Jonathan’s Comments (group member since Nov 13, 2019)

Jonathan’s comments from the Spine Crackers group.

Declan wrote: "Sage wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Acevedo connects imagery to the theme of being faced with constant challenges. Having a child at a young age, and trying her best to keep up her grades, as well as pu..."

I sort of agree with you, Declan. To me, the imagery definitely seems to enhance later in the book. However, I think that some of Acevedo's greatest uses of imagery are from moments other than when Emoni is cooking. One of the strongest examples I remember is when Emoni first kisses Malachi. Before the kiss, Acevedo includes a paragraph where she says "next thing I know, I'm arching up and holding his face between my hands. I place my thumb where his dimple would be if he were smiling. His hands move to my waist and I can feel their warmth through my jacket" (317). Then, during the kiss, Acevedo describes it by saying "His lips are soft...I step in closer, angle my head, move my hands to the back of his neck, and pull his face closer" (318). These instances of imagery let the reader know the extent to which Emoni embraces the romance of the action, and makes the kiss seem much more powerful than it would be without the use of such strong imagery. Examples like this are why I think imagery in "With the Fire on High" is greatest in instances other than cooking, but I'd love to hear some other opinions on this.

Kyla wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Kyla wrote: "Throughout the novel we are taken through Emoni's coming of age journey, portrayed through many themes such as perseverance, the strength and importance of family bond..."

See, that's more or less what I was thinking. In the beginning of the novel, we can totally agree that life was a bit rough on Emoni, one example being her poor relationship with her manager at the burger joint, a job she didn't even like (75). In Part 2 of the book, we see Emoni's character develop to learn important characteristics that end up treating her well, like self-discipline when she's preparing the winter dinner and stops herself from putting her own spin on the dish, telling herself "that's not the recipe" (220). This action helps her and her classmates earn a trip to Spain, forming that savory feeling in her. And towards the end of the story, many impactful changes come into Emoni's life bringing her on a roller coaster of emotions. This can be seen the night before Emoni's graduation, because even though graduation is usually a great feeling of relief, she is also clearly feeling the stress of officially entering adulthood, and it is preventing her from sleeping (376). Things like this are most likely why Acevedo decided to title the last section of the book as "Bittersweet".

Kyla wrote: "Throughout the novel we are taken through Emoni's coming of age journey, portrayed through many themes such as perseverance, the strength and importance of family bonds and believing in yourself. T..."

I like how you demonstrated Emoni's development in the story in a smooth fashion, going from a poor taste to a great one, and honestly I agree with most of what you had to say. However, when Acevedo was labeling the parts of the book, she actually had the "Savory" and "Bittersweet" section titles swapped. Though I agree with the way you organized it, why do you think Acevedo named these last 2 parts this way?

Sage wrote: "The chapter "Winter Dinner" displays the theme of hard work and discipline serving to be more useful than relying on only talent. Since the beginning of Emoni's experience with the newly offered cu..."

I totally agree with you in that discipline being more useful than good talent is a key theme in this book and the example you used is a perfect demonstration of that. However, Sage, one of the things you said really got me curious: what would happen if Emoni did end up giving in to her impulses and added chili aioli? Sure there's a chance it could have gone wrong, but isn't there also a chance that it could have worked out better? I'm intrigued to see what you think.

I feel that with the past two threads I've covered themes shoehorned in all throughout the novel, so for this thread I wanted to talk about rhetorical devices used by Acevedo as they are the spices that really bring out the flavor in her writing. She uses an abundance of metaphors that really get the reader to understand how Emoni feels in certain instances. One of my favorite examples is after the Winter Dinner is completed, where Emoni states that leaving the kitchen “feels strange...as if I’m naked” (221). Acevedo uses this metaphor to show the strength of Emoni's emotional connection to the kitchen. In addition to metaphors, Acevedo's use of repetition in some cases help demonstrate the true power of Emoni's emotions. For example, after finishing speaking to Tyrone's mother, Emoni states "She's off before I can wave back. Before I can say thank you. Before I can say I always have plenty of Children's Tylenol. Before I can ask her why Tyrone wasn't the one to pick up Babygirl, or why I'm accused of being the irresponsible one but he's so often excused from having to be as much of a father as I am a mother" (257). Repeating the "before I can" shows how Mrs. Palmer's abrupt departure fueled Emoni's flaming ball of rage that she keeps to herself, which the reader can easily pick up on. Any other examples of metaphors or repetition or even other rhetorical devices?

