Cassie’s review of Kingdom of Ash (Throne of Glass, #7) > Likes and Comments
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"Don't get me started on how [Manon] wound up basically begging Dorian to not go to Morath alone. On her knees before him, offering him marriage if it meant him staying." HI WOW I AM THROWING UP?????? Okay, now we can add the REAL talent SJMess has: She's such a terrible writer that she makes me hate my previously favorite characters, and she honestly thinks she's making me love them more. Naw, bitch. Since everybody needs a gotdamn title around here, you are Literary Death, the Destroyer of Worlds and Characters.
Y'all. I said it beats ago with Melody, but it all boils down to Maas being so afraid of her own characters and their potential that she would rather spay them all than allow them to be reprehensible in any way shape or form. And most of the time when she does this, she turns them all into grotesque, flat versions of what they were, so I don't know why she feigns as though she has an issue with problematic characters. 🤷♀️
I want that google doc *_* To read it would certainly be more fun than reading the actual book, and I still sort of want to know how the plot went down... but without directly witnessing what has become of Manon, Chaol, Dorian and Celaena (aka the less anoying and more human version of Aelin).
Delicious review. Thanks for suffering for us. (decimate =/= destroyed ; gah!)
Valentina wrote: "I want that google doc *_* To read it would certainly be more fun than reading the actual book, and I still sort of want to know how the plot went down... but without directly witnessing what has become of Manon, Chaol, Dorian and Celaena (aka the less anoying and more human version of Aelin).
Trust me, you didn't miss anything good. The plot itself is a hot mess, and it kills me that I didn't have enough room to cover it. It was boring and uninspired and ripped off LotR.
Audrey wrote: "Delicious review. Thanks for suffering for us. (decimate =/= destroyed ; gah!)"
I did it so the general public wouldn't have to.
Also, thank you for understanding my pain with "decimate"! It is a giant pet peeve of mine.
Court wrote: "I felt everything you did down to my bones.
I quickly want to point out that we read through all of this torture to get to a climax where Irene kills Aerowan? (Excuse me if I'm spelling boring villians name wrong as I audio booked this catastrophe.
Beyond that , we literally spend about 40 chapters of Aelin being tortured, and another 50 for her to actually arrive to this war through some trees, wtf?
So disappointed. "
Oh, trust me, that was a whole other can of worms I didn't get to open because I ran out of room in my review. The final "climactic" battle was so incredibly underwhelming. That's what happens when you raise your stakes and don't know what to do with them: you lose sight of what needs to be done in order to bring your series to a proper conclusion.
You are right about Lorcan being Rowan's copy.
Now I don't even like him
I gave KOA 3 stars out of guilt because I still feel dedicated to the world and the characters but like.... not this version of them?? Idk I agree with everything you said. Can we also talk about the use of the phrase “____ incarnate” I hated it so much.
This is everything I've ever dreamt about and more! I would give everything to read that 3 page long google doc of yours! I couldn't even make it through Empire of Storms but my god Kingdom of Ass is a whole new level of bullshit
Wow. Well no one punished you to read the book and the entire series if you don't like them that much. Geez...
Magi wrote: "Wow. Well no one punished you to read the book and the entire series if you don't like them that much. Geez..."
I actually think you bring up a great point which we should explore.
What you're saying here is that because the book was perceived poorly, it should have just never been consumed. Barring a misunderstanding of what masochism might be (because let me tell you, that's its own hurdle), let's focus on the actual value that negative reviews provide.
Goodreads is a place to explore books. It is not a circle-jerk for people to *only* talk about the books they enjoy. If that's how you prefer to use the platform, that's on you. But your disrespect and begrudgment of others who would rather choose to spend time actually analyzing work - surface-level or otherwise - to add to the discourse of what structurally makes for a sound story, only further proves that you never fully understood what it meant to absorb literature and understand it on a fundamental level.
Which is *fine*. Perhaps you're the casual reader; I refuse to take that away from someone. But someone else who looks at this critically isn't to be discouraged because you prefer to look at everything through rose-colored lenses.
If Goodreads was intended to be a place of just sunshine and rainbows, there would be no reviewing system - no place to provide star ratings and lines about what you found valued or devalued the work. In art, there are negative and positive reviews. And to stay true to the premise of this site and community, there are negative and positive reviews here.
Goodreads is meant for the casual reader as well as the analytical mind. This is why an entire library of books you've heard of and haven't heard of exist on this platform - archives from comics to classic literature found in academia curriculae.
If you are to tell me you've never passed up on a book due to low ratings here, you'd likely be fooling yourself.
While ratings can be highly subjective, you proved in your response that you didn't read this review. What likely happened was you saw a 1-star followed by a longform review and said, "Oh man, they must really HATE this." And because you likely love this series or Sarah J. Maas, you found it within yourself to play to some fallacy wherein because the review is negative it was a waste of time on *their* part for still exploring this work. Perhaps, however, this work is fundamentally and poorly written for a multitude of reasons. Does it still serve a purpose to the casual reader in terms of something indulgent that *someone* out there can bite into and enjoy? Perhaps. I don't see it, but it must be there, because Maas' fans are vast. (And this is coming from someone who still very much enjoys the one and only book I like from anything she's ever written.)
Instead, if you were to look further into the review, perhaps even actually read it, you'd find this reviewer has taken their time to actually dissect what makes the review plausible and even valuable to someone who wants to actually explore these books. Because - again - with a reviewing system unfortunately you do get the people who are more often inclined to review something positively and never give anything valuable dissection. The result there is some readers unwittingly walk into something they didn't sign up for. Instead, this reviewer has taken their time to strip down why this series, and this particular title, make for faulty constructs of what we might consider a story.
A story can be linear, nonlinear, can come in many voices, and it can bend our ideas of time. But with Maas it's hardly ever that deep, and for what was supposed to be a linear narrative following the story of these charaters, instead we have witnessed what happens when the story has no perceived end by its author - or a publisher/editor who should likely be more hands-on with the work.
