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(group member since Jan 12, 2014)
Daisy’s
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from the My Sibling The Mythical Being! group.
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Beware - this discussion may contain spoilers from ANY of the MSTV books as we DO allow them here.
Haaaave fun!

As a side note, I found a quote from Fangtastic (MSTV#2) when Ivy goes to the vamp adoption agency which expands on this: "It looked like a cutesy human baby store, but there was a tiny upside-down 'V' in the corner of the window, so Ivy knew she was in the right place - places that served vampires often used a mark like that to identify themselves to their customers." I'm guessing more visible places (like this shop) tend to use an upside-down V, so it's less obvious it stands for 'vampire'. Whereas when the Lazars created their symbol, they probably weren't worrying about bunnies and were proud of being vampires, so that could be why they opted for the normal 'V'.
So, yeah, the V seems to be a symbol of vampirism, not of the family specifically. I suppose it's the eye that distinguishes it as the Lazar symbol - it'd be interesting to know why, but I don't think that's ever explored. The symbol reappears at the end of Revamped (MSTV#3) when Charles has a box with it carved on top (containing his love letters to and from Susannah and a picture of them on their wedding day) and on page 65 of Love Bites (MSTV#6), when the Countess is said to be wearing a choker with the symbol on it.
That's a really interesting point - they do seem to be Lazar family heirlooms, so why would Charles have them? Maybe his parents gave them to him before he met Susannah, kind of as a "in case you ever get married" gift?! But I don't know why they'd do this. I mean, if they're a family heirloom surely they would have been the Count and Countess's wedding rings too, and presumably they wouldn't just hand on their wedding rings without reason. And even if they did, Charles had fallen out with his family, so why would he keep all these things with their symbol on?? It's a shame we can't ask him, haha.