Kyla wrote: "Zach wrote: "In the chapter "Dreams" Acevedo expresses Emoni's hopes and wishes for her daughter Babygirl in a creative way. In the text it states "There's so much I want for her that sometimes I t..."

I find that the email to Aunt Sarah at the end of Dreams provides a great but subtle example of what you guys are saying. In it, Emoni describes how Emma lost a Halloween costume contest, and states "but next year we are going to plan in advance and we will win that contest, Wakanda or no Wakanda" (206). This minor detail shows how Emoni wants the best of the best for her daughter, as well as how her competitive personality contributes to her endless determination, especially when Babygirl is involved.

In chapters Coven and Dreams, Acevedo uses her rich writing to portray the “like mother, like daughter” concept as a theme. It is evident in these chapters that Emoni tends to compare Babygirl’s life to her own. Towards the end of Coven, when Angelica, ‘Buela and Emoni are deciding on what costume to make for Babygirl for Halloween, Emoni looks at Babygirl while she’s eating and decides “‘I think it’d be cute if she was a chef’” (203). Emoni sees a love for food in Babygirl that is very similar to her own, thus stating the idea. Although this is a very blatant comparison, it is still important to point out and appreciate. In the next chapter, Dreams, Acevedo begins with “I sometimes wonder what my mother might have dreamed for me if she hadn’t died when I was born” (204). And though at first this may seem off-topic, the next paragraph begins with “I dream every single day for Babygirl” (204). By including this in the text, Acevedo has made Emoni‘s train of thought put herself and Babygirl in the same situation, furthering her comparison of herself and Babygirl. Clearly, Emoni sees herself in Babygirl, and this is brought out the most by Acevedo’s unique writing techniques.

Kyla wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Kyla wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "When talking about imagery in the beginning of "With the Fire on High," the first thing that comes to mind for me is when Emoni tries to find her fami..."

This is an interesting find. Perhaps as the story progresses, family connections will become less important to Emoni. As you have found, Emoni's refusal to call Julio could be Acevedo attempting to convey to the reader that she is changing as a character and family is becoming less important to her. I agree with you that she seems uncaring when it comes to 'Buela's comment, I just had not read up to that moment until now. I'm curious to see how else Emoni changes in the remainder of the story.

Kyla wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "When talking about imagery in the beginning of "With the Fire on High," the first thing that comes to mind for me is when Emoni tries to find her family's features in Emma. She inc..."

See, the theme I presented is that strong family connections are important to Emoni, not just that they exist. Clearly family connections are not as strong with all characters in Emoni's life as they are with Babygirl and 'Buela, but as you said, Emoni tries to maintain her good character with them anyway. In fact, using the example you used, Acevedo portrays Emoni to keep "trying [to call her father] and contacting hotlines to see if anyone had heard from him" (137). Emoni is shown to want to keep her ties to Julio, despite him never being there for her. To me, it all ties back to her desire to keep family as close as possible, but I could be wrong. Do you have any additional thoughts?

