Mike’s review of Moby-Dick or, The Whale > Likes and Comments

Powerful ending paragraph, particularly this: ”He's evil not because of an idea he possesses but because of an idea that he's allowed to possess him” Succinctly put, and yet it really captures what’s so endlessly fascinating about Ahab—we as readers are intrigued by and relate to him so much because there is that fear in all of us that we too may allow ourselves to be consumed in similar fashion. That’s what’s truly frightening, that we can so easily become our own worst enemies.

Great insight, Mike!

Great review!

Hope I don't nerd the comments up too much here, but I was thinking the other day how this book features in Star Trek and couldn't quite reconcile how it's both quoted by Khan and also Picard's favorite novel. Ahab sure doesn't seem like a character Picard would emulate, though they share the same title.

Tara wrote: "Powerful ending paragraph, particularly this: ”He's evil not because of an idea he possesses but because of an idea that he's allowed to possess him” Succinctly put, and yet it really captures what..."

Thanks, Tara. Glad to see you're a fan of this book, as well. I was also thinking of Dostoevsky's novel Demons, and how the "demons" are not really the characters but the ideas they become possessed by. Maybe some of our most consequential convictions are not things we're consciously aware of believing- "I believe x, y and z"- but so deeply ingrained and seemingly natural, put into practice by us every day, that it's very hard to even register them as convictions that may or may not be correct.

And if a whale or other sea creature ever took my leg, I think I'd become about 10x worse than Ahab.

Tom wrote: "Great review!

Hope I don't nerd the comments up too much here, but I was thinking the other day how this book features in Star Trek and couldn't quite reconcile how it's both quoted by Khan and al..."

At the risk of out-nerding you here, Tom, I'm going to remind you that there's a scene in the First Contact movie where a woman accuses Picard of acting like Ahab in his single-minded obsession with getting revenge on the Borg. Picard doesn't take it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3RNs...

Maybe we can assume that Picard certainly wouldn't want to be an Ahab, but can see aspects of Ahab within himself in his darkest moments. Whereas Khan, launching his final assault on the Enterprise at the climax of The Wrath of Khan (I did warn that I was going to out-nerd you), finally gives himself completely over to his dark side, his Ahab side.

This has also reminded me of a scene from The X-Files, where Scully explains to Mulder why he's like Ahab:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOro9...

Mike wrote: "there's a scene in the First Contact movie where a woman accuses Picard of acting like Ahab in his single-minded obsession with getting revenge on the Borg. Picard doesn't take it well

Exactly - I guess where this falls in a general timeline of Picard's life is the key to my worry. Cuz I think I remember more than a few throw-away lines to how much Picard loves Moby-Dick in the TNG series proper. If he's claiming that after the Borg assimilation of First Contact, then I'd see it as a sweet and uplifting choice - he's lived as Ahab and come back from that madness. If he's saying that before First Contact, it wouldn't make any sense to me other than just as a general "I enjoy it as a classic seafaring adventure story, for I am a Space Navy man." Did TNG's writers just find it fun to connect Patrick Stewart's performance as Ahab (or wait, had that even happened yet?)

Good question. Okay, so Google tells me that Patrick Stewart played Ahab in '98, and that the original run of TNG ended in '94. So the TNG writers couldn't have known.

I don't remember Picard talking in the series about Moby-Dick specifically, but I take your word for it, and I find it very much in character, to be honest- both Picard's character, and the franchise's broader portrayal of the kind of man a Starfleet captain was supposed to be. I don't remember Kirk reading all that often, but I'm pretty sure he quoted classical literature and philosophy from time to time. And there were lots of episodes that made reference to the ancient Greeks, the Romans, Shakespeare...I think there was this idea from the very beginning that the captain of a starship was both a warrior and a scholar. And so I can imagine Picard thinking about it in the way you suggest- "I enjoy it as a classic seafaring adventure story, for I am a Space Navy man." I like that.

There's also the possibility that, as the captain of a ship and not without his own personal demons, he could have interpreted the story of Ahab as a powerful cautionary tale even before his encounter with the Borg.

In that scene from First Contact as well, there's that moment, after the woman says "Ahab has to go hunt his whale", when Picard just gets very quiet. You can tell that the reference really means something to him, and that she's touched a nerve.

You going to watch the new series, by the way?

Mike wrote: "You going to watch the new series, by the way?"