Because of what I'm about to go into, I particularly recommend you don't read on here unless you've read Twin Spins (MSTV#9) and the books leading up to it.
Obviously this is a discussion for anything and everything Charlotte Brown related, but I'd like to start us off by talking about her (sort of) transformation in Star Style and Twin Spins. I was planning to just put it forward that I like this storyline and let the conversation evolve collaboratively, but I'm not feeling well today so as a coping mechanism I think I'll just spew out all my thoughts on this at you. I'm probably going to get way more in-depth than Sienna Mercer intended and might stray away from what we actually see in the books.. but I hope you'll forgive me. :D If you have a less obsessive point to make about Charlotte, feel free to ignore my ramblings and just comment below about that. But if you have any thoughts on the points made in my nerdy casual essay, I'd love your input!
I recently heard that readers tend not to like characters changing in books, despite the fact that real people do. However I think Charlotte Brown is a really good example of character development. In Star Style (MSTV#8) Jessica made Olivia look like a fake in front of all her fans, and it was then that Charlotte finally did something to the good of Olivia, after seven books of manipulating her for her own gain. I want to analyse why it was this event that turned Charlotte's character around.
My interpretation is that Jessica - in many ways a more ruthless version of Charlotte at her worst - made Charlotte realise the damaging effects of using others as props for the one-star show she saw her life as. She watched as Jessica acted all friendly to the face of a fan, then insulted her behind her back - probably something Charlotte had done before herself, or at least could imagine herself doing. She watched as Jessica chased after Jackson just because he was good-looking and famous, but always ended up unhappier than Olivia, who liked him for who he actually was as a person (again, similar to Charlotte's pining after Jackson). And she experienced what it's like to have her admiration for Jessica taken advantage of and her "friendship" dropped then used then dropped again first hand - which she'd been doing to Katie and Allison for years.
I think that when Jessica turned such a pure moment of Olivia greeting Jackson (and them being so happy and comfortable with eachother) into something ugly out of spite, it was the final straw for Charlotte. Seeing her own methods - spying on people, twisting the truth for personal advantage, and cheating to beat an honest person - used in such a public way made her finally realise the negative effects her actions had on other people. Olivia having to face hugely publicised, scrutinised and widespread consequences must have shown her how everything she'd done to Olivia in the past had the same psychological effect, only on a much smaller scale. So she decided to give Jessica a taste of her own medicine, just as Jessica had done to her. Charlotte had been forced to face her own true colours - it was time for Jessica to do the same.
In the next book, Charlotte seems to have let go of this manipulative streak. She is able to be friends with Olivia without resenting her, because Olivia's honesty is no longer a threat to her underhandedness. In a paradoxical way, I feel like her bluntness increases as she become a nicer person. This seems paradoxical but to me it actually makes perfect sense. Her manipulative ways were always her biggest fault. Her relationship with Olivia was a lot more destructive than her enmity with Ivy because she was pretending to be Olivia's friend. At least Charlotte and Ivy were honest with eachother. In this way when she let go of her need to trick people, her trait of being honest with people shone through more brightly. To give an example, I remember her at one point telling Olivia she looked tired or washed out or something quite rudely - but Olivia ultimately appreciated her honesty.
Personally, I love that Charlotte remained blunt and self-assured. I've always struggled with insecurity and not saying what I truly mean in conversation because I don't want to offend or alienate the other person, so I think I look up to this capacity of her's. But from a more objective viewpoint I think this represents a really fantastic character progression - as I touched upon earlier. I've always hated how Charles changes in the later MSTV books (Sophie and I are planning to discuss this in the Charles thread, so look out for that) because it feels like a completely different person to who he used to be. Whereas Charlotte retains some of her old traits, meaning it feels natural and we still recognise her as her. Earlier I was actually looking at Sorting Hat Chats, which is a blog which takes a alternative view of the Hogwarts sorting from Harry Potter. The reason I mention it is because I think the model they use for personalities kind of fits what I'm trying to say here. On that site you sort yourself into a Primary and Secondary House, and in the authors' words: "Your Primary House defines WHY you do things. Your Secondary defines HOW." I feel like Charlotte's development feels natural because her HOW (secondary house) remains constant. She is still unrestrained in being herself. She is still confident and uses words to her advantage. She still likes to be listened to and thinks what she has to say is important. But her why is different - she doesn't act the way she does to bring others down or have power over them. She does it because she likes expressing herself. I'm no expert on Sorting Hat Chats and this method but yeah, I saw a correlation there.
This development from mean girl to good-intentions-but-still-blunt-girl reminds me of a character from the TV show The Next Step, if any of you guys have seen that. (If you haven't, SPOILERS!!) When Emily stopped acting out of selfishness and started supporting the entire team, her feisty self-righteousness didn't go away. In fact, it became a trait she used positively to confidently speak up for the team and boost everyone by making them see the truth. In the same way, Charlotte is a valuable character in the story and a cool person because of this "negative" trait. She used it to help Olivia face facts and make decisions, and to help Jenny discover her confidence in Twin Spins.
I'm not trying to say here that being direct without always having regard for the other person's feelings is definitely a good thing - but I think we can agree it's better than manipulating people, and readers like characters because they're flawed, right? For this reason I love that Charlotte didn't become 100% selfless and truthful after her one act of kindness in book 8. Book 9 showed how she could still be "the same old Charlotte" who was self-centred, quite arrogant and not exactly sensitive, but a good-hearted person at the same time. That was the point, for me, when she became one of those side characters who is so well fleshed out that their own story seems as interesting as the main characters'. For example, I would be fascinated to see what Charlotte's friendship with Katie and Allison is like after this point. I believe they're in the dance-announcement scene at the start of Twin Spins, but they don't seem to tag along after her in any of the later scenes Charlotte's in, like they would have done in the previous books. Maybe Charlotte apologised to them and they went their separate ways. Or possibly they realised she wasn't truly their friend and abandoned her, like she abandoned Jessica. Whatever the case may be, I'm guessing this transition was a rough time for Charlotte. I think she's more intelligent than we're shown directly from Olivia and Ivy's perspectives. I'd love to get inside her head and see how she dealt with this, and came out with so much confidence intact. As you've probably guessed, if you've got this far through this insane amount of text (give yourself a pat on the back!) overall I find Charlotte a really fascinating character! It's suuuuch a shame she's hardly in MSTV after book 9. What do all you think of her?

