Eli’s Comments (group member since Aug 25, 2017)

Eli’s comments from the Reading for Writers group.

Questions to prompt discussion

How does Chekov use the words, actions, and appearance of the banker lawyer to give his readers clues about his characters' states of mind?

Do you agree with the lawyer that "To live anyhow is better than not at all?"

What is a life worth living?

How do the banker and lawyer “live” their lives during the fifteen-year duration of the bet?

The lawyer writes in his letter, "The geniuses of all ages and of all lands speak different languages, but the same flame burns in them all." What does he mean by this, and is this true?

Do you think this is more effective as a short story than it would have been as an essay?

What makes this a work of fiction and not a philosophical essay?

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/55283/...

In case you haven't seen, this story is available for free on The Project Gutenberg. Enjoy!

Rufaro wrote: "The narration was almost like an acquaintance telling us a story about somebody that they used to know. Skimming the story, when I read this question, I initially thought that it was written in thi..."

Hi Rufaro, glad you liked this one. I can't say how close to Gogol the narrator is, but the narrator of his short story 'The Nose' is pretty similar in feel, only more absurd. It's about a man whose nose goes missing...

In Russian literature from the 19th century it is quite common to break from the narrative to remind the reader that what you're reading comes from an author, but what's interesting is that this seldom takes you away from the scene. I feel if lesser authors were to attempt it, they might disengage us by breaking that suspended sense of disbelief.

I feel Gogol, like his successors, is very skilled at focusing on aspects of humanity that are realistic and revealing. Adaki and his world are strange to a degree, but the Russia presented is not a meritocracy. Adaki works hard but his dedication doesn't pay off. We are reminded that his tailor was a freed serf. Those in his work place eat only what their financial situations allow them to. All this injustice is tempered with the strange story of a man who wants a coat, eventually gets it and briefly becomes the happiest man alive before dying and haunting the city until he is able to deal with those who wronged him. It feels almost comical to read (much like The Nose). At the same time, I resonated a lot with Adaki; I too have had that short-lived feeling of finally having something you've saved up for for a long time. Like you say, Adaki does become more assertive towards the end (especially in death). His story does in a way paint society as quite bleak, a place where people will only care when the weight of their conscience is too much to bear. For me the combination of the comical with the realism definitely made this feeling more haunting.

Bulgakov does this too (combining the absurd with realism/a social message, I mean), though authors like Tolstoy and Dosteyevsky have instead concentrated on the realism (injustices, human fallibility) and psychology (in particular the latter) of their characters and situations.

If you liked the Overcoat I really recommend you read The Namesake, a novel by Jhumpa Lahiri. If you get around to it feel free to discuss here :)

A few questions to start us off, feel free to add your own.

1. What is the role of the narrator in this story? How would the story have been different if it were told in the third person? How much like or unlike Gogol do you think the narrator is?

2. This story has been mentioned in Chekhov and Dostoyevsky's fiction--why do you think it left such a lasting impression in Russian literature? Why has it been so influential?

3. To what extent is the Overcoat an act of the author "letting himself go"?

4. How effective was the use of allegory in this short story?

This month we will be reading The Library of Babel" (originally published in Spanish: La biblioteca de Babel), a short story by Argentine author Jorge Luis Borges.

The plot conceives of a universe in the form of a vast library containing all possible 410-page books of a certain format and character set.

Group discussion: May 25th-31st

April takes us to Argentina, where we'll be reading one of the most well-known short stories by one of the most celebrated Argentine writers, Julio Cortázar.

This 1946 short story was originally published in Los anales de Buenos Aires, a literary magazine edited by Jorge Luis Borges, and later included in his volume of stories Bestiario.

Group discussion: April 23rd-30th

Anton Chekhov is considered to be among the greatest writers of short fiction in history. Let's see why.

This month we're reading "The Bet", one of his most famous short stories about a banker and a young lawyer who make a bet with each other about whether the death penalty is better or worse than life in prison.

