Cecily’s review of The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie > Likes and Comments

Oh, Cecily! I only read this one fairly recently, so I am looking forward to your thoughts on this!

Cheri wrote: "Oh, Cecily! I only read this one fairly recently, so I am looking forward to your thoughts on this!"

Maybe yours subconsciously added to my impetus. I'm loving it so far and will review it when I've finished.

I enjoyed your review very much, Cecily. Good to catch a glimpse of the kind of teachers you had. Like you, I had a cruel PE teacher and an ineffective history teacher. Loved that Venn diagram and while reading your review, I was trying to figure out where Ms. Brodie would fit into it. A stellar review, as always.

Laysee wrote: "I enjoyed your review very much, Cecily. Good to catch a glimpse of the kind of teachers you had. Like you, I had a cruel PE teacher and an ineffective history teacher..."

Thanks, and what a strange coincidence! Well, not the PE teacher, as I'm sorry to say that it's not uncommon in PE teachers, but the history teacher is! I was so bored and infuriated by her, when we did our O'Level exam (now GCSE) at age 16, I think we had to write short essays on five questions. I revised only four topics, and three came up. I should just have opted out of the exam, though if I'd asked, I'd probably not have been allowed to. Or better still, revised more. I think it was partly to spite her (girls weren't supposed to get D grades), but it was very silly.

Laysee wrote: "Loved that Venn diagram and while reading your review, I was trying to figure out where Ms. Brodie would fit into it. A stellar review, as always."

Thanks, and I'm slightly surprised (not sure why!) that you haven't read this. Your perspective, from a rather different viewpoint, would be fascinating.

Speaking of, while I didn't write a review, your perspective, Cecily, from a different viewpoint of the book than mine, and my own experience having been very different, reading your review has been illuminating and challenging.

Nice review, Cecily. I read this haunting book quite a few months ago but its memories are still vivid in my mind.

Lori wrote: "Speaking of, while I didn't write a review, your perspective, Cecily, from a different viewpoint of the book than mine, and my own experience having been very different, reading your review has been illuminating and challenging."

Now I'm wondering what your "very different" experience was. ;)
I'm guessing you had a more unequivocally favourable impression of Miss Brodie?

Gaurav wrote: "Nice review, Cecily. I read this haunting book quite a few months ago but its memories are still vivid in my mind."

Thanks, Guarav. I enjoyed your personal, philosophical meditation on it, and see we both question Miss Brodie's claim that she draws out, rather than puts ideas in.

"Miss Brodie in unarguably memorable, and she was good in the sense of effective, but she was bad - as she is portrayed here - in the wider, moral sense." The same, I think, could be said of Josephine Tey's titular character, "Miss Pym Disposes". Tey gives us, ostensibly, a murder mystery. BUT, Tey's aim is Miss Pym and that character's absolute immorailty: Miss Pym, with no background, has written a non-fiction psychlogical book which to everyone's astonishment becomes a bestseller. Pym is invited into academia to teach, but she's a fake, she knows nothing. ""Brodie" is the better book: Spark's aim is laser sharp while Tey's aim, although sharp, involves a murder which leaves questions. To me, "Brodie", in addition to being a better book, is also a better mystery: who will betray her, as you say. Nice review!

Excellent review, Cecily. I completely agree with you about the ending of the book taking a turn.

Cecily wrote: "Now I'm wondering what your "very different" experience was. ;)."

No. I only experienced one mean teacher, an English teacher who was forced by circumstance to put up with the antics of her star pupil. So your review struck me differently because of your empathy for, and broader look at, Miss Brodie than I had. Reading your thoughts that she was effective but morally bad -- to me she seemed more repugnant and, sorry to admit, far less shaded, I like your broader view and now I want to read it again sometime Cecily.

Greg wrote: ""Miss Brodie in unarguably memorable, and she was good in the sense of effective, but she was bad - as she is portrayed here - in the wider, moral sense." The same, I think, could be said of Josephine Tey's titular character, "Miss Pym Disposes"... ""Brodie" is the better book: Spark's aim is laser sharp while Tey's aim, although sharp, involves a murder which leaves questions. To me, "Brodie", in addition to being a better book, is also a better mystery: who will betray her, as you say. Nice review!"

I know of Tay, but haven't read her for at least 20 years, and not that one. Thanks for an interesting comparison - and a nice comment. I enjoyed your own analysis.

Cheri wrote: "Excellent review, Cecily. I completely agree with you about the ending of the book taking a turn."

Thanks, Cheri.

Lori wrote: "Cecily wrote: "Now I'm wondering what your "very different" experience was. ;)."

No. I only experienced one mean teacher, an English teacher who was forced by circumstance to put up with the antics of her star pupil. So your review struck me differently because of your empathy for, and broader look at, Miss Brodie than I had...."

Ah, your own educational experience. Sorry, I thought you meant your experience of reading the book.