I spotted a couple more in Date With Destiny...
Sophia says on page 23: "I can't as much as go on Twitter without seeing another update from some fabulous film set that Jackson has posted." I believe it's in Stake Out (MSTV#12) that the MSTV-universe versions of Twitter come in (at least, that's what I saw them as) - BirdChirp and BatSqueak. Maybe SM switched to those because of copyright reasons, or in effort not to make the book seem dated in the future? (I don't know why this is interesting lol, anything MSTV is worth discussing to me!)
On page 34 Ivy says Olivia is the Yin to her Yang. These are terms from Chinese philosophy, literally meaning "sunny side" and "shady side". It describes how opposites can complement one another and be interdependent on eachother. Cute!
The beep on Horatio's car is a snippet from the "Lacrimosa" passage of Mozart's Requiem. You can listen to it here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjf9ig Dramatic!
From page 141: She hurried into the house,wanting to catch up with Olivia right away, and find out why their grandparents' house had suddenly become Fort Knox. Fort Knox is an army post in the USA, famous for its high security due to the fact that it stores a large part of the country's gold reserves. I think I've heard of this but never knew what it was before. The things you learn from MSTV, eh?
At Tessa and Alex's wedding reception, the band were reportedly playing an upbeat version of Beethoven's Symphony No. 5, which you can check out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T3D5... I found an upbeat version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leVFy... It's so funny to imagine the vampires all dancing to this!
They did their first dance to another Beethoven song, Moonlight Sonata: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tr0o...
As the other guests danced, we see Vincenzo dancing with the Queen "like he was performing an act in the Nutcracker." The Nutcracker is one of the most successful ballet shows ever.
As a side note, I have now discovered that Ctrl + F (searching a web page for particular words) is super useful on this thread to make sure I'm not repeating a reference we've already spotted before!

"Hey, look," she went on, pointing to the happy couple's clasped hands. "They're wearing rings just like ours!"
Ivy's mouth fell open. "Those aren't like ours," she exclaimed. "Those are ours. We're wearing our parents's wedding rings!"
The narrative goes on to explain that this is the reason Ivy's ring was too big, while Olivia's fitted perfectly (as you pointed out, Soph). Ivy also remembers how her father had been quiet and distracted after he'd given her the ring for her tenth birthday. So I'd say that's enough proof of that fact,
I suppose the other possibilities might be an engagement ring, like you say, or some kind of promise ring perhaps? But given the context I think those are unlikely. That's a good idea about Ivy giving it back to him. Ooh, actually, I've just had a brainwave that disproves it from being anything but a mistake. Allow me to get on my analysis-nerd to explain it...
Let's say that the facts we have established are that (a) it's not a mistake in the writing, and (b) it is the wedding ring Charles wore when he married Susannah. This gives us two possibilities, which Sophie already pointed out - (1) Ivy gave the ring back to him around book 5 after she discovered he was her biological father or (2) he never stopped wearing the ring.
Let's look at theory 1 first: I think it's unlikely Ivy would give the ring back to him. Ivy has an attachment to it (she's often playing with it) and Olivia still has hers - I don't think she'd give it away. He gave it to her so presumably wanted her to have it - I don't think he'd accept it. Looking at the quote above, I'm not sure he would be able to cope with this reminder of Susannah every day. And it's likely that he would have stopped wearing the ring now that he's dating Lillian, especially given that there were hints of him thinking about marrying her in this book. If he only put it back on a few months ago I might say that it wouldn't have been too much of a struggle to do so.
In theory 2 however, it seems more plausible to me that he wouldn't be able to face taking off the ring - not after all these years - hence him wearing it now. This can be pretty easily disproved by the likely idea that he did take off the ring by giving it to Ivy, but then again there's your theory, Sophie, of the twins' rings being replicas. I don't think this is very likely because of the emotional reaction of Charles on seeing the ring again on Ivy's tenth birthday. To go to all the trouble of making replicas when he was still so traumatised about everything, again doesn't feel right to me. Ivy would probably have asked him about the ring if she and him had matching ones, or would have guessed it was a wedding ring because of him wearing it on the ring finger of his left hand. And why wouldn't he make a replica that would fit her?
OK, I was only half being purposely OTT there... I have to admit that was really fun. Basically I think it was a mistake. Interesting to talk about though!