Not only does this reviewer extrapolate lines and analyze why they make for character abominations, she also explores the vocabulary, tone, behaviors, settings, plot lines and overall "problematic" ideals that were likely not explored heavily enough by the author before she put pen-to-paper. An author's responsibility is a heavy one, and the further I've dove into Maas' work myself, the further I've found I don't believe she takes that responsibility seriously. Not only are her stories riddled with inconsistencies from characters to concepts, but she introduces hard topics that never actually explore the problems behind them, leaving readers to believe that she prefers the abuse or behaviors she's representing in these books. And considering these are supposed to be YA, or something of the like, that type of writing can be detrimental in how readers perceive themselves in the stories or actually come to understand the world around them.
So no, it's important even the ones who hate the books continue them - fight through and criticially analyze them. Because for everything that is said *here*, there's so much of it not said in the people who post with 4 and 5 star reviews.
And I'll let you in on a little secret: Maas fans will often give something 4 or 5 star reviews before it's even released, and Goodreads does nothing to combat this. So the inflation you're seeing here is just part of a faulty market of ratings. Because at best, her series should receive possibly 3, if everyone were being honest.
I see what you mean Jennifer. And I do not deny there are problematic aspects about the series(and not just in this specific series from Sarah, but in the other one too) . They grabed my mind almost immediately and I could not close my eyes for tnem, even though I am a fan of the series.
You see, my problem here was that I just didn't saw the point of reading( and probably buying) series that you dislike. I, personally, never continue a book or series if I didn't liked something major about them. For me it's just a waste of time, energy and money(if you bought the certain book, of course).
I admit my rashness. Before reading this review I read some other ones which weren't very specific and didn't had a good point. So when I got to this one I was already pissed off enough and read it sketcily. I fully understand that this is not an excuse and that I behaved foolishly. I am sorry for my rashness. I will try to be more responsible with my actions in the future.
P. S. English is not my first language so I am sorry if there are any grammar or other mistakes and if this is poorly written.
Magi wrote: "I see what you mean Jennifer. And I do not deny there are problematic aspects about the series(and not just in this specific series from Sarah, but in the other one too) . They grabed my mind almos..."
Hey, and I hope I didn't come off too harshly, though I am sure I did. I just hate to see when people disagree with a review, they treat the one who penned it as though it's their problem.
Reviews take time, and ones like these are thoughtfully done. If we can't have an open discourse about what's good and bad about a book, then we're discrediting ourselves and the authors.
It's a really common thing on Maas' books on Goodreads for people to come for anyone who writes something negative about her books, because she's so beloved. And while I can definitely get fandom, I get tired of people constantly coming for people who don't agree with them.
I'm actually really happy that you found something you loved in this series. That's what books are meant for! If you loved it, then Maas did something right, you know? :)
I agree with you that there should be freedom of the speach. Not everyone can like can like the same things as everyone. Life just wouldn't be that interesting in that way.
I understand why you decided to respond to me. Again, I acted rashly.
In the end I am happy that you're trying to see the bouth sides of coin, because that is an important thing in one community.
Ok but will no one (NO ONE?!) point out the absolutely glaring stupidity of the main plot line and the whole reason for Aelin’s main source of angst?!?! And how stupidly she dealt with that? And how idiotic she acted in the end? What was the point of her fucking forging the damned bloody lock (yes I am that angry), if she was willing to trade Erawan’s soul for stupid Elena who got everyone in that stupid mess to begin with, and who had lived a full life?
She was willing, in the end, to sacrifice herself, for Elena. Not her kingdom. For fucking Elena. She was willing to make her friends and her army fight Erawan on their own, without her or her magic- just so that a soul could spend an eternity with some other souls?! Why. Just why. And don’t tell me for those 10 stupid years of life she bought her. It was the least she could do. Because had Elena not fucked up, Aelin’s parents wouldn’t have been murdered and she wouldn’t have had to flee and therefore she would not have sunk int that river to begin with. Therefore no need for Elena to save her. Wth Aelin.
Also, if those gods are so freaking powerful, why did they wait so long for Aelin and Dorian to come along? If they wanted to go home so badly, why not endow some earlier village idiot with all their powers, brainwash that unfortunate person into an obedient sentinel, and have them retrieve the key thingies, before Erawan was even awakened. Or at least, just pour a stupid amount of power into Aelin from the get go and tell her: yo, don’t worry, we’re giving you a boost so you don’t die or anything, just get us home. And for that matter, if Aelin’s powers came from Mala to begin with, why couldn’t the gods just damn well make bodies for themselves and open the gate so they could yeet themselves back home without having to rely on anyone else.
And honestly, if Aelin knew they could defeat Erawan without the gods, why not just forget about the gods altogether and get on with it- with all that fire magic she possessed?
Finally, for someone who claims to love her kingdom to the point that she would die for it, she sure takes her sweet ass time getting there to save it, not even once worrying about Aedion and how he might be managing on his own. And in the end, she does not sacrifice herself for her kingdom. She forged that lock knowing she would probably die, to appease the gods enough to ask them to spare Elena’s soul. Because clearly, her kingdom could very well survive without her or her powers, as it had done all along.
It’s these holes and inconsistencies that drove me mad. That and the systematic butchering of her characters, the incessant sex mentions (it’s fun when you have chemistry and it’s a build-up, but after a while it just got boring and repetitive), not to mention the gratuitous amounts of torturing plopped on just Aelin- torture which should have changed her much more than the endless pages of inner toil and conflict and self pitying indicated.
I am so angry.
Because I liked this series of trash fantasy at the beginning. I didn’t expect an educated epic, or Tolkien level of world-building and originality. But even that cheap, cheat meal equivalent of a read turned into... plain shitty, sloppy, lazy fanfiction.
Irina wrote: "Ok but will no one (NO ONE?!) point out the absolutely glaring stupidity of the main plot line and the whole reason for Aelin’s main source of angst?!?! And how stupidly she dealt with that? And ho..."
I love this rant. I am so glad I quit Maas after one book.
completely agree with all the said points. After reading the half of the book, I knew exactly how it was gonna end and I just read through to finish it!
