Ulysse’s review of The Moons of Jupiter > Likes and Comments

It certainly has the feel of a greek tragedy about it. Perhaps we need to realise that writers will sometimes do whatever they can to write, even ignoring their children. But the Nobel committee doesn't have to be bound like that.

Anyway, I can't recall reading a work by Munro. it feels like a blind spot for me.

I did not enjoy this work, too, Ulysse. The Greek tragedy of Munro's personal life was a shame.

Sad, sad, sad , Ulysse- on separating the work from the artist, I find such particularly hard in the case of writers, not to read their words in the light of what you cannot unread anymore (music and visual art resonating differently).

Nick wrote: "It certainly has the feel of a greek tragedy about it. Perhaps we need to realise that writers will sometimes do whatever they can to write, even ignoring their children. But the Nobel committee do..."

Nick, Let's face it most artists are selfish people. Not all mind you. The weird thing is the nice ones are not necessarily the most interesting.

About the Nobel. It was awarded Alice Munro long before any of the sordid details of her life came to light. She was genial, smiling Munro until after her death. Now she's mean, bad-mother Munro. I'm glad for the daughter and sincerely hope she has found some peace of mind.

And I'm really happy too because I got to make room on my bookshelves by hawking my many Munro's :-)

Laysee wrote: "I did not enjoy this work, too, Ulysse. The Greek tragedy of Munro's personal life was a shame."

It really was a shame, Laysee. It's always hard when you find out the awful truth about your favorite authors. Some I can forgive, some I can't forget. Munro is the latter. Ah well, there are always other books to read.

Ilse wrote: "Sad, sad, sad , Ulysse- on separating the work from the artist, I find such particularly hard in the case of writers, not to read their words in the light of what you cannot unread anymore (music a..."

I agree, Ilse. Writers are vampires, I've always thought, sucking the lifeblood of those around them so that their words can live on forever. Don't get me wrong, I like vampires and consider them people too. But there are degrees of vampirism. Those that drink thimbles of blood, those that drink pints and those that sacrifice their loved ones on the altars of Art.

Thank you for this.

It is a tricky one, Ulysses. I think everyone individually has a set of boundaries and limits for this. I totally understand you. I am fortunate not being in your position. I liked only her very early stories when she could not have known herself what would happened to her when she is older. And I do not care that much for her older stories. With her it is much trickier situation in terms of judging her compared to if she would be an abuser herself. More generally for these reasons I try not to read anything about the author when I can until I finish reading the book. But even for me there are limits I know that much. So I can totally relate to your feelings.

Alison wrote: "Thank you for this."

You're welcome, Alison :-)

Katia wrote: "It is a tricky one, Ulysses. I think everyone individually has a set of boundaries and limits for this. I totally understand you. I am fortunate not being in your position. I liked only her very ea..."

Tricky is the word, Katia, absolutely. I too prefer her earlier stories to the later ones, although I did love Runaway, which was the first book of hers I read.

Re her not being the abuser: it's true Munro claims not to have known about her husband's doings until after the fact and she did leave him for about a month upon finding out. But she went back to him and went on living with him many years until his death because she said she "loved him too much to live without him" and that she had been "told too late." I find this really disturbing. Now I've never been in a situation like this before, thank goodness, but if I had been Munro's daughter I probably would have lost my mind thinking : how could my own mother still be in love with the man who molested me from when I was nine to a teenager?

I'm not writing off her work on the basis of morals. I just can't enjoy it any more. I know too much.

I also find so many of her female characters profoundly unlikeable. Weird choice for Nobel.

You have opened up a fine discussion here, Ulysse. Credit to you for going into bat (cricket metaphor, in case you're wondering.) I still think it's a valid exercise to separate the artist's work from their actions. Let's face it, if we didn't whether by ignoring or being ignorant, we'd have little art, since there are so many ways we could dislike an artist from any moral or political stance. Even an arsehole (Australian spelling) has a point of view of the human condition, simply by having been an arsehole and what comes out of it (pun intended). Not advocating artists doing as they please or justifying moral repugnance.