Wow, I can't believe how much I just ranted about a single line. Don't worry, folks, there's plenty more where that came from...
I agree completely with what you said about Jackson, Sophie. It is an extremely similar storyline to him surprising Olivia just a few books ago (Love Bites, MSTV#6) so I'm not really sure why SM decided to do it again. That's a really good point about him planning the surprise, not just getting the night off at the last minute: it really makes him come across as disrespectful, as you said. I appreciate that he had good intentions and you're right, he's not an outright jerk buuut that doesn't stop this just being a stupid thing to do. Like, when he phoned Olivia on the morning of the dance to tell her he couldn't come, he literally made her CRY and she felt sad throughout her entire day of planning for this awesome event she organised. If he'd just said that morning, "Surprise, I'm coming tonight!" she would have been just as excited as she was later on except without all the turmoil of missing him. Honestly I can't blame her for being slightly clingy at certain points in this book (at one point she tells him he needs to phone her because she has something urgent to tell him; later revealed to be "I miss you") with him deliberately distancing himself from her. To me this whole storyline seems to be simply building up suspense towards a plot twist at the end of the book - not something the characters would realistically do. I feel like SM could've come up with something more original - I'd actually like to see conflict between Olivia and Jackson that isn't "he's crazy busy with his career" one of these days.
Something else I wondered about this Jackson thing was how he said he took "one night off" to come to the dance. Surely he doesn't work every day and every night? It really comes across like he just works 24/7, now I think about it. Is Hollywood really that crazy? I'm not sure.
Another thing that's never really made sense to me in this book is how Olivia's movie is postponed because the Hollywood writers went on strike. Didn't she already have the script? I don't really see how the writers going on strike pushes back a film that's already been written...
This one's a small thing but on page 61 it says Horatio has a plaster on his forehead after Ivy hit him with her coffin lid. How did her opening a coffin injure his head?
I think the introduction of Wallachia was a very interesting idea and it was great to see more of the Count and Countess - particularly in a different light, beginning to perform their role of grandparents. It kind of frustrated me how they said Ivy couldn't tell Olivia about it though. It's just a school!! I guess the vamps don't want the humans freaking out that there's a place where vamps can hone their powers and grow stronger? Maybe that makes sense then.
One thing I really loooved was Charlotte's evolution in this story. She could so easily have gone back to being the mean girl after her brief gesture of friendship to Olivia in the last book - but she didn't. It's great to see this kind of progression in a long series like this. It's mad to think that just a few books ago she was so jealous of Olivia being with Jackson that she talked about kissing him in the school play just to get back at Olivia - and in this book she cries as she watches them slow dance together! That's so adorable.
At the end of this book there's an interview with Georgia Huntingdon, and at the end of it Olivia and Ivy say "Bye, Gloria!" This confuses me so much. Is it meant to be a joke? Or is it SM forgetting the name of the character, and it somehow slipped through proof-reading??
Overall this isn't one of my favourite books in the series, but I like it a lot. It took the series in some new directions (Wallachia, Charlotte being nice, Olivia party-planning, intro of new characters etc.), some of which paid off, some of which didn't in my opinion. But at the end of the day, experimentation is a good thing I think. Twin Spins was refreshing but was still a classic MSTV book. I noticed how lots of events take place within the same day, which reminded me of the early books in the series, so that was really nice. I also liked how we saw the twins making mistakes more in this story (i.e. Olivia fighting back against the bullies with bullying, and Ivy responding to her grandparents with frustration and not noticing Brendan's feelings) and how other characters influenced the story a little more (i.e. Jenny dealing with the Terrible Trio).