When talking about imagery in the beginning of "With the Fire on High," the first thing that comes to mind for me is when Emoni tries to find her family's features in Emma. She includes details such as "Her big brown eyes and long lashes have to come from me," "her lips are the same as her father's," and "I like to think I can see [my mother's] lineage in her button nose, the seashell of her ears" (29-30). This shows the recurring theme of having strong family connections, which is very important to Emoni. But perhaps the deepest connection for Emoni is that between her and her daughter. Acevedo makes reader feel the strong bond between the two women through scenarios like when Babygirl returns from Tyrone's house. She describes Emoni's alleviation of her paranoia by stating "it's like our entire apartment had been holding its breath, but now that Babygirl's returned, even the breeze coming in through the window heaves a sigh of relief" (53). Acevedo's decision to personify the apartment and the cool breeze to share Emoni's experience makes the feelings seem more intense, which has a larger impact on the reader. I'm curious to see if Emoni's tightest connection being with Emma over other characters like 'Buela and Tyrone will play a greater role in the story later on.

Declan wrote: "Eva wrote: "Abby wrote: "Eva wrote: "Margaret Atwood uses symbolism in the novel to emphasize a point she is trying to make about the society represented in the book. A society that bases a woman's..."

Although the Econowives seem to be the lowest female ranking class in the Gilead in the beginning of the novel, as you read on you will learn about what are known as Unwomen. Unwomen are feminists from before the Gilead had begun. This is clear in chapter 20, when Offred is watching a movie with Unwomen holding signs that state "freedom to choose," "recapture our bodies" and "do you believe a woman's place is on the kitchen table" (120)? Offred explains earlier that "Unwomen were always wasting time," which to me it seems as if Offred was brainwashed into thinking so due to the Unwomen having complete opposite beliefs of Gilead (118). This could be why Offred says that "they were Godless" a few sentences after as well (119).

Declan wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I do not believe that the events that took place in "The Handmaid's Tale" could happen in the future of the United States. In the novel, some people are not even "allowed out, exce..."

I see what you are saying Declan. If any nation were anywhere near the darkness of a dystopia, other, more powerful nations would most likely step in and help them rise. However, I believe that eventually there will be a greater chance that some nation will crumble in order to maintain balance on Earth. Like you said, North Korea could be a potential candidate, due to their current leadership and practices. But no one knows what will change in the next 15 years. Any country could make a poor decision that leads them down a negative path. Historically, this happens all the time, with examples like Pearl Harbor, Napoleon's invasion of Russia, and any Civil Wars. Anyway, what I am trying to get at is that right now, it looks like it will be North Korea or no one heading towards an apocalypse, but really it's anyone's game.

Kyla wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Kyla wrote: "Declan wrote: "I strongly doubt that this could happen in the future to the United States. I strongly doubt this because people are too involved in politics for big ch..."

Thanks for your input. Your response was very well stated; I agree that the other countries would step in and help prevent a losing nation from entering a dystopia. One could only hope that it never has to get to that scenario, though. It is crazy how evolved we have become, and how many things could have made Earth an apocalyptic hell. So many things had to go right in order for us to be here today: the meteor hitting the planet and killing off the dinosaurs, monkeys and apes adapting to survive by learning to walk on two feet and use the other limbs to grab and stabilize, and so much more. I can't even visualize where we would be if everything had not gone the way it did on the world's timeline. Naturally, nothing is perfect though, and there are some hiccups in this planet's history. But thankfully, we're still here and we're thriving. Let's hope to continue down that path.

Kyla wrote: "Declan wrote: "I strongly doubt that this could happen in the future to the United States. I strongly doubt this because people are too involved in politics for big changes to be made quickly. Anot..."

Declan and Kyla, your responses got me thinking: with the technology known in the world today, another war could set whatever country faces defeat so far behind all other nations and could take a very long time to return to modesty. Do you guys think that the next war could result in a dystopian society somewhere on Earth? Personally, I think it is possible, but not in the same way that the dystopia in "The Handmaid's Tale" is depicted. What do you guys think?

Abby wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Margaret Atwood makes abundant use of color for establishing symbolism in the novel. Atwood makes some objects more colorful if they are more positive and makes other objects darke..."