Word of advice: don’t put urself through reading a series you don’t like! Read stuff you enjoy! Rather than “suffer” through an 8 book series you hate
Camilla wrote: "Word of advice: don’t put urself through reading a series you don’t like! Read stuff you enjoy! Rather than “suffer” through an 8 book series you hate"
Word of advice: people can "put themselves through" and validly critique a series you love without needing your permission or blessing to do so. Also, hate-reading can be a good time. Sorry you had to find out this way.
Camilla wrote: "Word of advice: don’t put urself through reading a series you don’t like! Read stuff you enjoy! Rather than “suffer” through an 8 book series you hate"
It's important to have reviews that cover all the bases, not just people who adore it despite its faults! Besides, if you looked at my history in reading these books, you'd see that I started out enjoying them, but as the books went on, I saw the flaws in the characters and their characterizations, as well as the absolute ridiculousness of the plot.
Not to mention how a lot of the characters are basically just copy/pasted throughout all of Maas' works, which I can say for certain because I started out reading ACoTaR, but wound up hating where those books went, too :)
Goodreads is a review site! Not a fandom site! So critiques should be welcome, not just blanket praise.
I know your review is old but I laughed so much while reading it, because even though I’ve only just finished ‘Heir of Fire’, I can connect to some of your points. I don’t think I’ll keep reading this series, I was bored out of my mind with ‘Heir of Fire’ and it looks like it won’t get any better.
I actually agree with a lot of your points but I’m silly and willingly look over some of those things that bothered me. I’ve definitely read better writing but I still enjoyed them.
I do think it’s interesting you brought the Rhysand scene up considering SJM wrote this series before the ACOTAR series.
I do let a lot of the writing mistakes slide because she was so young. I also found myself wondering where her editors are and wanting to give her a thesaurus. (It’s the constant padding everywhere that drove me the most crazy.)
While these reasons were dealbreakers for you, they weren’t for me and that’s absolutely fine.
Tiffany wrote: "I actually agree with a lot of your points but I’m silly and willingly look over some of those things that bothered me. I’ve definitely read better writing but I still enjoyed them.
I do think it..."
I'm not sure why Goodreads is only just showing me this comment now, seeing as it's from back in July. This is a functional website.
I have to respectfully disagree about letting the writing mistakes slide because she was "so young," seeing as a) she wasn't all that young and b) that is what editors are supposed to be for. Supposedly, her work has become so popular, that she doesn't even have an editor anymore, because the publishing house just assumes that whatever she puts out there will sell, no matter its quality (and I have to agree, considering the fact that you yourself said that none of the above issues affected your enjoyment at all)
And that's fine! I'm glad that you can enjoy this series and her other work, but unfortunately after going through two whole series of hers, all I can see is terribly lazy and bad writing :)
I will say I'm not sure what you mean by it's "interesting" for me to bring up the Rhysand scene "considering SJM wrote this series before the ACOTAR series"? Because I am aware of this. My anger stems from the fact that a) I despise Rhysand and b) she is so ridiculously in love with her own character that she is incapable of not shoving him into my face, despite this being a completely separate series.
Chloe wrote: "U call SJM an idiot yet u wasted hours, days, reading 1,080,505 words you hated. Food for thought."
I started out liking her work. Read ACOTAR first. Picked up ToG second. Moved my way through both series only to realize that both devolved into a terrible amalgamation of the same types of characters and plots and bad writing. I decided to keep reading specifically so I could have an educated opinion of the books and give a well-thought out analysis of the series in the end, from someone who truly started out enjoying her stuff, in order to give people more than just blind adoration to read so they can decide if the series is worth picking up in the end.
Food for thought.
Hi, i want to apologise for commenting on ur post and being rude. Hw and what u read as well as what you say and how u say it is your decision, and I shouldn’t have judged you or been rude, for that I am sorry. I may disagree with ur analysis, but your opinion is your own. I hope u find a good book that u like next time :)
The phrase that irked me: “a particularly vulgar gesture”. How many times is this used in the series? I enjoyed the books for what they were and they work for a young adult soft fantasy series. But the repetitiveness of some of the phrases that you mentioned as well as the “gesture” phrase always elicited an internal eye roll.
Randi wrote: "The phrase that irked me: “a particularly vulgar gesture”. How many times is this used in the series? I enjoyed the books for what they were and they work for a young adult soft fantasy series. But..."
The phrase "vulgar gesture" now gives me indigestion when read in other works due to its repetitive use here :)
I would argue against it being YA fantasy due to how graphic the sex scenes became as the series went on, but I am in the minority with that these days it seems.
I thought I was the only person who hated this book, I really enjoyed the series for the most part up until this book. I feel like I washed my time & if I had known how it ended I wouldn’t have bothered. I skimmed the last 400 pages because why the hell do we need that much detail about a battle! It was damn near the whole book! I just about screamed when she lost her freaking powers & that well what a waste she didn’t even “save the world” like wtffff. I was so angry. I enjoyed the other characters more than I did her & Rowen. My goodness every time I think about this book I think of what a huge let down the series is. Smh. Thank you for your review!!!
Ayana wrote: "I thought I was the only person who hated this book, I really enjoyed the series for the most part up until this book. I feel like I washed my time & if I had known how it ended I wouldn’t have bot..."
You are far from the only person to hate this book, but we are definitely the silent minority :)
I admittedly only really enjoyed the first book and a half, if I'm being honest, but I pushed on in the hope that it got better. And then when it didn't, I simply wished to see it to its end so I had a complete picture to form an opinion. And boy did I form an opinion.
I am normally completely for detailed battles, but Maas is objectively bad at writing a compelling battle or fight scene. This is partially because she isn't particularly good at describing them and absolutely does not know how to properly write a battle and the tactics needed to win one, but it's mostly because of the stakes she sets. The stakes in her books (but especially this series) are set cartoonishly high where the villain becomes a mustache twirling baddie that poses no real threat, and so you in turn do not care what happens to the characters—because you know they'll come out the other side okay! It's hard to be invested in a long battle when you know how it will end.
But I digress. I'm glad you liked my review :) And that it still occasionally pops up on people's radars to like and comment on, even after all of these years.
Thank you for this review. I just finished the series and have to say that although not everything was for me, I really liked it. I read a lot just to to get out of my mind and for me, these books really did the job I would even read them again.