Again this makes me sad that cheerleading was sort of dropped after the first few books in the series. It seems to have been a big part of Olivia's life for many years and I think there's more Sienna Mercer could have done with it.

TWIN SPINS (MSTV#9)
First Appearance of Jenny, Lucrezia, Melinda and Veronica.
~Few weeks since Star Style~ [at one point it says the Bright Stars Award Show was a few weeks ago]
Friday: On the last day of school before the summer holidays, Principal Whitehead announces to the students that there will be a school dance in a week's time. Olivia learns that her movie, Eternal Sunset, has been postponed by a year, and so takes the job of Head Organiser of the dance. That night she stays over at Ivy's house.
Saturday: The twins' grandparents and Horatio arrive at the Vega house, and later they come to Mister Smoothie where Olivia has an interview for Charlotte's yearbook film. They tell Ivy that they'd like her to attend a prestigious vampire boarding school in Transylvania - Wallachia Academy.
Sunday: At the first committee meeting for the dance, three girls - Lucrezia, Melinda and Veronica, "The Terrible Trio" - from the grade above Olivia bully her. Ivy fights with her grandparents over not wanting to go to Wallachia Academy and phones Brendan. He starts acting strangely when she insults the school dance.
Monday: Olivia successfully confronts the Terrible Trio. Lillian meets Charles's parents for the first time. Olivia frets about how distant Jackson is being with her.
Tuesday: The Vegas, Olivia's family and Brendan's family visit Rebecca's farm. Olivia leaves Jenny in charge of the committee, and she phones Olivia to tell her that The Terrible Trio have managed to get on the official committee and are making all the decisions. Olivia talks to Rebecca, who inspires her to create a barn dance theme. Ivy nearly faints at the sound of Mrs Abbott squealing, and realises maybe her vamp powers do need controlling. Brendan tells her she needs to be honest with Olivia about possibly going to Wallachia.
Wednesday: Olivia tells the committee about the barn dance theme, but they're not happy, having already been preparing for The Terrible Trio's proposal of an all pink theme. The Count and Countess depart for Transylvania after receiving the news of Prince Alex and Tessa getting engaged. Ivy comes clean to Olivia about Wallachia Academy.
Thursday: At the final committee meeting, Jenny - now confident and forceful thanks to coaching from Charlotte - gives the Terrible Trio their own job to do which stops them trying to take over. Olivia switches the theme to a pink and black barn dance, which everyone is pleased with. Ivy realises Brendan wanted to go to the dance with her all along, and invites him.
Friday: Jackson sends Olivia some pink boots but tells her over the phone that he won't be able to make it to the dance. Later, he surprises Olivia by showing up after all, and everyone has a great time.

Yeah, I think a week between the two books makes the most sense.
Aw, thanks, Soph! :)



Doesn't it say somewhere during Aunt Rebecca's gathering how long ago they met Rebecca? That might give us a clue as to how much time passed since Lucky Break.
How's this for a rewrite of the final day? Saturday: Ivy and Olivia arrive in Hollywood and tell Mr Harker Ivy doesn't want the role, but they decide Olivia can play both parts. That evening, at the Bright Stars Award Show, Jessica reveals to everyone that Olivia is Jackson's girlfriend, infuriating his fans and upsetting Olivia. Charlotte sends Olivia a video of Jessica insulting a fan to get her back, which Ivy plays. Jessica's true self is revealed and her career is ruined. Olivia wins Brightest New Star award and does a speech which endears Jackson's fans to her. She decides she likes Hollywood as long as she remains true to herself.