As well as brighter colors to symbolize hope for a bright future, there are multiple uses of dark imagery to symbolize a dark past. For example, Offred decides to point out "how dark the shadows were under people's eyebrows and along their cheekbones" when describing still photos of some war in American history (145). Clearly war and fighting is a negative part of history, due to unnecessary casualties that can be caused. However, she also expresses that "The interviews with people still alive then were in color" (145). Being one of few living people fighting in a war is a very positive thing. This could be Atwood subtly trying to let the reader know that all negatives have some positive balance to it.

Declan wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Declan wrote: "I feel that the purpose of the epigraphs is to show possible thoughts of the and actions that are going to be taken by Offred. The third epigraph which could possibl..."

Anytime! I'm always happy to help others by providing different angles on the topic. I totally agree with your thought that Serena Joy is a character to act in desperation, Declan. She is definitely an interesting figure. Offred explains later in the novel that sometimes she "is out, visiting another Commander's Wife, a sick one; that's the only place she could conceivably go, by herself, in the evenings" (154) but also sometimes she "takes a few days off, tucked up in bed. Then she's the one to get the company" (155). With Serena, I often ask myself "Why?" She is a very mysterious character to me and is always getting me thinking throughout the novel.

I do not believe that the events that took place in "The Handmaid's Tale" could happen in the future of the United States. In the novel, some people are not even "allowed out, except for...walks, twice daily, two by two around the football field, which was enclosed now by a chain-link fence topped with barbed wire" (4). In the United States today, everyone is given equal voice and equal rights and nothing can be enacted without the consent of the majority. Because of this equality, no American in their right mind would willingly put themselves nor anyone else in such a prison-like environment that their every move is being so strictly monitored as it is in the book. Additionally, it is close to impossible for people to kill off the entire American government and equally unlikely that the citizens of the nation would obey these murderers as it all happens in the story. Could it happen in the future? Maybe not exactly the way the book describes it, but unfortunately I do believe that a dystopian future is a possibility for the nation, if enough wrong decisions are consecutively executed.

Declan wrote: "I feel that the purpose of the epigraphs is to show possible thoughts of the and actions that are going to be taken by Offred. The third epigraph which could possibly be about desperation as Abby s..."

I too believe that the epigraphs can foreshadow potential thoughts and actions that will be taken throughout the story. However, do you think that these actions will only be taken by Offred like you said? Or do you think other characters in the novel might make impulsive decisions based on desperation? For me that more characters will be taking such actions and these actions will continue to further the plot as Offred's actions and thoughts have. But I am curious to hear your position on this.

Margaret Atwood makes abundant use of color for establishing symbolism in the novel. Atwood makes some objects more colorful if they are more positive and makes other objects darker and more dull to symbolize something negative. When Offred is talking about the smile of a beggar, she describes it as if "the green-painted plaster ceiling were opening and God on a cloud of Pink Pearl face powder were coming down" (46). Earlier, however, she explains that she sees "a funeral: three women, each with a black transparent veil thrown over her headdress" (44). It is clear in the text that brighter colors are used for positivity and darker colors are used for negativity.

Atwood's inclusion of those three epigraphs in the beginning of the novel provides a preview on how in "The Handmaid's Tale," survival for women that have been enslaved depends on their production of children for the higher classes. This is clearest in the first epigraph, where Rachel tells Jacob to "give me children, or else I die." As for the second epigraph, research shows that Jonathan Swift's modest proposal is to sell children of poor families as a food source to wealthy landlords of England (Britannica Encyclopedia). The last epigraph ties in with the second one, as it conveys that some actions do not have to be written down in order to know not to do it, the example being eating stones.
Atwood uses imagery to help the reader have a clear understanding of Offred's experiences in the past or present. This imagery is strong in the very beginning of the novel, when Offred is describing where she had slept, calling the floor "varnished wood, with stripes and circles painted on it" and explaining the scent as "sweat, shot through with the sweet taint of chewing gum and perfume" (1). This language use incorporates the different senses of the reader and makes the reader feel as if he or she is in Offred's shoes.

Source:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/A-Mo...