I feel I have to, historically speaking. Sunk time fallacy be damned, I spent hours with that series and have a lot of the lore stuck in my memory. TNG was my dad's favorite show in the 90s and so it holds special nostalgia for me. But the last time I watched it straight through is over a decade ago and the details are getting fuzzy. Holodeck literary side plots make this kind of thing even tougher to pin down.

But it would be satisfying if it's a kind of "I always thought I was an Ishmael but now I see I'm an Ahab" self-realization.

Anyhoo, I've always preferred Picard to Kirk - the gentleman scholar diplomat over the brash man's man of action - and likewise prefer TNG to the original series. The philosphy was better fleshed out and the series strikes a beautiful balance between silly melodrama and very weighty thought experiment.

Tom wrote: "Mike wrote: "You going to watch the new series, by the way?"

I feel I have to, historically speaking. Sunk time fallacy be damned, I spent hours with that series and have a lot of the lore stuck i..."

I'll watch it also...or I'll give it a try, anyway. If it's Patrick Stewart, I'm on board. You didn't catch his turn as a neo-nazi club owner in Green Room by any chance?

The original series is my favorite, but perhaps for similar reasons you prefer TNG- I watched it with my parents when I was a kid, I know many of the episodes well. It was very inconsistent. There are a few episodes that I think are genuinely great, and there are a number (mostly in the third season) that are barely watchable.

I've seen most of TNG, and I like it (DS9 as well), but I've never watched it all the way through.

Kirk can be a bit much at times, but I think that Spock and McCoy balance him (and each other) out. In fact, the interactions between Spock and McCoy might be the decisive factor for me.

Excellent review. Indicates how timeless the story is, as long as human beings are around.

Love the Star Trek references. I''m old enough to have sat in front of the TV to watch "The Man Trap" when it first aired. My nerd neighbor across the street alerted me to it's debut. I was hooked. Kirk (Shatner) could be tiresome, however. He was jealous of the popularity of Spock, so insisted the scriptwriters make Kirk the mastermind, without consulting Spock. How stupid is that?

My favorite was NextGen all the way. Picard a huge improvement over Kirk.

Michael wrote: "Excellent review. Indicates how timeless the story is, as long as human beings are around.

Love the Star Trek references. I''m old enough to have sat in front of the TV to watch "The Man Trap" wh..."

Thanks, Michael.

I wasn't around in the 60s, but when I was younger, one of the TV stations did a Star Trek TOS marathon every Fourth of July, and viewers would vote for the top 25 episodes. And I just remember sitting around and watching episode after episode, so maybe there's an element of nostalgia in my recollections of the show. 'The Trouble with the Tribbles' always won the viewers' poll, which is another story.

Then again, I revisited TOS a few years ago, and honestly I'm still partial to it. Some of the episodes are clunkers, especially in the third season, but the first two have a lot of solid episodes. And I've heard that Shatner was a ham at times, but I love the interplay among Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

I guess I like Kirk's maverick style, for the most part. He goes too far sometimes, but Spock is usually there to rein him in. And then just as often as not, they stand on the bridge at the end of the episode and talk about the adventure, which is a convention I'm sorry hasn't survived into the modern era.

I came to TNG later on, but I've grown to appreciate it. Patrick Stewart is still a great actor. He played against type a few years ago as a sort of neo-nazi elder statesman in a pretty good thriller called Green Room. Boy was he frightening in that role.

I loved those humorous endings you allude to.

As you know, Star Trek was only on for three years, but found its real audience in syndication. It sometimes ran an episode every week night before NextGen ever came along. We watched those old episode, over and over.

One of my best friends for years now is a Trekkie. Not long after we met, she loaned me this book. Ostensibly about Shatner, the author did a great job expanding it into the story of the entire show. From his interviews of all the actors and others involved, the author found out that no one liked Shatner. Shatner was shocked, shocked, but that kind of unawareness is characteristic of narcissists.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...

Michael wrote: "I loved those humorous endings you allude to.

As you know, Star Trek was only on for three years, but found its real audience in syndication. It sometimes ran an episode every week night before N..."

Thanks for the link. Maybe at some point I'll track that book down. I've heard that a lot of people were unhappy with Shatner, but I also have the impression that he was on decent terms with Nimoy, before Nimoy died. Nimoy had his own demons, apparently.

Have you listened to any of Shatner's music?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P53Fo...

This is a pretty funny bridge ending, beginning around the 2:00 mark. "No tribble at all..."

Shatner at his finest. ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAvRB...

Koch Bros. I had forgotten about those guys. And now they're back in my brain. Like political herpes.