First off, I'm totally for that idea of working off the days in 2008. It would look better on the timeline if we had some days, even if we're not 100% sure they're right.
OK, so, Love Bites. Impressive cutting down of your original timeline! On the second day, I would say the formal event is a dinner, not a ceremony. On the third day I think it should say "Ivy overhears them discussing poetry, which leads her to believe Alex has a crush on Olivia". I also don't think it's necessary to say Georgia gave Ivy a dress.
For the final day: 'As everyone prepares for the Valentine's Ball that night, the Countess asks Charles if he will escort her to it, but he declines, and Alex asks Olivia, who agrees to go with him as friend. Back in her room, Olivia receives a dress and a romantic note and assumes they're from Alex. Ivy runs into Jackson who has come to surprise Olivia, and who really sent the dress and note. Olivia tells Alex she has a boyfriend and he replies that his heart also belongs to another - he was never romantically interested in Olivia. Jackson comes in, surprises Olivia, and tells her he is moving to Franklin Grove. Later, Ivy discovers Tessa and Alex are in love but that the Queen has forbidden them to be together. However, thanks to Ivy's persuasion, Tessa and Alex enter the Valentines Ball together. The Queen admits that times are changing and perhaps she should be more accepting. In the spirit of togetherness, Charles accompanies his mother and makes up with his parents. Everyone enjoys the ball together.
I know most of these changes are pretty insignificant - what can I say, I'm a perfectionist!
Onto Lucky Break, I think the first day should start with "At Mister Smoothie" - just so we can picture the scene in our heads. Also, I might change the second Saturday to: Back at the farm, Ivy tries to ride on a horse, but as she sits on it, it is spooked by some ducklings. Brendan comes over to comfort her while Olivia and Rebecca go horse-riding. Ivy and Brendan accidentally let Lucky out of the stable and he runs into the woods.
Hope you're not offended by any of my adaptations. Aside from those small thing, I love it! Can't wait to continue with the next books in the series.

In terms of things to add to the profile, I like to think her favourite celebrity is Steven Spielberg. She tricked Charlotte Brown in Take Two (MSTV#5) by pretending to have seen him walking around the movie set, and it comes across in that moment like he's the first celebrity she could think of. And the fact that he's a director of many movies about aliens means I can definitely imagine Camilla admiring him. Oh, and in Secrets and Spies she says she really admires Lillian, as she's a director. So she's a possibility too.
Shall we say her favourite school subject is Drama? She directed a school play in Lucky Break (MSTV#7) and was clearly very passionate about it. Other possibilities might be Media Studies (though we saw her doing this in Fangtastic {MSTV#2} and she didn't seem quite as engaged with it), Science or English.
That brings me to her hobbies, to which I think we should absolutely add reading. I can remember randomly that it mentions once that she can't hang out with Olivia and Ivy because she's moderating an online forum about science fiction or something. That could be added as a hobby: 'participating in online forums about her favourite books'. SOUND FAMILIAR ANYONE??? :D (sorry I had to)
Ooh, another hobby could be watching sci-fi movies. I've already said about Steven Spielberg - if we're assuming she likes his films, then it fits - plus she mentions in Lucky Break that she loves an old space film called Forbidden Planet. You know, actually, we could put that as her favourite movie.
She's gotta be most likely to be found carrying a science-fiction novel! Oh, and this might be too much of the same trait, but I feel like her catchphrase would be any quote about aliens from one of her sci-fi books. That's everything I can think of for now. This is so fun, listing traits of my favourite character!!

Oh, and, if you haven't already guessed, this discussion is OPEN to SPOILERS for any of the MSTV books. If you're not caught up yet, proceed with caution!
One last thing - have fun!

Going back to the Star Style cameo, my favourite moment there has to be this one:
"Come on guys," said Bethany. "Enough of the mushy stuff - I want meet the horses!" [...]
Aunt Rebecca smiled. "My kind of girl," she said to Bethany.
It's also cute when she tells Lillian she thinks they'll be good friends. I looove the book trope of a guy's sister being friends with his partner. This variation on it, with Charles and Rebecca having a complicated background, and Rebecca and Lillian both coming from LA, was so cool to see! I wish we'd gotten more of it in later books. Just talking about this scene though, I think how Rebecca's character was illuminated through her relationships with other characters was truly excellent. She's a brilliant addition to the cast, in my opinion!