On the other hand after I finish a book I really liked but also have some trouble with author's choices I like to open Goodreads and look for reviews on what people didn't like about them. It helps me to further analyze critically aside from my emotions and I think this review was just what I was needing and looking for, even if I do or don't agree with some of the points you made (although the use of vocabulary, even if English is not my first language, did really piss me off haha).
Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Judy wrote: "Thank you for this review. I just finished the series and have to say that although not everything was for me, I really liked it. I read a lot just to to get out of my mind and for me, these books ..."
I'm glad you were able to enjoy this series! And even find some use in my thoughts despite disagreeing with them :) <3
I am halfway through this book. And I'm so over it. It's too much? Maybe just dumb? Too many ppl doing silly things? This series is about 4 books too long. I give this one a vulgar gesture.
Liz Mackey wrote: "I am halfway through this book. And I'm so over it. It's too much? Maybe just dumb? Too many ppl doing silly things? This series is about 4 books too long. I give this one a vulgar gesture."
I daresay this book isn't even worth one vulgar gesture. Save the energy!
Ironically, I am pretty sure I heard somewhere that the series was originally just up until Queen of Shadows (the fourth book, I think?), and based on where that ended (the king killed, and the introduction of Bigger Bads from there on out) it makes sense. I'm also pretty sure that the series' initial iteration on Fiction dot net originally ended around there, too.
So the series being about four books too long, as you said, isn't even entirely off the mark in reality also lmao
I am SO GLAD you mentioned the insane amount of completely unnecessary POV's I DONT GIVE A (censored) ABOUT anyone anymore, it takes so much away from the main plot when you just keep shoving more and more characters into the story. One more thing, WHY DID SHE SET UP A HUGGGGEEE BIG SACRIFICE JUST FOR EVERYONE TO LIVE? It would have added so much more to the book if Dorian or elian (forgive me for my spelling mistakes) would have just died. I was very thoroughly disappointed and I had to force myself to finish this book.
✨ Complaining about trash because I'm trash ✨ wrote: "I am SO GLAD you mentioned the insane amount of completely unnecessary POV's I DONT GIVE A (censored) ABOUT anyone anymore, it takes so much away from the main plot when you just keep shoving more ..."
You are among the strongest of us. I am proud of you for finishing it, but by god at what cost, am I right?
The unnecessarily high stakes really did a lot to make the plot feel so cheap and flimsy when absolutely no one of import died. As I said in my review, I was never worried for any of the characters. I knew she'd never kill any of them! So it was a snooze fest, no matter how much she told me that the Big Bads were soooo evil and soooo powerful.
I’m so obsessed with this review. Spot on 😂
Lauren wrote: "I’m so obsessed with this review. Spot on 😂"
You are too kind! I'm so glad this review still entertains even all these years later~
Mary Rose wrote: "This review is a masterpiece."
You're too kind! Thank you <3
Great review.
Only thing I'd challenge you on is... "I started out liking this series and Maas' writing"... Seriously?
We get told that SS is the greatest assassin in the world at 18.
Even though she's never learned of wyrdmarks in a world that magic exists.
Or finds out that someone is murdering competitors of the competition and each time they kill someone they take some of their power... and can't see that her major competitor grows in power and literal size each time after a death?
Or that she then blames the princess who's her friend instead?
Then when the princess saves her life... refuses to talk to her about wyrdmarks even though the princess could have helped her?
She's the greatest assassin but couldn't just assassinate the king who she has direct access to who has a son/crown prince who's actually a great human being? And she has access to the captain of the guard and all of the guards movements? WTF?
Or even when she's in a battle in a ring... and if you get kicked out of the ring you lose, then she gets her face smashed into a clock tower wall in the fight?
Or that we know she refuses to kill characters when she just let nox slip away from the competition one before the final duels and just like that... we move on and he doesn't appear till the last book for no real reason.
TOG book 1 was a dumpster fire... I struggled through a lot of it with the promise the series gets better.
Got to Empire of Storms, tried the Assassin's blade and had to DNF the series. I had enough.
nwil wrote: "Great review.
Only thing I'd challenge you on is... "I started out liking this series and Maas' writing"... Seriously?
We get told that SS is the greatest assassin in the world at 18.
Even though..."
I mean. You can challenge me as much as you like, but it won't change my answer lmao
I liked the first book well enough at the time—not as much as I loved the first ACoTaR (and yes, I did genuinely love the first book, hated everything after)—but I found it entertaining enough. ToG shit the bed halfway through Book 2 for me, but I kept reading in the hopes it would get better, because, at the time, I still foolishly had faith in Maas as an author.
But, alas, I was wrong, and by the time I started reading the fourth book, I was purely reading for completionist's sake and because I could then say from an educated point of view that these books are terrible. Because I read all of them from cover to cover, and no one could claim I didn't give them a chance.
Yes, looking back I can see that ToG in its entirety is not good, but my reviews are about honesty, and I wanted everyone to know that these criticisms are coming from someone who had started out as an earnest fan of Maas and her books, but came to realize that none of her writing is particularly original or well-thought out. Especially since both of her series are basically copies of each other with the same types of characters and the same tropes and the same issues with the writing itself.
No idea why you are so antagonistic here, considering we both agree that this series is terrible. But whatever, I suppose. To each his own!
You said everything I thought by I’m not articulate enough to write. Can’t wait to read your own books when they are published. Something tells me they won’t be Disney versions. Thank God.
petaLee wrote: "You said everything I thought by I’m not articulate enough to write. Can’t wait to read your own books when they are published. Something tells me they won’t be Disney versions. Thank God."
You are very sweet <3 Thank you for your kind words!
Thank you so much for saying everything I wanted to say! I am glad to be done with this series.
Faith wrote: "Thank you so much for saying everything I wanted to say! I am glad to be done with this series."
I'm glad that you found a kindred spirit in my silly little words! I will forever be grateful to be done with this series and also everything Maas related <3
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message 1:
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Melody
(new)
Nov 11, 2018 06:01PM
"Don't get me started on how [Manon] wound up basically begging Dorian to not go to Morath alone. On her knees before him, offering him marriage if it meant him staying." HI WOW I AM THROWING UP?????? Okay, now we can add the REAL talent SJMess has: She's such a terrible writer that she makes me hate my previously favorite characters, and she honestly thinks she's making me love them more. Naw, bitch. Since everybody needs a gotdamn title around here, you are Literary Death, the Destroyer of Worlds and Characters.