Group discussion: 25th-31st March

"We all come out from Gogol's 'Overcoat'" -- a quote often attributed to one of the greatest writers of all time, Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

Whether he said it or not, many of the great Russian writers were influenced by Ukranian-Russian writer Gogol. Contemporary writers such as Jhumpa Lahiri and Vladamir Nabokov too.

Though this is a short story, not a novel, it gives a good taste of Gogol's style and anticipates what is to come in the next few decades of Russian literature.

Group discussion between 20th-28th February.

Rufaro wrote: "Hi everyone, sorry the last couple of days have just slipped away from me. I'll start by answering you questions, Elizabeth because I really liked them.

1) I feel as though Donoghue made such bri..."

Hi Rufaro, thanks for sharing your thoughts on Room!

Glad you liked the questions and sorry for being slow with this!

I’ll respond to your points numerically as it’s easier :)

1. I agree—I felt it prevented it from becoming something akin to ‘poverty porn;’ we can imagine the ordeal Ma is going through but not to the point that it is graphic or invasive. By telling it from Jack’s perspective, it’s a completely different story—almost comparable to the Matrix (though obviously the feeling and backdrop is very different). I found the part interesting where Jack’s grandmother was watching television and saw academics discussing Jack—one said something like “Maybe we’re all Jack”—the grandmother remarked “they’ve just spent too much time at university.” But it made me think—maybe we are to a degree. We only know the part of the world we reside in—we are restricted by our income, social class, ethnicity, gender and so many categories that have been predetermined, and not by us. It’s interesting how our vocabularies and thought processes are so influenced by our immediate environments. Jack’s ‘room’ is limited—but aren’t we all limited by the space we can occupy in the world?

It’s interesting that you feel the language is realistic having had experience working in a school. I haven’t read other books written like this either. My childhood in some ways doesn’t seem too far gone, but when I try to reimagine the ways I said things or thought them, I can’t—I just recall abstract words and images—a general sense of the place. And nowadays I don’t see other children often. I wonder whether Donoghue has children. I’m sure some words and phrases were taken from life. Agree that the way he saw his mother as ‘gone’ was effective. Children often know more than we think they do.

2. Kind of answered this above—but yes it would have definitely have been darker. She knew the outside world so we would probably often hear about her memories of it. And those moments in which Jack said Ma was 'gone' would be very bleak.

3. I also empathised with Ma and her ability to give Jack a relatively normal life in captivity. That interviewer who asked whether she thought it were morally right to keep her child in captivity was insensitive; these are often the type of questions journalists ask though. Had I been Ma, I would not have trusted that her kidnapper would take Jack to safety. I think it’s natural that a mother wants to stay with her baby. Few humans would have done otherwise given the circumstances.

4. I asked this question because I work in the industry and often have a real problem with what makes it through to print. Regularly you’ll see photographs of sex slaves, causalities of war or catastrophe, women who have suffered abuse in developing countries and so on. The exposure they get and questions victims are asked would never happen in Europe. It’s hard as editors know what sells—schadenfreude. But viewers are at risk of becoming desensitised to images of violence—and victims seldom have a say (or gain a profit) from photographs and interviews of them which are published internationally.

It’s strange, but the more work I see and do in this field, the more I feel that perhaps people do not need to know what is happening in the world. Often people will tell you about mass statistics, and while it sounds terrible, it’s hard to really extend your empathy to so many unknown numbers.

Maybe we do need to know what is happening in the world, but perhaps fiction would be a more ethical medium through which to tell it. Then we would not see victims going through traumatic events—likely the last thing they’d like in that moment is a photograph of them on the front of Time or the Daily Mail covered in blood, sweat and tears—but read about stories that represent an event/movement and induce empathy in readers. I know some coverage is good to encourage aid to come in or to encourage political intervention e.g. in the case of Grenfell tower earlier this year.

