Cindy’s Comments (group member since Apr 21, 2011)

Cindy’s comments from the Iris Murdoch group.

Well, is that self-centered, center of the universe way of thinking and behaving an aspect of the human condition? I know we all tell stories about our lives both to ourselves and to others as a way of making sense of things, and as the heroine/hero of our own stories we come out looking the best in any situation ...
What's really interesting is that Murdoch's people can't see or don't see or refuse to see outside the circle of themselves, like they live inside a closed space where they get to control what happens there and who gets to come in, and any consequences or ripple effects stop at the circle boundary. Isolation vs. connection, and we ignore connection at our peril? Or is it the peril of others? Because in all her stories people start getting hurt, even dying sometimes as a consequence of one's center-of-the-universe mentality. And yet they will persist in that selfishness, even when the character knows it will be harmful to self and/or to others.
My my -- I mostly read to find out what happens next. This is more fun. Thanks Brian

I'm reading Henry & Cato now. I've read the others and liked Message to the Planet best on this list.

As I read more and more of Murdoch's work, I think what I find difficult is that her people are so messy, and I don't like messy. I want my stories - and life - to be neat and orderly, and for the people to be nice to each other, and of course, life isn't like that and so why should the stories be either. Which is why I'm such and extreme introvert I imagine.

Enjoy the read.

I do not get Stuart at all. If anybody's got a mental health problem in the story I think it's him, though I'm not sure what it might be. What the heck is his problem anyway?

I'm certainly game for a group read. Tried to get one going in May but didn't have much success. Still I'm starting another poll to choose a group read for an August 1 start date? Check out the poll and we'll see what we can do.

So I just started the book again and already I've noticed that knowing I'm going to be discussing it with others changes the reading experience, and hopefully the change will be a positive one. Anyway, fleeting thoughts about the first few pages:
Edward's potential has been eliminated/terminated by his friend's death and time has come to a stop for him, no future; his stepfather Harry has the "gift of eternal promise". How is that going to play out in the story?
Does the dinner party lay out the basic premise of the story in the conversation about Stuart's decision to leave school and help people, whatever that means?
This is going to be fun.

Looks like it's the Good Apprentice for May. Now I just have to find the time to read the book! Enjoy everybody.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this too. So far The Good Apprentice is leading the votes for May. Will close the poll on 4/30/11.

I like Joann's suggestion for an on line reading group. It's a great way for me to re-read Iris Murdoch's novels and maybe understand and apprecite them a little more. So I'm going ahead and suggesting we choose a book for May, which is only a couple days away but I figure the sooner we start the better. We can also start a poll for June, see how that goes. So...hopefully one book will receive more than one vote and that's the one we'll start with. My suggestion is for "The Good Apprentice" because I've been trying to find the time to re-read this one for a few months now and haven't done it yet.

Saneseeker wrote: "I would imagine anyone not steeped in Englishness would struggle to see the point of Murdoch's writing. As for the similarities between US and UK culture, I would venture that the two nations have ..."

That's what I thought too, little in common outside of the language, and even that is pretty different. It feels like I'm missing the point sometimes because I'm not understanding why the character is behaving this way or making this choice in response to these life situations. The differences are not huge but I do think they are cultural. I understand an American woman's reaction to infidelity even when I totally disagree with her choice or think she's crazy for doing whatever she's chosen to do. But Murdoch's ladies? It's not an instinctual understanding, the narrative has to carry all the weight of explaining/revealing this person to me and what she is trying to say about herself and her life when she chooses to run away with this boy who is not her son. And then she's killed in the cross fire of a shoot out at the airport. Well, that's cool ... what just happened? "Sacred and Profane Love Machine"

And I found The Black Prince one of the hardest to get through. In addition to the The Bell and Under the Net I liked "The Book and the Brotherhood" and "Messge to the Planet".

Saneseeker wrote: "I've not read all her novels but it seems to me that all her characters are 100% ego with little self awareness. I aslo feel a strong misanthropic tendency from her writing."

Reminds me especially of the couple in The Nice and the Good, they were all about themselves. I remember not liking them very much either. Murdoch as a misantrhope though? Hmmm... a lot of her characters may not be nice people or very likeable but I'm thinking that may be because most people are not very likeable, or very nice outside of their own circle. Maybe she is just accurate and more honest in her portrayal of people. I mean, did she ever write a story that had a nice neat Hollywood type ending? Maybe that's why I keep reading her, I don't believe in the happy ending either. Those kids in Lord of the Flies did not get rescued in the end, I don't care what my 7th grade teacher said!

Thanks Ivana. I remember liking Under the Net a lot the first time I read it, it seemed like the most accessible of her novels I had read so far. I'm looking forward to reading it again.

My niece was looking through my bookshelves recently and asked me about the shelf of Murdoch novels I have. I told her I like the books a lot though I hardly ever understand them. I'm kind of hoping that reading comments from others will enlighten me a little. I read for story and she does tell a damn good story. Do you suppose there might be a little cultural barrier? Not only are she and I different generations but also different culture, American vs. UK? Despite the similarities, the differences are in the details maybe? And she is all about the details.