Lori wrote: "Reading your thoughts that she was effective but morally bad -- to me she seemed more repugnant and, sorry to admit, far less shaded, I like your broader view and now I want to read it again sometime Cecily."

If I trusted the narrator, then yes, morally repugnant fits. As it is, I think it's more muddied.

Thanks, Lori, and I hope you'll enjoy a reread.

What a refreshing intake of this famous/in-famous novella and her famous/in-famous protagonist, Cecily. I liked the way you structured your review, following the plot and delving deeper into Spark's playful display of narrators and events.

Dolors wrote: "What a refreshing intake of this famous/in-famous novella and her famous/in-famous protagonist, Cecily. I liked the way you structured your review..."

Thanks, Dolors. It's a very cleverly-written book, but I think I approached it more cynically than you did, which is probably typical!

Dean J. Hill wrote: "Lovely review as always!"

Thanks, Dean. I enjoyed reading and analysing the book, but it isn't lovely, and nor is Miss Brodie.

I think the cast of minor female characters is meant to emphasize the attitudes both moral and social in 1930s Edinburgh when it was mostly the norm that work for women meant low pay/menial jobs. I considered the character of Jean Brodie to represent Ms Spark's own need to break out of or escape the narrow provincialism of those times. In the broader sense it also reflects the generally conservative attitude of people to new/artistic/extrovert. Of course Muriel Spark knew her character would be criticized for her admiration of Mussolini but sometimes I think she is just goading all those conventional attitudes and values. Being deliberately provocative - as a sort of revenge.

Cecily wrote: "Greg wrote: ""Miss Brodie in unarguably memorable, and she was good in the sense of effective, but she was bad - as she is portrayed here - in the wider, moral sense." The same, I think, could be s..."

Thanks! I've read 3 of Tey's novels in the past few months. She's sort of famous for writing anti-detective books: tying up lose ends doesn't much matter. Her Inspector Grant is unusual in that he doesn't do very much. He reminds me of the way Dashiell Hammett handled his first 2 novels: Red Harvest and Dain Curse, in which we never learn the private eye's name, nor do we learn anything about said private eye: it's a first person narration ONLY about the crimes. So far, it seems to me that Tey could have done the same thing with Grant: gave us a first person narrator with no identity. Is that any improvement, though, on a riff on Poirot and simply adding another eccentricity? Arguably, yes. Sayers' Peter Wimsey uses his gray cells often, but is simply and thoroughly English. Allingham's Albert Campion is referred to as a 'lunatic' in that author's first outing, "The Crime at Black Dudley". (Then again, who wouldn't be after a stay in a house that keeps creating new hidden passageways, staircases, etc., so that anyone can be anywhere for the sake of the story.)

Laura wrote: "I think the cast of minor female characters is meant to emphasize the attitudes both moral and social in 1930s Edinburgh... Brodie to represent Ms Spark's own need to break out of or escape the narrow provincialism of those times..."

I know almost nothing about Spark, but that makes perfect sense.

Laura wrote: "Muriel Spark knew her character would be criticized for her admiration of Mussolini but sometimes I think she is just goading all those conventional attitudes and values. Being deliberately provocative - as a sort of revenge."

Aha (or mwa-ha-ha?). Of course. Thanks, Laura.

Dean J. Hill wrote: "That's one of the best parts of reading - analysing and sharing thoughts or opinions. It helps me when I forget why I loved a book a year ago!"

I couldn't agree more.

LostKnight wrote: "Outstanding review."

Thank you. It's a very thought-provoking novella.

Flash forwards are not spoilers

Wasn't the handling of flash forwards so well done!
And I enjoyed your other categories too—this book has so many facets, and you've highlighted them very well.
And needless to add, I loved your conclusion! Great minds;-)

Fionnuala wrote: "Wasn't the handling of flash forwards so well done!..
I loved your conclusion! Great minds;-)"

Yes it was, and thanks, and yes!

Laura wrote: "I think the cast of minor female characters is meant to emphasize the attitudes both moral and social in 1930s Edinburgh when it was mostly the norm that work for women meant low pay/menial jobs. I..."

Hi Laura, about Mussolini and the times, have you read "Novel of Ferrara" by Bassari (sp?). Fantastic!

Great review, Cecily! I personally thought Ms Brodie's fascination with Mussolini and Hitler et all had a sexual side. Her holidays in Italy certainly made her feel so free that it made you wonder.

Hanneke wrote: "Great review, Cecily! I personally thought Ms Brodie's fascination with Mussolini and Hitler et all had a sexual side..."

Thanks, and I hadn't considered that at all, but it makes some sense.

Greg - I've read The Garden of The Fitzi-Continis by Giorgio Bassani - will read his others if I find in second-hand shops - thanks.

Greg, yes, thanks. I have put your recommendation on my list!