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Y'all. I said it beats ago with Melody, but it all boils down to Maas being so afraid of her own characters and their potential that she would rather spay them all than allow them to be reprehensible in any way shape or form. And most of the time when she does this, she turns them all into grotesque, flat versions of what they were, so I don't know why she feigns as though she has an issue with problematic characters. 🤷♀️
I want that google doc *_* To read it would certainly be more fun than reading the actual book, and I still sort of want to know how the plot went down... but without directly witnessing what has become of Manon, Chaol, Dorian and Celaena (aka the less anoying and more human version of Aelin).
Delicious review. Thanks for suffering for us. (decimate =/= destroyed ; gah!)
Valentina wrote: "I want that google doc *_* To read it would certainly be more fun than reading the actual book, and I still sort of want to know how the plot went down... but without directly witnessing what has become of Manon, Chaol, Dorian and Celaena (aka the less anoying and more human version of Aelin). Trust me, you didn't miss anything good. The plot itself is a hot mess, and it kills me that I didn't have enough room to cover it. It was boring and uninspired and ripped off LotR.
Audrey wrote: "Delicious review. Thanks for suffering for us. (decimate =/= destroyed ; gah!)"I did it so the general public wouldn't have to.
Also, thank you for understanding my pain with "decimate"! It is a giant pet peeve of mine.
I felt everything you did down to my bones.
I quickly want to point out that we read through all of this torture to get to a climax where Irene kills Aerowan? (Excuse me if I'm spelling boring villians name wrong as I audio booked this catastrophe.
Beyond that , we literally spend about 40 chapters of Aelin being tortured, and another 50 for her to actually arrive to this war through some trees, wtf?
So disappointed.
I quickly want to point out that we read through all of this torture to get to a climax where Irene kills Aerowan? (Excuse me if I'm spelling boring villians name wrong as I audio booked this catastrophe.
Beyond that , we literally spend about 40 chapters of Aelin being tortured, and another 50 for her to actually arrive to this war through some trees, wtf?
So disappointed.
Court wrote: "I felt everything you did down to my bones. I quickly want to point out that we read through all of this torture to get to a climax where Irene kills Aerowan? (Excuse me if I'm spelling boring villians name wrong as I audio booked this catastrophe.
Beyond that , we literally spend about 40 chapters of Aelin being tortured, and another 50 for her to actually arrive to this war through some trees, wtf?
So disappointed. "
Oh, trust me, that was a whole other can of worms I didn't get to open because I ran out of room in my review. The final "climactic" battle was so incredibly underwhelming. That's what happens when you raise your stakes and don't know what to do with them: you lose sight of what needs to be done in order to bring your series to a proper conclusion.
You are right about Lorcan being Rowan's copy.Now I don't even like him
I gave KOA 3 stars out of guilt because I still feel dedicated to the world and the characters but like.... not this version of them?? Idk I agree with everything you said. Can we also talk about the use of the phrase “____ incarnate” I hated it so much.
This is everything I've ever dreamt about and more! I would give everything to read that 3 page long google doc of yours! I couldn't even make it through Empire of Storms but my god Kingdom of Ass is a whole new level of bullshit
Wow. Well no one punished you to read the book and the entire series if you don't like them that much. Geez...
Magi wrote: "Wow. Well no one punished you to read the book and the entire series if you don't like them that much. Geez..."I actually think you bring up a great point which we should explore.
What you're saying here is that because the book was perceived poorly, it should have just never been consumed. Barring a misunderstanding of what masochism might be (because let me tell you, that's its own hurdle), let's focus on the actual value that negative reviews provide.
Goodreads is a place to explore books. It is not a circle-jerk for people to *only* talk about the books they enjoy. If that's how you prefer to use the platform, that's on you. But your disrespect and begrudgment of others who would rather choose to spend time actually analyzing work - surface-level or otherwise - to add to the discourse of what structurally makes for a sound story, only further proves that you never fully understood what it meant to absorb literature and understand it on a fundamental level.
Which is *fine*. Perhaps you're the casual reader; I refuse to take that away from someone. But someone else who looks at this critically isn't to be discouraged because you prefer to look at everything through rose-colored lenses.
If Goodreads was intended to be a place of just sunshine and rainbows, there would be no reviewing system - no place to provide star ratings and lines about what you found valued or devalued the work. In art, there are negative and positive reviews. And to stay true to the premise of this site and community, there are negative and positive reviews here.
Goodreads is meant for the casual reader as well as the analytical mind. This is why an entire library of books you've heard of and haven't heard of exist on this platform - archives from comics to classic literature found in academia curriculae.
If you are to tell me you've never passed up on a book due to low ratings here, you'd likely be fooling yourself.
While ratings can be highly subjective, you proved in your response that you didn't read this review. What likely happened was you saw a 1-star followed by a longform review and said, "Oh man, they must really HATE this." And because you likely love this series or Sarah J. Maas, you found it within yourself to play to some fallacy wherein because the review is negative it was a waste of time on *their* part for still exploring this work. Perhaps, however, this work is fundamentally and poorly written for a multitude of reasons. Does it still serve a purpose to the casual reader in terms of something indulgent that *someone* out there can bite into and enjoy? Perhaps. I don't see it, but it must be there, because Maas' fans are vast. (And this is coming from someone who still very much enjoys the one and only book I like from anything she's ever written.)
Instead, if you were to look further into the review, perhaps even actually read it, you'd find this reviewer has taken their time to actually dissect what makes the review plausible and even valuable to someone who wants to actually explore these books. Because - again - with a reviewing system unfortunately you do get the people who are more often inclined to review something positively and never give anything valuable dissection. The result there is some readers unwittingly walk into something they didn't sign up for. Instead, this reviewer has taken their time to strip down why this series, and this particular title, make for faulty constructs of what we might consider a story.
