, Luis Del Rio — began applying his look.
They combed his forelock and tail, clipped flowers into his mane, painted his hooves with hoof oil infused with gold glitter — and gossiped about their star colleague.
“He thinks it’s a party for him,” Julie Kliever said.
“Weddings are perfect for Lenny,” Jack Kliever said. “There’s a lot of entertainment and not much work, and Lenny doesn’t like to work.”
Suddenly it was 4:30, and Trinity Place, a side street just off Copley Plaza, came alive with music and dancing and what can only be described as sheer joy. It felt like a Bollywood movie shoot had broken out where before there had only been the backs of buildings.
The groom was there, and his groomsmen, energetic and glowing in their gold tunics, and a white convertible BMW appeared, with a flower garland on its hood and a sound system on its rear, and a Dholi (a drummer), and the groom’s beautiful dancing mother.
Soon the groom was atop Lenny, and the happy knot of guests slowly made its way up the short street, taking a left onto busy St. James Avenue, to the delight of some drivers and, need it be said, to the annoyance of others.
And then, about 30 minutes after the baraat started, the groom dismounted in front of the hotel, and went to greet the family and friends of his bride, Prakriti Gaba, a cardiology fellow at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. About 200 guests crowded around, while off to the side, Lenny, the consummate professional, waited to hear that his work was done, and then headed back around the corner to his truck.
He was offered but refused hay and water. He stomped a few times. He was called a “noodge” by Julie Kliever.
And then he walked up his ramp into the van, and drove off into Boston traffic. The next weekend Lenny would do it all again, twice.
Connie wrote: "Snow reminded me of Lenny, a local Percheron (17.2 hands, white and extremely placid) who often gets rented to deliver the groom to Indian weddings in New England, since there are very few white el..."
Wonderful story! Reminds me of Gregor and Laisa's wedding.
Ta, L.
I suppose it often happens in any long series that the cast of named characters keeps increasing: every story tends to add a few more. Some die and some are left behind in other locations, but many of them are still around. I’m not complaining, but it must become quite a job for the author to keep track of them all. When writing a new story, which of them should be mentioned in it? If not mentioned, why not? Would it be natural for them to be out of sight and out of mind during the story?
In real life, I suppose that people left behind in other locations might sometimes happen to visit or send a message; although, true, it often happens that they just fade out. And visits or messages don’t need to be mentioned if they’re not relevant to the current story.
The Lenny article (manual copy-and-paste required because of Goodreads' external link policy):
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/07/07/metro/summers-busiest-wedding-vendor-it-may-be-horse-named-lenny/
Bo wrote: "Is this the first time we get a demon's point of view rather than its rider's?"
Yes. I have long wanted to explore that, but Des's 13-part mind is much too complex for me to tackle that way. Spirit-Itola-Iva gave me a more manageable task.
Ta, L.
Jonathan wrote: "I suppose it often happens in any long series that the cast of named characters keeps increasing: every story tends to add a few more. Some die and some are left behind in other locations, but many..."
I think you answered your own question, but I have heard complaints about other series where the author spends a lot of time checking in with prior cast members, impeding the flow of the current tale. Or recapping to excess. The constraints of the novella length help me keep that impulse under control.
Every first series story has an unwritten backstory, some of which will prove relevant and much of which will not. The trick (which I learned, like so many things, from my long-time mentor Pat Wrede) is simply to treat the prior tales in a series just like the backstory of a first novel. The (experienced) writer doesn't usually need to recount the character's or the world's biography from birth before starting Scene One. Pat once dubbed that "scaffolding"; useful props for building that need to be taken down and tucked out of the way before the structure is actually put to use.
Ta, L.
Iva reminded me of my mother, who also died quite young of cancer. (nearly half a decade younger than I am now in fact) It endeared me to her and her demon instantly. I enjoyed seeing the demon's perspective, particularly the generation gap between Itola and Iva.
It made me think how the impressions of the demon remind me of the memories of those who have past. Their face, their voice, their words, mannerisms, or personality can be called up in the memory. Replayed at will or reimagined, those echoes can be positive or negative and can influence your forward decisions as much or as little as you choose to allow. It was a connection between the story world and the real world I hadn't really made before when reading these stories and I am enjoying exploring this new perspective.