Nick wrote: "You have opened up a fine discussion here, Ulysse. Credit to you for going into bat (cricket metaphor, in case you're wondering.) I still think it's a valid exercise to separate the artist's work f..."

Yeah I should probably get off my moral high horse, Nick, and accept that some artists are not nice people. I just can't enjoy Munro's stories as much now knowing what I know. I don't usually dig into authors' personal lives but the Munro case made a big splash and I was as affected by it as if I'd found out about my own grandmother's dark side. I was so disappointed, Munro being one of my literary heroines. Idols must fall I guess.

Alfia wrote: "I also find so many of her female characters profoundly unlikeable. Weird choice for Nobel."

I found the characters in this collection of stories particularly unlikeable, Alfia. And they're not even the cool unlikeable kind, if you know what I mean?

The poem you've put together here reads very well, Ulysses, but the news it contains is devastating.
Coincidentally, I was sorting books the other day to make space for new favourites and I came across an edition of Alice Monro's Selected Stories with yellowed pages and an ancient artifact as a bookmark—a shopping list! There were no cutlets on the list but several items that would need to cook in steaming pots.
I decided to keep both the shopping list and the book it was in. True, I didn't know about this abuse case that she made such an incomprehensible choice about: her going back to live with the man who'd been her daughter's abuser is like the stuff of a very disturbing short story—and she has written a few of those.
Will I keep my copy of her collected stories? Yes, because it's part of the story of my own reading life.

Fionnuala wrote: "Will I keep my copy of her collected stories? Yes, because it's part of the story of my own reading life."

You are a wise woman, Fionnuala. I'm always looking for excuses to get rid of books. And here I have the perfect excuse. I actually haven't gotten rid of my Munro collection as of yet, and I might keep one or two books of hers, perhaps Dance of the Happy Shades and Runaway, which are the ones I like best. They have been a big part of my reading life too and perhaps I should be loyal to that.

The Love of a Good Woman had already been a disappointment for me, which was strange because I’d gone into it expecting to love Munro. I thought at the time it was simply one of those cases where a writer I admired and I just didn’t meet in the same place. But reading this now gives that disappointment a completely different weight. It’s hard not to look back at the work a little differently once something like this enters the picture.

Sometimes you have to be serious, and this was serious business, sadly. I've not read Munro and don't plan to.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, Ulysse. My feeling is that if I judged every book by the life that its author lived, there would be a lot of empty space on my shelves. I don't agree with Alice Munro's actions, but I'll continue to read her stories.

Pia G. wrote: "The Love of a Good Woman had already been a disappointment for me, which was strange because I’d gone into it expecting to love Munro. I thought at the time it was simply one of those cases where a..."

Yep, it's deeply disturbing, Pia, and as much as I've tried to remain neutral I can no longer read her stuff in the same way now. There's always that shadow hanging over it.

Ken wrote: "Sometimes you have to be serious, and this was serious business, sadly. I've not read Munro and don't plan to."

It certainly is no joking matter, Ken. I can laugh at pretty much anything, but not this.

Paul wrote: "Everyone has a right to their opinion, Ulysse. My feeling is that if I judged every book by the life that its author lived, there would be a lot of empty space on my shelves. I don't agree with Ali..."

Everyone has a tolerance threshold, Paul. Mine has been crossed here and I simply cannot accept what Alice Munro did. This doesn't of course discredit her literary value. I just don't want to read her stuff anymore. Don't worry though, my bookshelves are still full of saints and sinners (mostly the latter) ;-)

Sigh.

My youngest daughter and I went on a huge Roald Dahl reading binge together, just living it up, loving his work. Then I read a collection of his short stories for adults and I learned something about him that was so sickening to me, I haven't been able to pick up his work again.

(I totally get Paul's comment above, too. I try NOT to know more about the private lives of my favorite authors/musicians/writers/artists. In fact, I go out of my way to know as little about them as possible. BUT, sometimes you do find out something, whether you wanted to or not, and you can't un-learn it. We, each of us, have the option to proceed or recoil).