A story can be linear, nonlinear, can come in many voices, and it can bend our ideas of time. But with Maas it's hardly ever that deep, and for what was supposed to be a linear narrative following the story of these charaters, instead we have witnessed what happens when the story has no perceived end by its author - or a publisher/editor who should likely be more hands-on with the work.
Not only does this reviewer extrapolate lines and analyze why they make for character abominations, she also explores the vocabulary, tone, behaviors, settings, plot lines and overall "problematic" ideals that were likely not explored heavily enough by the author before she put pen-to-paper. An author's responsibility is a heavy one, and the further I've dove into Maas' work myself, the further I've found I don't believe she takes that responsibility seriously. Not only are her stories riddled with inconsistencies from characters to concepts, but she introduces hard topics that never actually explore the problems behind them, leaving readers to believe that she prefers the abuse or behaviors she's representing in these books. And considering these are supposed to be YA, or something of the like, that type of writing can be detrimental in how readers perceive themselves in the stories or actually come to understand the world around them.
So no, it's important even the ones who hate the books continue them - fight through and criticially analyze them. Because for everything that is said *here*, there's so much of it not said in the people who post with 4 and 5 star reviews.
And I'll let you in on a little secret: Maas fans will often give something 4 or 5 star reviews before it's even released, and Goodreads does nothing to combat this. So the inflation you're seeing here is just part of a faulty market of ratings. Because at best, her series should receive possibly 3, if everyone were being honest.
I see what you mean Jennifer. And I do not deny there are problematic aspects about the series(and not just in this specific series from Sarah, but in the other one too) . They grabed my mind almost immediately and I could not close my eyes for tnem, even though I am a fan of the series.You see, my problem here was that I just didn't saw the point of reading( and probably buying) series that you dislike. I, personally, never continue a book or series if I didn't liked something major about them. For me it's just a waste of time, energy and money(if you bought the certain book, of course).
I admit my rashness. Before reading this review I read some other ones which weren't very specific and didn't had a good point. So when I got to this one I was already pissed off enough and read it sketcily. I fully understand that this is not an excuse and that I behaved foolishly. I am sorry for my rashness. I will try to be more responsible with my actions in the future.
P. S. English is not my first language so I am sorry if there are any grammar or other mistakes and if this is poorly written.
Magi wrote: "I see what you mean Jennifer. And I do not deny there are problematic aspects about the series(and not just in this specific series from Sarah, but in the other one too) . They grabed my mind almos..."Hey, and I hope I didn't come off too harshly, though I am sure I did. I just hate to see when people disagree with a review, they treat the one who penned it as though it's their problem.
Reviews take time, and ones like these are thoughtfully done. If we can't have an open discourse about what's good and bad about a book, then we're discrediting ourselves and the authors.
It's a really common thing on Maas' books on Goodreads for people to come for anyone who writes something negative about her books, because she's so beloved. And while I can definitely get fandom, I get tired of people constantly coming for people who don't agree with them.
I'm actually really happy that you found something you loved in this series. That's what books are meant for! If you loved it, then Maas did something right, you know? :)
I agree with you that there should be freedom of the speach. Not everyone can like can like the same things as everyone. Life just wouldn't be that interesting in that way.I understand why you decided to respond to me. Again, I acted rashly.
In the end I am happy that you're trying to see the bouth sides of coin, because that is an important thing in one community.
Ok but will no one (NO ONE?!) point out the absolutely glaring stupidity of the main plot line and the whole reason for Aelin’s main source of angst?!?! And how stupidly she dealt with that? And how idiotic she acted in the end? What was the point of her fucking forging the damned bloody lock (yes I am that angry), if she was willing to trade Erawan’s soul for stupid Elena who got everyone in that stupid mess to begin with, and who had lived a full life? She was willing, in the end, to sacrifice herself, for Elena. Not her kingdom. For fucking Elena. She was willing to make her friends and her army fight Erawan on their own, without her or her magic- just so that a soul could spend an eternity with some other souls?! Why. Just why. And don’t tell me for those 10 stupid years of life she bought her. It was the least she could do. Because had Elena not fucked up, Aelin’s parents wouldn’t have been murdered and she wouldn’t have had to flee and therefore she would not have sunk int that river to begin with. Therefore no need for Elena to save her. Wth Aelin.
Also, if those gods are so freaking powerful, why did they wait so long for Aelin and Dorian to come along? If they wanted to go home so badly, why not endow some earlier village idiot with all their powers, brainwash that unfortunate person into an obedient sentinel, and have them retrieve the key thingies, before Erawan was even awakened. Or at least, just pour a stupid amount of power into Aelin from the get go and tell her: yo, don’t worry, we’re giving you a boost so you don’t die or anything, just get us home. And for that matter, if Aelin’s powers came from Mala to begin with, why couldn’t the gods just damn well make bodies for themselves and open the gate so they could yeet themselves back home without having to rely on anyone else.
And honestly, if Aelin knew they could defeat Erawan without the gods, why not just forget about the gods altogether and get on with it- with all that fire magic she possessed?
Finally, for someone who claims to love her kingdom to the point that she would die for it, she sure takes her sweet ass time getting there to save it, not even once worrying about Aedion and how he might be managing on his own. And in the end, she does not sacrifice herself for her kingdom. She forged that lock knowing she would probably die, to appease the gods enough to ask them to spare Elena’s soul. Because clearly, her kingdom could very well survive without her or her powers, as it had done all along.
It’s these holes and inconsistencies that drove me mad. That and the systematic butchering of her characters, the incessant sex mentions (it’s fun when you have chemistry and it’s a build-up, but after a while it just got boring and repetitive), not to mention the gratuitous amounts of torturing plopped on just Aelin- torture which should have changed her much more than the endless pages of inner toil and conflict and self pitying indicated.
I am so angry.
Because I liked this series of trash fantasy at the beginning. I didn’t expect an educated epic, or Tolkien level of world-building and originality. But even that cheap, cheat meal equivalent of a read turned into... plain shitty, sloppy, lazy fanfiction.
Irina wrote: "Ok but will no one (NO ONE?!) point out the absolutely glaring stupidity of the main plot line and the whole reason for Aelin’s main source of angst?!?! And how stupidly she dealt with that? And ho..."I love this rant. I am so glad I quit Maas after one book.
completely agree with all the said points. After reading the half of the book, I knew exactly how it was gonna end and I just read through to finish it!