The white horse twist was wonderful. I didn't see it coming and laughed right along with Pen. I had figured he would run into the saint haphazardly at some point, but the details with the white horse and the racing cart and so forth were unexpected and added a lot of enjoyment
I really enjoyed the personalities of the new characters and how distinctive and different they were from previous characters. I liked that Pen is pushing for less formal education for some and recognizing that not everyone is cut out for seminary. It is a very hot topic these days for the young with colleges so expensive. I have many folks in my life who are in their teens and twenties navigating it all and I see the struggles they have, particularly for those who aren't interested in lengthy reading (due to dyslexia in one particular case) or expensive educations. It was nice to see that reflected in this story world and really made me curious as to how it may all play out. I loved how this story particularly seems to open up a lot of potential avenues for future stories and characters beyond just Pen's personal life line.
I Loved this novella. I loved how thought provoking it was on many subjects. I look forward to more read throughs to see what catches my eye next time through.
I have to note, the line about "I wasn't done being Iva" really moved me. I felt it deep in my heart for all the loved ones I have known who didn't seem to have as much time as they should have.
Lois wrote: “I have heard complaints about other series where the author spends a lot of time checking in with prior cast members, impeding the flow of the current tale. Or recapping to excess.”
Indeed, it’s not necessary to mention everyone, which would get in the way of the story; and you’re pretty good at managing your characters. I wonder whether you do it by instinct, or whether you consciously check through the full cast list in case there’s anyone whose absence from the story might seem odd.
I continue to be amazed at the different scenarios you create from Pen & Des' story and situation. While it was immediately obvious that Spirit and Cin were going to come together, their courtship felt true, and very touching. And your handling of their POV with what they could see and what they couldn't (and what happened because of it) was also so different from what came before.
And finally, I got definite Georgette Heyer vibes from the disastrous cart race. It made me laugh. Thanks for another great addition to the P&D canon.
Sandy wrote: “It made me think how the impressions of the demon remind me of the memories of those who have past … I liked that Pen is pushing for less formal education for some and recognizing that not everyone is cut out for seminary.”
Good comments, Sandy. My parents and sister are dead, but I meet them again in dreams sometimes, and I have photos to remind me further.
And I agree that, while lengthy formal education may be useful for some, for most people I think it’s overkill and not really useful. We can learn a lot of things as needed from the Web, these days, although of course the Web isn’t available in Penric’s world!
But I sympathize with Cinar the cavalry captain, who wants to learn only those things that will really be useful to him.
I thoroughly enjoyed this novella. The varying perspectives of the demon and Cin added depth to the ongoing Penric sagas. I did figure out very quickly why Cin was introduced into the story early on and the “marriage” of Cin and Spirit was neatly done. Their mutual learning curve was interesting. And I loved how Iroki crossed paths with Cin and attached himself.
It's such a pleasure to read a story that doesn't have a villain -- there are so many types of conflict worth exploring that can't be reduced to simple good-guy vs bad-guy summaries.
Anyway, thank you for another wonderful story.
I'm always delighted to see a new Penric and Desdemona story. I loved Iva/Itola/Spirit's POV, but now it makes me curious what other demon's experiences would be like. Would Otta/Atto be practically indistinguishable? Would Ashy be wary of Desdemona since she killed the ox?
Also I guess that besides Desdemona and Iva, we haven't really seen many "mature" demons interact with each other. Hopefully something that could be explored in the future?
Ha! I just realized reading through these comments that Lois twisted the usual Georgette Heyer plot order by having the "marriage" and *then* the elopement.
C.C. wrote: “It’s such a pleasure to read a story that doesn’t have a villain”
You’re right, I hadn’t noticed that. It could be argued that the villain of the story is the Rusylli with the heated spike; but he’s anonymous and off stage, so most people probably wouldn’t count him.
Barbara Norwood wrote: "Ha! I just realized reading through these comments that Lois twisted the usual Georgette Heyer plot order by having the "marriage" and *then* the elopement."