Magnificent review. I love all the thought-provoking questions you've put forward here. Imagine my horror in the middle of the novella after having this desire to have Miss Brodie as my own teacher. And interestingly, I always thought Spark herself as the narrator.

As always, you have written a thought provoking review. I wish I could have talked with you back when I read this. Thank you for giving me some things to chew on - your questions are useful.

Joshie wrote: "Magnificent review. I love all the thought-provoking questions you've put forward here..."

Thanks, Joshie. I enjoyed the succinct insight of yours.

Joshie wrote: "Imagine my horror in the middle of the novella after having this desire to have Miss Brodie as my own teacher..."

Yes, I don't even need to imagine. I felt much the same.

Patty wrote: "As always, you have written a thought provoking review. I wish I could have talked with you back when I read this. Thank you for giving me some things to chew on - your questions are useful."

Yes, that would have been good. Like most of us, I have a large TBR, and I'm fickle and spontaneous about what I read next, so I almost never do group or buddy reads. However, the big advantage of GR is that one can read alone, and then find friends and not-yet-friends who've read it recently enough to discuss with.

Excellent review, Cecily, and I like especially how your diagram shows that grey area of memorableness - that it’s not only the socalled good teachers that we remember. But also that miss Brodie is not so easily categorised. I remembered my own complex thoughts about her, which also made me wonder about the author - it is somehow difficult to extract a clear-cut view of the world or of humanity from this.

Helle wrote: "Excellent review, Cecily, and I like especially how your diagram shows that grey area of memorableness...."

Thanks, Helle.

Helle wrote: "miss Brodie is not so easily categorised..."

Very true, and I think that's part of the appeal of the book.

I just learned that Graham Greene considered Muriel Spark to be one the best novelists among his contemporaries. That's got my attention.

Michael wrote: "I just learned that Graham Greene considered Muriel Spark to be one the best novelists among his contemporaries. That's got my attention."

Thanks, I didn't know. And now I've learnt that Waugh was a fan as well, and that she was also a Catholic convert.

It's the quality of writing I'm looking for. By the time Greene published "The Burnt-Out Case" (1960), he punted his Catholicism.

Michael wrote: "It's the quality of writing I'm looking for. By the time Greene published "The Burnt-Out Case" (1960), he punted his Catholicism."

Well, there's a usage of "punt" that's new to me! I guess it means ditch or dispose of, or distance oneself from.

I use it for a flat-bottomed boat, propelled by a long pole, especially on the Cam in Cambridge or the Isis in Oxford, or the act of using that pole. Alternatively, I associate it with "taking a punt" to mean "taking a chance" on something!

oh, right. We've punted on the Cam.

The usage here is taken from America football. When a team can't advance the ball it has to kick it (punt) to the other team. From that, it morphed into a colloquial term meaning to give up on something and move on.

Michael wrote: "The usage here is taken from America football...."

Thanks for the etymology. My knowledge of and interest in American football is even less than soccer (zero), so I had no idea.

A compelling review, Cecily! I loved reading your pros and cons about Jean Brodie and deciding where she fell in your diagram...
Outstanding review!

Paula wrote: "A compelling review, Cecily! I loved reading your pros and cons about Jean Brodie and deciding where she fell in your diagram...
Outstanding review!"

Thanks so much, Paula. There was far more complexity than I expected when I picked it up. I had foolishly thought it was just a story about a prickly and unconventional teacher.

What a thought-provoking review, and I love the Venn diagram. I adored this book in my teens, and was interested to re-read it as an adult about ten years ago, finding it still excellent, even if not quite the same as I experienced it in my youth. I know that in some cases my view of past teachers has changed and gained nuance with time.

Emmkay wrote: "What a thought-provoking review, and I love the Venn diagram. I adored this book in my teens, and was interested to re-read it as an adult about ten years ago..."

Were you more critical of Brodie than you were as a teen? I expect I would be. Thanks, Emmkay.

Yes, that’s exactly right. As a teen, I found the idea of having a group of chosen peers and a charismatic teacher much more appealing.

Fantastic review! I love the Venn diagram haha, and great point on how the flash forwards really work for plot development. Like you know their future traits but not how it all pieces together just yet? It’s pretty brilliant and controlled storytelling. Great insights!

s.penkevich wrote: "Fantastic review! I love the Venn diagram haha, and great point on how the flash forwards really work for plot development. Like you know their future traits but not how it all pieces together just yet..."

Thanks, and I think you've put it better than I did! Certainly more succinctly.

Neat summation of a tricky book. Like you, I read it late. And struggled rating it, so I didn't. Still, there's no denying Spark draws an emotional reaction from her readers. This ain't Mr. Chips we're talking.

Ken wrote: "Neat summation of a tricky book... there's no denying Spark draws an emotional reaction from her readers. This ain't Mr. Chips..."

Thanks, Ken. I know of Mr Chips, but haven't read it, though I think I saw a film in my teens.