Word of advice: don’t put urself through reading a series you don’t like! Read stuff you enjoy! Rather than “suffer” through an 8 book series you hate
Camilla wrote: "Word of advice: don’t put urself through reading a series you don’t like! Read stuff you enjoy! Rather than “suffer” through an 8 book series you hate"Word of advice: people can "put themselves through" and validly critique a series you love without needing your permission or blessing to do so. Also, hate-reading can be a good time. Sorry you had to find out this way.
Camilla wrote: "Word of advice: don’t put urself through reading a series you don’t like! Read stuff you enjoy! Rather than “suffer” through an 8 book series you hate"It's important to have reviews that cover all the bases, not just people who adore it despite its faults! Besides, if you looked at my history in reading these books, you'd see that I started out enjoying them, but as the books went on, I saw the flaws in the characters and their characterizations, as well as the absolute ridiculousness of the plot.
Not to mention how a lot of the characters are basically just copy/pasted throughout all of Maas' works, which I can say for certain because I started out reading ACoTaR, but wound up hating where those books went, too :)
Goodreads is a review site! Not a fandom site! So critiques should be welcome, not just blanket praise.
I know your review is old but I laughed so much while reading it, because even though I’ve only just finished ‘Heir of Fire’, I can connect to some of your points. I don’t think I’ll keep reading this series, I was bored out of my mind with ‘Heir of Fire’ and it looks like it won’t get any better.
I actually agree with a lot of your points but I’m silly and willingly look over some of those things that bothered me. I’ve definitely read better writing but I still enjoyed them. I do think it’s interesting you brought the Rhysand scene up considering SJM wrote this series before the ACOTAR series.
I do let a lot of the writing mistakes slide because she was so young. I also found myself wondering where her editors are and wanting to give her a thesaurus. (It’s the constant padding everywhere that drove me the most crazy.)
While these reasons were dealbreakers for you, they weren’t for me and that’s absolutely fine.
Tiffany wrote: "I actually agree with a lot of your points but I’m silly and willingly look over some of those things that bothered me. I’ve definitely read better writing but I still enjoyed them. I do think it..."
I'm not sure why Goodreads is only just showing me this comment now, seeing as it's from back in July. This is a functional website.
I have to respectfully disagree about letting the writing mistakes slide because she was "so young," seeing as a) she wasn't all that young and b) that is what editors are supposed to be for. Supposedly, her work has become so popular, that she doesn't even have an editor anymore, because the publishing house just assumes that whatever she puts out there will sell, no matter its quality (and I have to agree, considering the fact that you yourself said that none of the above issues affected your enjoyment at all)
And that's fine! I'm glad that you can enjoy this series and her other work, but unfortunately after going through two whole series of hers, all I can see is terribly lazy and bad writing :)
I will say I'm not sure what you mean by it's "interesting" for me to bring up the Rhysand scene "considering SJM wrote this series before the ACOTAR series"? Because I am aware of this. My anger stems from the fact that a) I despise Rhysand and b) she is so ridiculously in love with her own character that she is incapable of not shoving him into my face, despite this being a completely separate series.
Chloe wrote: "U call SJM an idiot yet u wasted hours, days, reading 1,080,505 words you hated. Food for thought."I started out liking her work. Read ACOTAR first. Picked up ToG second. Moved my way through both series only to realize that both devolved into a terrible amalgamation of the same types of characters and plots and bad writing. I decided to keep reading specifically so I could have an educated opinion of the books and give a well-thought out analysis of the series in the end, from someone who truly started out enjoying her stuff, in order to give people more than just blind adoration to read so they can decide if the series is worth picking up in the end.
Food for thought.
Hi, i want to apologise for commenting on ur post and being rude. Hw and what u read as well as what you say and how u say it is your decision, and I shouldn’t have judged you or been rude, for that I am sorry. I may disagree with ur analysis, but your opinion is your own. I hope u find a good book that u like next time :)
The phrase that irked me: “a particularly vulgar gesture”. How many times is this used in the series? I enjoyed the books for what they were and they work for a young adult soft fantasy series. But the repetitiveness of some of the phrases that you mentioned as well as the “gesture” phrase always elicited an internal eye roll.
Randi wrote: "The phrase that irked me: “a particularly vulgar gesture”. How many times is this used in the series? I enjoyed the books for what they were and they work for a young adult soft fantasy series. But..."The phrase "vulgar gesture" now gives me indigestion when read in other works due to its repetitive use here :)
I would argue against it being YA fantasy due to how graphic the sex scenes became as the series went on, but I am in the minority with that these days it seems.
I thought I was the only person who hated this book, I really enjoyed the series for the most part up until this book. I feel like I washed my time & if I had known how it ended I wouldn’t have bothered. I skimmed the last 400 pages because why the hell do we need that much detail about a battle! It was damn near the whole book! I just about screamed when she lost her freaking powers & that well what a waste she didn’t even “save the world” like wtffff. I was so angry. I enjoyed the other characters more than I did her & Rowen. My goodness every time I think about this book I think of what a huge let down the series is. Smh. Thank you for your review!!!
Ayana wrote: "I thought I was the only person who hated this book, I really enjoyed the series for the most part up until this book. I feel like I washed my time & if I had known how it ended I wouldn’t have bot..."You are far from the only person to hate this book, but we are definitely the silent minority :)
I admittedly only really enjoyed the first book and a half, if I'm being honest, but I pushed on in the hope that it got better. And then when it didn't, I simply wished to see it to its end so I had a complete picture to form an opinion. And boy did I form an opinion.
I am normally completely for detailed battles, but Maas is objectively bad at writing a compelling battle or fight scene. This is partially because she isn't particularly good at describing them and absolutely does not know how to properly write a battle and the tactics needed to win one, but it's mostly because of the stakes she sets. The stakes in her books (but especially this series) are set cartoonishly high where the villain becomes a mustache twirling baddie that poses no real threat, and so you in turn do not care what happens to the characters—because you know they'll come out the other side okay! It's hard to be invested in a long battle when you know how it will end.
