Morena’s Comments (group member since Jul 17, 2019)

Morena’s comments from the Bodice Ripper Readers Anonymous group.

Lauren wrote: "Morena, Goodread shows a third book but no picture. I would have loved to continue the story with the 1st book characters. :(
I understand why you like him.Roger Mortimer was definitely an interes..."

Thank you for the rec. Already have that book in my TBR. While I don't like Kamada's prose and her main characters, she had done some things right and didn't shy away from hard, disturbing scenes. It's weird how her books are completely obscure. I came across her work purely by chance. I guess no publisher has rights to her works so it cannot even be republished electronically. I think she also wrote this book
Where nobles tread The book is also set in the 14th century and the writers name, Janet Kilbourne, is too close to Kamada's hero name, James Kilburn, to be a coincidence. But this book is also completely gone. Nowhere to be found.

Lauren wrote: "I just read A Love So Bold but the 2nd book sounds terrible. Are the orginal characters in the book? I wonder if i can skip this book and just read the 3rd book, except i can't find it. Do you know if was ever published?..."

I don't think that there is a third book. I only read this for Roger Mortimer. Once he is out I am out :)

In one dark romance group someone was looking for a book where a pious nun is kidnapped from a convent. Two books were recommended, but I have no idea if they are any good:

His Wicked Ways by Samantha James
A Dove at Midnight by Rexanne Becnel

Has anyone read Annelise's Kamada trilogy "Hiraeth"? It's set during the reign of Edward II. The main heroine is gentle (for the most part) so you may enjoy that bit. I am on the second book now A Banner Red and Gold. I like that this is also a historical fiction with political conflict, but the prose is overwritten, there are wonky transitions, silly descriptions, boring main characters... which is a pity because the BR scenes are raunchy, and I enjoy Kamada's portrayal of Queen Isabella and Roger Mortimer. I'll share with you one BR scene that made me nostalgic for good old BRs. (this is an abridged version of the scene)

"I warned you, you damn slut, that I owned you till I was done with you. You were to give yourself to no one else---no one!"....His hand lashed out, striking her face a stinging blow.
Her head snapped back with the force of a second blow and the pain brought tears to her eyes..... Still [clutching] the goblet in her hand, she threw its content [at his face]... 
Wiping the wine from his livid face, he saw her eyes blazing with hurt fury and in that instant he forgot Isabella. He reached out for her, tangling his fingers in her long hair to pull her flailing body back. She fought him with all the strength she had, but he slammed her down hard, pinning her to the bed with one knee. 
"Whoreson!..." She screeched at him. "No woman is safe from your lustful appetite---yet you dare accuse me of the same...Do you also believe such behavior from your lady when you leave her for so long time? I hear she is most comely. I'm sure there are many men who would gladly share her bed." Jehan burst into tears as he caught hold of her with hard ungentle hands.
His face livid with rage, the dark eyes glowing with murderous light. "Never mention my wife to me... she has naught to do with you...naught!" His wine drenched hair fell about the high cheekbones in sodden disorder and his mouth drew back in a furious snarl as Jehan fought his hands, bruising her...

You can guess what he does to her next :)

I call these heroines chin-thrusters and the only reason why I've finished some of these romances were the heroes. I am also on the lookout for medieval romances where the heroine is a normal woman that fits the time-period, and not some willful, fiercely independent primadonna. The only medieval romance where the heroine behaved gently and was of quiet nature was Bond of Blood
I still gave it a low rating because Gellis's prose reads clunky to me.

I've enjoyed only 2 books by Coulter, most of her books are fail for me, but the heroine in Earth Song was tolerable and amusing,

Eliza wrote: "The Dark Lord....lord that book. I hated it 😁 Not because it was dark, that's actually what drew me in. It was just bad. Bad writing, bad characters, BAD cover.

Thank you for all the suggestions!..."

LOL I just looked at that cover. Pumped-up sausage in micro-miny. I am aware that published authors have no say what graphics are used for their covers (though maybe Le Vegue did), and it shows. They used to get it right when using Tom Hall's illustrations.