Hmm, Add that to the comment about the lack of villain and it seems like this might be classified as a romance. With the conflict stemming from the perceived obstacles to the union rather than a classic villain. Which got me thinking rather uncomfortably on how the 'female', being the demon, has to remain to a degree subservient to the male host in order to not be destroyed/considered bad/corrupt.
I tried to think if we had any opposite examples, of male imprinted demons hosted by a female, but I don't think there are any. The female sorceresses all tend to have very new demons with only animal imprints or other females. And those are often either off-screen, (such as Desdemona's previous riders) or corrupted (think the example in Paladin of Souls if you have read it). Which, considering the "lesser to greater" direction the demons are always trying to travel begins to paint a subtle hierarchy with the males above the females. Which is not something I usually see in Bujold stories, in fact she usually seems to aim at pointing out the fallacies of such arrangements. And perhaps that happens here, since clearly the female characters are quite strong and I would say as equal as they can be in the society they are existing in.
Indeed a big part of the story lines is the males accepting that the female demons deserve respect and personhood of their own. In the Chalion series we get a strong female leader who marries in a way to create equality rather than hierarchy. So, I would say the examples all push to exemplify the ideal of equality and cooperation in relationships and interactions rather than to try and create an alternate hierarchy with females over males. Which perhaps is a factor in the lack of male imprinted demons hosted by females. Either way it gives me lots of new thoughts and perspectives to think over and a new lens with which to view the stories my next read through. Which makes me glad of these discussion threads.
It didn't occur to me at all that the cart race was a typical Georgette Heyer device! How clever of the other readers to think of that, along with the marriage/elopement analogy.
For me, I just enjoyed the Bastard parsimony/problem solving that the author writes so well. I found it nostalgic as well, couldn't help but compare/contrast with the first Penric novel and experience of a sorcerer and demon being paired supposedly willy nilly. Just a really great story that made me happy.
I’ve just started a re-read of Penric’s Demon. It’s interesting imagining Des adapting to Pen’s body now we’ve seen the process from Iva-Itola-Spirit’s POV. But I also came across this paragraph:
“He wondered if packing for university would have been anything like this. ‘Sorcerer’ had certainly not been on Pen’s former list of scholarly ambitions, but then, neither had ‘theologian,’ ‘divine,’ ‘physician,’ ‘teacher,’ ‘lawyer,’ or any other high trade taught there”
I think he’s now been ‘all of the above’ except ‘lawyer’. :-)
I found it interesting how Cin developed the ability to 'see' from Itola/Ito/Spirit. He was a quick learner. Interesting idea having a new rider develop their former skills while learning the theology aspects to the level needed. I would like to see more of this as well as a male demon in a female host.
I see some advantages and disadvantages to having the average person host a demon. Cin would be a test case as he learns the basics of hosting a demon while learning at the temple and working with temple and maybe town horses. The townspeople could become accustomed to having a person with a demon working with their horses. Over time word would get out about his good work even though some may not like him around their horses. Communities away from the temple may not like having someone host a demon and try to continue their usual work. This could cause problems with the locals due to the concern about the persons unusual behavior.
About 3/4 of the way through first chapter:
"A pair of pierced lattice widows, open to the late morning air, lightened the space and relieved the sickroom smell."
I think it's "...lattice windows..."
Glad to see the return of the mad cap storytelling Lois. It was staple in the Miles adventures.
Kurt wrote: "About 3/4 of the way through first chapter:
"A pair of pierced lattice widows, open to the late morning air, lightened the space and relieved the sickroom smell."
I think it's "...lattice windows...""
to be fair, pierced widows lighten any space
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Apr 25, 2026 10:46AM
Is this the first time we get a demon's point of view rather than its rider's?
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Aw, Lois! Thanks for the link to The Incomparable. We love you over there.
Snow reminded me of Lenny, a local Percheron (17.2 hands, white and extremely placid) who often gets rented to deliver the groom to Indian weddings in New England, since there are very few white elephants around here.There is a Boston Globe article about him that I'll try to excerpt here...