But I digress. I'm glad you liked my review :) And that it still occasionally pops up on people's radars to like and comment on, even after all of these years.
Thank you for this review. I just finished the series and have to say that although not everything was for me, I really liked it. I read a lot just to to get out of my mind and for me, these books really did the job I would even read them again.On the other hand after I finish a book I really liked but also have some trouble with author's choices I like to open Goodreads and look for reviews on what people didn't like about them. It helps me to further analyze critically aside from my emotions and I think this review was just what I was needing and looking for, even if I do or don't agree with some of the points you made (although the use of vocabulary, even if English is not my first language, did really piss me off haha).
Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Judy wrote: "Thank you for this review. I just finished the series and have to say that although not everything was for me, I really liked it. I read a lot just to to get out of my mind and for me, these books ..."I'm glad you were able to enjoy this series! And even find some use in my thoughts despite disagreeing with them :) <3
I am halfway through this book. And I'm so over it. It's too much? Maybe just dumb? Too many ppl doing silly things? This series is about 4 books too long. I give this one a vulgar gesture.
Liz Mackey wrote: "I am halfway through this book. And I'm so over it. It's too much? Maybe just dumb? Too many ppl doing silly things? This series is about 4 books too long. I give this one a vulgar gesture."I daresay this book isn't even worth one vulgar gesture. Save the energy!
Ironically, I am pretty sure I heard somewhere that the series was originally just up until Queen of Shadows (the fourth book, I think?), and based on where that ended (the king killed, and the introduction of Bigger Bads from there on out) it makes sense. I'm also pretty sure that the series' initial iteration on Fiction dot net originally ended around there, too.
So the series being about four books too long, as you said, isn't even entirely off the mark in reality also lmao
I am SO GLAD you mentioned the insane amount of completely unnecessary POV's I DONT GIVE A (censored) ABOUT anyone anymore, it takes so much away from the main plot when you just keep shoving more and more characters into the story. One more thing, WHY DID SHE SET UP A HUGGGGEEE BIG SACRIFICE JUST FOR EVERYONE TO LIVE? It would have added so much more to the book if Dorian or elian (forgive me for my spelling mistakes) would have just died. I was very thoroughly disappointed and I had to force myself to finish this book.
✨ Complaining about trash because I'm trash ✨ wrote: "I am SO GLAD you mentioned the insane amount of completely unnecessary POV's I DONT GIVE A (censored) ABOUT anyone anymore, it takes so much away from the main plot when you just keep shoving more ..."You are among the strongest of us. I am proud of you for finishing it, but by god at what cost, am I right?
The unnecessarily high stakes really did a lot to make the plot feel so cheap and flimsy when absolutely no one of import died. As I said in my review, I was never worried for any of the characters. I knew she'd never kill any of them! So it was a snooze fest, no matter how much she told me that the Big Bads were soooo evil and soooo powerful.
I’m so obsessed with this review. Spot on 😂
Lauren wrote: "I’m so obsessed with this review. Spot on 😂"You are too kind! I'm so glad this review still entertains even all these years later~
Mary Rose wrote: "This review is a masterpiece."You're too kind! Thank you <3
Great review. Only thing I'd challenge you on is... "I started out liking this series and Maas' writing"... Seriously?
We get told that SS is the greatest assassin in the world at 18.
Even though she's never learned of wyrdmarks in a world that magic exists.
Or finds out that someone is murdering competitors of the competition and each time they kill someone they take some of their power... and can't see that her major competitor grows in power and literal size each time after a death?
Or that she then blames the princess who's her friend instead?
Then when the princess saves her life... refuses to talk to her about wyrdmarks even though the princess could have helped her?
She's the greatest assassin but couldn't just assassinate the king who she has direct access to who has a son/crown prince who's actually a great human being? And she has access to the captain of the guard and all of the guards movements? WTF?
Or even when she's in a battle in a ring... and if you get kicked out of the ring you lose, then she gets her face smashed into a clock tower wall in the fight?
Or that we know she refuses to kill characters when she just let nox slip away from the competition one before the final duels and just like that... we move on and he doesn't appear till the last book for no real reason.
TOG book 1 was a dumpster fire... I struggled through a lot of it with the promise the series gets better.
Got to Empire of Storms, tried the Assassin's blade and had to DNF the series. I had enough.
nwil wrote: "Great review. Only thing I'd challenge you on is... "I started out liking this series and Maas' writing"... Seriously?
We get told that SS is the greatest assassin in the world at 18.
Even though..."
I mean. You can challenge me as much as you like, but it won't change my answer lmao
I liked the first book well enough at the time—not as much as I loved the first ACoTaR (and yes, I did genuinely love the first book, hated everything after)—but I found it entertaining enough. ToG shit the bed halfway through Book 2 for me, but I kept reading in the hopes it would get better, because, at the time, I still foolishly had faith in Maas as an author.
But, alas, I was wrong, and by the time I started reading the fourth book, I was purely reading for completionist's sake and because I could then say from an educated point of view that these books are terrible. Because I read all of them from cover to cover, and no one could claim I didn't give them a chance.
Yes, looking back I can see that ToG in its entirety is not good, but my reviews are about honesty, and I wanted everyone to know that these criticisms are coming from someone who had started out as an earnest fan of Maas and her books, but came to realize that none of her writing is particularly original or well-thought out. Especially since both of her series are basically copies of each other with the same types of characters and the same tropes and the same issues with the writing itself.
No idea why you are so antagonistic here, considering we both agree that this series is terrible. But whatever, I suppose. To each his own!
You said everything I thought by I’m not articulate enough to write. Can’t wait to read your own books when they are published. Something tells me they won’t be Disney versions. Thank God.
petaLee wrote: "You said everything I thought by I’m not articulate enough to write. Can’t wait to read your own books when they are published. Something tells me they won’t be Disney versions. Thank God."You are very sweet <3 Thank you for your kind words!
Thank you so much for saying everything I wanted to say! I am glad to be done with this series.
Faith wrote: "Thank you so much for saying everything I wanted to say! I am glad to be done with this series."I'm glad that you found a kindred spirit in my silly little words! I will forever be grateful to be done with this series and also everything Maas related <3