Caro ♡ Hot Mess Sommelière wrote: "doesn't angelique have a tv series or movies too?"

Yes there is a TV series from the 60s that could help as an introduction to the plot. Recently a remake has been made and my god like everything done today it was a sort of cringe I cannot stomach. The casting was horrid too (they picked a guy who was probably 70 to play de Peyrac)

By the way has anyone seen The last Duel? On one hand, I am scared to see it because I am sure Ridley Scott has bastardized history for the modern audience, but on the other I want to watch Adam Driver playing a bodice-ripping rapist and then fighting a duel to prove his innocence. I would love to read a BR based on this historical event sans all the annoying modernization.

Meredith, Empress of the Sock Puppet Army wrote: "I want to read Angelique but book 1 in that series is so difficult to ..."

The story is linear and follows her life as it unwraps through the years, so I recommend reading it in order. I was lucky that my mom had most of the books in this series. Unfortunately she didn't have Silver Devil so I'll probably never get to read that one.

Eliza wrote: "They definitely need a term because modern historical sounds like an oxymoron and NA historical romance isn’t it either."

actually I find "modern historical" fitting since these books use history like a cheap prop for their very much boring, modern characters. haha we could call it Modern "Historical" :)

Joking aside, I haven't seen Angelique by Anne Golon recommended (it's a long series) There is no graphic sex, but there is lots of bodice ripping. One of the men in Angelique's life starts of as her enemy. This aristocrat treats her like a peasant wench and looks down on her even though she is his cousin. I loved him haha. If I remember correctly there was a scene involving a riding crop, but I don't remember who used it on whom.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

Caro ♡ Hot Mess Sommelière wrote: "@Morena

You're right, many are badly written and most are self-published. However the genre is not niche; the most popular ones (such as CJ Roberts' Dark Duet) are huge bestsellers. It is probably..."
I think, it's because these self-righteous people who hate BR, don't read dark mafia romances, they read historical romances, and they want "their" genre to be clean and in line with their sensibilities. They are sadly in majority. The big following that some of the N/A dark romances get is made up mostly of people who don't read historical romances, otherwise these readers would demand more gritty, subversive themes in HR and some writers would accommodate that.
If there was a BR published now, and lets say it was well written and history was captured as accurately as possible, and there were thousands of us who loved it, perhaps things would change.

Caro ♡ Hot Mess Sommelière wrote: "On the topic of authors no longer writing content such as rape/dubious consent/violence against women/abuse from the hero/kidnapping etc. and readers reading those ....


The genre "Dark Romance" b..." I have picked up some taboo dark romances but if I remember correctly, they were self-published, and usually poorly written. No bigger publisher would touch those and some of these books cannot be even sold on Amazon. So technically if someone wants to write BR with age-gap, kidnapping and rape they can, but they just have to self-pub. The only issue is when one of those self-righteous assholes who love to use words like "problematic" and "misogynist" and "toxic" decide to make the author's life hell, they can. And that is terrible. There is so much I cannot stand about YA, and the HR romances written today, but I don't go trolling the authors, or the readers who love that boring crap.
I also wish that readers who spew nonsense like this "The unfortunate truth is that historically men have been misogynistic and treated women like chattel," would only stick to Julia Quinn and her ilk, because they know nothing about history and psychology, they demonstrate an empathy of a two-year-old incapable to comprehend a zeitgeist of another era where people behaved exactly as they should to survive, but alas these Betty Crackers are out there and they will give low rating to a well written and well-researched book because some historical facet, or "toxicity" of a male character offended them and the heroine didn't share their own 21st century values.

Caro ♡ Hot Mess Sommelière wrote: "maybe we need a BR and Neo BR book club, with a new buddy read and discussion thread every two months or so."