The summer’s busiest wedding vendor? It may be a horse named Lenny.
It’s a big change from an Amish farm for Lenny, who’s blowing up on the South Asian wedding circuit.
By Beth Teitell Globe Staff,Updated July 7, 2022, 6:24 a.m.
You think it’s hard getting a venue or makeup artist this wedding season? Try booking Lenny the horse, a 22-year-old from Rhode Island who’s blown up on the South Asian wedding circuit.
“Lenny needs a Google calendar,” said Julie Kliever, Lenny’s administrative assistant (and co-owner).
If there’s a baraat or a Vidaai within two hours of his barn, at New Deal Horse and Carriage in North Kingstown, Lenny is likely to be there.
It wasn’t long ago that Lenny (or his owners) had no idea about baraat or Vidaai ceremonies. They had never heard of the joyous procession (or baraat) that involves a groom riding something — an elephant, a convertible, a white horse — to meet his bride and her family at her house or the wedding venue. Or the farewell ceremony where the bride and groom depart in a carriage (the Vidaai).
Today, wedding planners ask for Lenny by name, and his website shows him decked out in red and gold, posing amid people wearing turbans and saris. He’s been surrounded by Indian, Pakistani, or Bangladeshi guests chanting “Leh-NEE! Leh-NEE! Leh-NEE!”
But he started life on an Amish farm in Ohio, pulling equipment, and the early requests for his services ran along the lines of, “Do you have a white horse for a groom to ride?”
Lenny came to Rhode Island by way of Connecticut in 2012, when Julie and Jack Kliever needed a horse after the sudden and devastating death of Ted, half of a two-brother Percheron gelding team.
Lenny, also a Percheron gelding, is tall (17.2 hands in horse terms) and gleaming white with kind, dark eyes, and thick white lashes. His vibe is so zen he could be a meditation influencer.
Lenny has his hooves painted gold in preparation for an Indian baraat ceremony.
He’s lovingly described as a “goofball” and a “klutz” by Julie Kliever. His former owner, who was forced to sell him after a change in life circumstances, missed him so much that it was five years before she could look at a picture of him without crying, she e-mailed the Klievers.
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Lenny was brought on to do hayrides, but for a while, he also moonlighted as a police horse, and worked private security gigs. He still does funerals and Santa work, and non-South Asian weddings too.
But with New England venues increasingly hosting large, traditional South Asian weddings, according to Aarati Naidu of Firgun Events, there’s a niche for a horse who can keep his cool amid dancing crowds, drumming, and a boombox blaring everything from Bhangra to Michael Jackson.
Depending on travel time, Lenny earns between $1,000 and $1,500 a gig. Plus mints.
“He’s 100 percent professional,” said Rishi Bawa, the owner of Silk Events, a DJ and lighting firm, who has worked regularly with Lenny.
A Saturday in late June found Lenny at the Fairmont Copley Plaza, or rather outside of it (horses are not yet welcomed into hotels).
Lenny paraded Rishi Wadhera through the streets of Copley as part of his baraat ceremony.
The groom, Rishi Wadhera — a love-struck cardiologist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center — would not arrive until 4:30, but Lenny got to town at 3:30, and like all working Joes trying to make a buck in the big city, immediately encountered a parking problem.
The wedding planner, Nicole Simeral of Boston and Palm Beach, had taped “No Stopping Anytime” signs to three parking meters on the street behind the hotel — ample space for Lenny’s “Air Horse One” truck — but of course, two signs had been ignored.
“I called the police to have the cars towed,” Simeral said in a “this is being handled” tone, her Louis Vuitton bag tucked under her arm as she strode to the middle of the third spot (still empty) in the blazing sun to guard it from scofflaws.
Incredibly, the parking was sorted out — with the discovery of an empty commercial spot around the corner — and Lenny sauntered down his ramp, 1,750 pounds of animal suddenly on a Back Bay sidewalk.
His appearance in the middle of it all — a big construction project, nearby duck boats, the hot afternoon sun — jolted people, if only momentarily, out of their lives.