5. Think I answered this at the beginning of the first question inadvertently!

6. I ask myself this when I occasionally lookup stories of long-term confinement and strange cases of serial murder. Why am I so interested? Is it my own means of satisfying a need for schadenfreude? Or perhaps I’m interested in what human beings are capable of doing to one another. I get scared watching horror movies or reading certain novels, but these kind of real life stories are perhaps the most unsettling. People like Old Nick could be your neighbour and you might never know. And then I suppose all stories, or at least the vast majority of them, often contain suffering. But also hope.

Rufaro wrote: "I'm ready when you all are :) welcome new members :D"

Feel free to lead the discussion, Rufaro! What were your thoughts reading this?

We have some new members, so let's push back discussion of 'Room' to the 30th September.

How are you all doing with this one?

Rufaro wrote: "These are all fantastic questions and I can't wait to delve into them more deeply. Where did you get the questions, or did you make them up yourself?

I'll get answering on the 25th so I don't put..."

I got a two of them off other book clubs (the first and second), made up the rest :)

Looking forward to discussing this one!

To get the ball rolling, here are a few questions ahead of the 25th for us to think about:

1. Why do you think the story is told entirely in Jack's voice? Do you think it is effective? Do you think the child's voice that narrates the story is realistic?

2. How would the book be different if it were told in Ma's voice?

3. Do you think it was morally okay for Ma to keep her son in 'room'?

4. This raises questions about the ethics of journalism. To what extent do the rest of the world need to know about the tragic stories of individuals? Is it more or less effective to read about this through fiction than through journalism?

5. Room is part-based on a topical news story. In what way is Jack's story universal?

6. Why are we so fascinated by stories of long-term confinement?

Rufaro wrote: "Has anyone read 'The Secret History' by Donna Tartt? I heard it's pretty great and I really enjoyed her other book 'The Goldfinch' that I read recently."

I haven't read anything by Donna Tartt though heard good things about Goldfinch. Let's schedule it for sometime early next year :)

Rufaro wrote: "Hi Elizabeth,


I'll get to reading. My goodreads app doesn't send me notifications so I saw this by chance. I'll make sure to check from now on. This book sounds great

X"

Yes heard good things about this one! :) Great!

Hi Anna,

I read the Vegetarian--it's pretty good! Quite different narrative style to most books I've read. That would be a good one to read at some point during the next year.

I'm also interested in the Essex Serpent--it's 'headlining' the Women's Writing Festival this month in Yorkshire (at the Brontë Parsonage.) I'm considering going. How about we read this for October?

https://www.bronte.org.uk/whats-on/44...

Hi Everyone and welcome,

The first book to read on our list is 'Room' by Irish-Canadian Emma Donoghue.

Scottish writer Kirsty Logan cites Emma Donoghue as one of her two main influencers; let's find out why.

Goodreads description of 'Room':

"To five-year-old-Jack, Room is the world....

Told in the inventive, funny, and poignant voice of Jack, Room is a celebration of resilience - and a powerful story of a mother and son whose love lets them survive the impossible.

To five-year-old Jack, Room is the entire world. It is where he was born and grew up; it's where he lives with his Ma as they learn and read and eat and sleep and play. At night, his Ma shuts him safely in the wardrobe, where he is meant to be asleep when Old Nick visits.

Room is home to Jack, but to Ma, it is the prison where Old Nick has held her captive for seven years. Through determination, ingenuity, and fierce motherly love, Ma has created a life for Jack. But she knows it's not enough...not for her or for him. She devises a bold escape plan, one that relies on her young son's bravery and a lot of luck. What she does not realize is just how unprepared she is for the plan to actually work.

Told entirely in the language of the energetic, pragmatic five-year-old Jack, Room is a celebration of resilience and the limitless bond between parent and child, a brilliantly executed."

When recommending books please mention the book title and author. If you've already read it, no spoilers please, though a sentence or two about your choice would be helpful.