Three teenage boys dropped their attitude and posed like children in front of him. A man who looked down on his luck asked if he could pat him (yes). A Bostonian smiled.
Rishi Wadhera tossed his turban atop friends during his baraat ceremony in Copley Square.
With the baraat nearing, and Lenny happily snacking on hay from a bag tied to the exterior of his truck, Lenny’s staff — the Klievers and an assistant, Luis Del Rio — began applying his look.
They combed his forelock and tail, clipped flowers into his mane, painted his hooves with hoof oil infused with gold glitter — and gossiped about their star colleague.
“He thinks it’s a party for him,” Julie Kliever said.
“Weddings are perfect for Lenny,” Jack Kliever said. “There’s a lot of entertainment and not much work, and Lenny doesn’t like to work.”
Suddenly it was 4:30, and Trinity Place, a side street just off Copley Plaza, came alive with music and dancing and what can only be described as sheer joy. It felt like a Bollywood movie shoot had broken out where before there had only been the backs of buildings.
The groom was there, and his groomsmen, energetic and glowing in their gold tunics, and a white convertible BMW appeared, with a flower garland on its hood and a sound system on its rear, and a Dholi (a drummer), and the groom’s beautiful dancing mother.
Soon the groom was atop Lenny, and the happy knot of guests slowly made its way up the short street, taking a left onto busy St. James Avenue, to the delight of some drivers and, need it be said, to the annoyance of others.
And then, about 30 minutes after the baraat started, the groom dismounted in front of the hotel, and went to greet the family and friends of his bride, Prakriti Gaba, a cardiology fellow at Brigham and Women’s Hospital. About 200 guests crowded around, while off to the side, Lenny, the consummate professional, waited to hear that his work was done, and then headed back around the corner to his truck.
He was offered but refused hay and water. He stomped a few times. He was called a “noodge” by Julie Kliever.
And then he walked up his ramp into the van, and drove off into Boston traffic. The next weekend Lenny would do it all again, twice.
Connie wrote: "Snow reminded me of Lenny, a local Percheron (17.2 hands, white and extremely placid) who often gets rented to deliver the groom to Indian weddings in New England, since there are very few white el..."Wonderful story! Reminds me of Gregor and Laisa's wedding.
Ta, L.
I suppose it often happens in any long series that the cast of named characters keeps increasing: every story tends to add a few more. Some die and some are left behind in other locations, but many of them are still around. I’m not complaining, but it must become quite a job for the author to keep track of them all. When writing a new story, which of them should be mentioned in it? If not mentioned, why not? Would it be natural for them to be out of sight and out of mind during the story?In real life, I suppose that people left behind in other locations might sometimes happen to visit or send a message; although, true, it often happens that they just fade out. And visits or messages don’t need to be mentioned if they’re not relevant to the current story.
The Lenny article (manual copy-and-paste required because of Goodreads' external link policy):https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/07/07/metro/summers-busiest-wedding-vendor-it-may-be-horse-named-lenny/
Bo wrote: "Is this the first time we get a demon's point of view rather than its rider's?"Yes. I have long wanted to explore that, but Des's 13-part mind is much too complex for me to tackle that way. Spirit-Itola-Iva gave me a more manageable task.
Ta, L.
Jonathan wrote: "I suppose it often happens in any long series that the cast of named characters keeps increasing: every story tends to add a few more. Some die and some are left behind in other locations, but many..."I think you answered your own question, but I have heard complaints about other series where the author spends a lot of time checking in with prior cast members, impeding the flow of the current tale. Or recapping to excess. The constraints of the novella length help me keep that impulse under control.
Every first series story has an unwritten backstory, some of which will prove relevant and much of which will not. The trick (which I learned, like so many things, from my long-time mentor Pat Wrede) is simply to treat the prior tales in a series just like the backstory of a first novel. The (experienced) writer doesn't usually need to recount the character's or the world's biography from birth before starting Scene One. Pat once dubbed that "scaffolding"; useful props for building that need to be taken down and tucked out of the way before the structure is actually put to use.
Ta, L.
Iva reminded me of my mother, who also died quite young of cancer. (nearly half a decade younger than I am now in fact) It endeared me to her and her demon instantly. I enjoyed seeing the demon's perspective, particularly the generation gap between Itola and Iva. It made me think how the impressions of the demon remind me of the memories of those who have past. Their face, their voice, their words, mannerisms, or personality can be called up in the memory. Replayed at will or reimagined, those echoes can be positive or negative and can influence your forward decisions as much or as little as you choose to allow. It was a connection between the story world and the real world I hadn't really made before when reading these stories and I am enjoying exploring this new perspective.
The white horse twist was wonderful. I didn't see it coming and laughed right along with Pen. I had figured he would run into the saint haphazardly at some point, but the details with the white horse and the racing cart and so forth were unexpected and added a lot of enjoyment
I really enjoyed the personalities of the new characters and how distinctive and different they were from previous characters. I liked that Pen is pushing for less formal education for some and recognizing that not everyone is cut out for seminary. It is a very hot topic these days for the young with colleges so expensive. I have many folks in my life who are in their teens and twenties navigating it all and I see the struggles they have, particularly for those who aren't interested in lengthy reading (due to dyslexia in one particular case) or expensive educations. It was nice to see that reflected in this story world and really made me curious as to how it may all play out. I loved how this story particularly seems to open up a lot of potential avenues for future stories and characters beyond just Pen's personal life line.
I Loved this novella. I loved how thought provoking it was on many subjects. I look forward to more read throughs to see what catches my eye next time through.
I have to note, the line about "I wasn't done being Iva" really moved me. I felt it deep in my heart for all the loved ones I have known who didn't seem to have as much time as they should have.
Lois wrote: “I have heard complaints about other series where the author spends a lot of time checking in with prior cast members, impeding the flow of the current tale. Or recapping to excess.”Indeed, it’s not necessary to mention everyone, which would get in the way of the story; and you’re pretty good at managing your characters. I wonder whether you do it by instinct, or whether you consciously check through the full cast list in case there’s anyone whose absence from the story might seem odd.
I continue to be amazed at the different scenarios you create from Pen & Des' story and situation. While it was immediately obvious that Spirit and Cin were going to come together, their courtship felt true, and very touching. And your handling of their POV with what they could see and what they couldn't (and what happened because of it) was also so different from what came before.And finally, I got definite Georgette Heyer vibes from the disastrous cart race. It made me laugh. Thanks for another great addition to the P&D canon.
Sandy wrote: “It made me think how the impressions of the demon remind me of the memories of those who have past … I liked that Pen is pushing for less formal education for some and recognizing that not everyone is cut out for seminary.”Good comments, Sandy. My parents and sister are dead, but I meet them again in dreams sometimes, and I have photos to remind me further.
And I agree that, while lengthy formal education may be useful for some, for most people I think it’s overkill and not really useful. We can learn a lot of things as needed from the Web, these days, although of course the Web isn’t available in Penric’s world!
But I sympathize with Cinar the cavalry captain, who wants to learn only those things that will really be useful to him.
I thoroughly enjoyed this novella. The varying perspectives of the demon and Cin added depth to the ongoing Penric sagas. I did figure out very quickly why Cin was introduced into the story early on and the “marriage” of Cin and Spirit was neatly done. Their mutual learning curve was interesting. And I loved how Iroki crossed paths with Cin and attached himself.
It's such a pleasure to read a story that doesn't have a villain -- there are so many types of conflict worth exploring that can't be reduced to simple good-guy vs bad-guy summaries.Anyway, thank you for another wonderful story.
I'm always delighted to see a new Penric and Desdemona story. I loved Iva/Itola/Spirit's POV, but now it makes me curious what other demon's experiences would be like. Would Otta/Atto be practically indistinguishable? Would Ashy be wary of Desdemona since she killed the ox?Also I guess that besides Desdemona and Iva, we haven't really seen many "mature" demons interact with each other. Hopefully something that could be explored in the future?
Ha! I just realized reading through these comments that Lois twisted the usual Georgette Heyer plot order by having the "marriage" and *then* the elopement.
C.C. wrote: “It’s such a pleasure to read a story that doesn’t have a villain”You’re right, I hadn’t noticed that. It could be argued that the villain of the story is the Rusylli with the heated spike; but he’s anonymous and off stage, so most people probably wouldn’t count him.
Barbara Norwood wrote: "Ha! I just realized reading through these comments that Lois twisted the usual Georgette Heyer plot order by having the "marriage" and *then* the elopement."Hmm, Add that to the comment about the lack of villain and it seems like this might be classified as a romance. With the conflict stemming from the perceived obstacles to the union rather than a classic villain. Which got me thinking rather uncomfortably on how the 'female', being the demon, has to remain to a degree subservient to the male host in order to not be destroyed/considered bad/corrupt.
I tried to think if we had any opposite examples, of male imprinted demons hosted by a female, but I don't think there are any. The female sorceresses all tend to have very new demons with only animal imprints or other females. And those are often either off-screen, (such as Desdemona's previous riders) or corrupted (think the example in Paladin of Souls if you have read it). Which, considering the "lesser to greater" direction the demons are always trying to travel begins to paint a subtle hierarchy with the males above the females. Which is not something I usually see in Bujold stories, in fact she usually seems to aim at pointing out the fallacies of such arrangements. And perhaps that happens here, since clearly the female characters are quite strong and I would say as equal as they can be in the society they are existing in.
Indeed a big part of the story lines is the males accepting that the female demons deserve respect and personhood of their own. In the Chalion series we get a strong female leader who marries in a way to create equality rather than hierarchy. So, I would say the examples all push to exemplify the ideal of equality and cooperation in relationships and interactions rather than to try and create an alternate hierarchy with females over males. Which perhaps is a factor in the lack of male imprinted demons hosted by females. Either way it gives me lots of new thoughts and perspectives to think over and a new lens with which to view the stories my next read through. Which makes me glad of these discussion threads.
It didn't occur to me at all that the cart race was a typical Georgette Heyer device! How clever of the other readers to think of that, along with the marriage/elopement analogy. For me, I just enjoyed the Bastard parsimony/problem solving that the author writes so well. I found it nostalgic as well, couldn't help but compare/contrast with the first Penric novel and experience of a sorcerer and demon being paired supposedly willy nilly. Just a really great story that made me happy.
I’ve just started a re-read of Penric’s Demon. It’s interesting imagining Des adapting to Pen’s body now we’ve seen the process from Iva-Itola-Spirit’s POV. But I also came across this paragraph:“He wondered if packing for university would have been anything like this. ‘Sorcerer’ had certainly not been on Pen’s former list of scholarly ambitions, but then, neither had ‘theologian,’ ‘divine,’ ‘physician,’ ‘teacher,’ ‘lawyer,’ or any other high trade taught there”
I think he’s now been ‘all of the above’ except ‘lawyer’. :-)
I found it interesting how Cin developed the ability to 'see' from Itola/Ito/Spirit. He was a quick learner. Interesting idea having a new rider develop their former skills while learning the theology aspects to the level needed. I would like to see more of this as well as a male demon in a female host.
I see some advantages and disadvantages to having the average person host a demon. Cin would be a test case as he learns the basics of hosting a demon while learning at the temple and working with temple and maybe town horses. The townspeople could become accustomed to having a person with a demon working with their horses. Over time word would get out about his good work even though some may not like him around their horses. Communities away from the temple may not like having someone host a demon and try to continue their usual work. This could cause problems with the locals due to the concern about the persons unusual behavior.
About 3/4 of the way through first chapter:"A pair of pierced lattice widows, open to the late morning air, lightened the space and relieved the sickroom smell."
I think it's "...lattice windows..."
Glad to see the return of the mad cap storytelling Lois. It was staple in the Miles adventures.
Kurt wrote: "About 3/4 of the way through first chapter:"A pair of pierced lattice widows, open to the late morning air, lightened the space and relieved the sickroom smell."
I think it's "...lattice windows...""
to be fair, pierced widows lighten any space