I would like a group where we could also discuss the themes that we would like to see in books. If someone knows of a book that has those themes they can recommended it, or someone could write it :) I assume we could discuss those themes without fear of being shamed, or reported by PC police :)

Debby*BabyDee wrote: "Morena wrote: "Flowers from the Storm by Laura Kinsale is a bit BR I think."
Laura Kinsale is an odd one. I loved For My Lady's Heart from Medieval Hearts set, but could not get past chapter one of the second book in this set.
I'll check out Schone :)

Love this thread. I feel I can never find a book that I could enjoy so I just reread the old books, but you guys threw in some authors I haven't heard of so will have to check out some of these books.
In regard to the definitions of bodice-ripper and neo-bodice-ripper I would just say that the genre calls for "antihero" rather than a "hero" but that may be my own wishful thinking :) since heroes bore me. (Except for Aragorn haha)
I love that you included historically accurate "mindset" in the definition. Far too many writers completely ignore it in favour of making the heroine superwoman and the hero "21st century detoxed mxn"

I am on a writing site and quite often there are posts by writers who ask how to write a certain scene so they don't offend such and such group of people. No wonder these books coming out today are so nauseatingly boring, predictable and downright stupid. I read historical romance to escape reality, but paradoxically I want the time period and the character to feel as real as possible because only then I can immerse myself in the story. I love books that don't shy from the dark side of humanity, it's part of us, why pretend it doesn't exist? It's presumptions of all those loud virtue signaling readers and publishers to assume that all women are made of sugar fluff and would combust if presented with books that have "problematic" content. It's so demeaning. I felt that Fifty shades, other than being horribly written, with zero characterization wasn't dark at all. I mean he had her sign forms that she agreed to be his sub. He was just a big softy who tried to end world hunger. Miss Oklahoma probably inspired some of the lines in the book) I would wipe a floor with a man like that. But fine some readers want to feel safe even in a red room, and I would never take it away from them. I am just angry that these moralists are deciding what type of romances should be published and what has to stomped out of existence. Sadly they are probably in majority, because ultimately publishers just want to make money.

I am happy to see that bodicerippers are waking up from their slumber :)

I have only seen the german-french series about the Borgias and that was so good, so raw, I didn't care for the American version. And yes I would say it's as good as the HBO's Rome.
I hope that Netflix didn't botch the Borgias as they botched the Medici. When I saw the snot-face they'd cast as Lorenzo de Medici, I couldn't watch past 2 episodes. I also heard the whole show was like a teenage soap-opera, and from the little I've seen I can only agree.
Here is a German series, also set in late 15th century, that looks promising
https://youtu.be/0qDMMmn8Sk8

Mel wrote: "Daddy's Girl by Janet Inglis

This is a controversial book from the 1970's, it is not a romance as such, more a coming of age book. It is better written than lot of books aimed at the dark reads ma..."

I agree, the writing is good because Inglis actually captures the feelings of a 15 year old girl honestly and truthfully. Nicholas is perfect alpha. If he was cast in medieval era he would be having a pick of young novices in a convent.

So the consensus is we need a dark bodice ripper subgenre that is historically accurate. For myself I would add, well written with solid characterization otherwise no matter how accurate your historical detail, it's going to fall apart if the writing is clumsy and the characters are one dimensional. Since the publishers cater only to the brainwashed masses, are there any indie writers that write what we here are looking for?

I think it all comes down to the heroine's personality, and how she acts. Some heroines act like they are 14, and the author spells out 17 or 18 just to pacify the PC police among the readers.
I, too, recommend Forbidden Love by Karen Robards. The heroine acted like a spoiled child for the most part. In my mind she was 14 for about 90% of the book.

I was going to recommend Lady Of Fire up until I reached the last quarter of the book and gave up. Such a shame, especially, when the characters were practically begging the author to take the plot down the dark path.
You have a standard, run of the mill hero, Roger, half-brother of our heroine, Eleanor, who was surprisingly reasonable and capable of self-reflection even when she was cranky (which is rare among the strong+feisty heroines). My interest was piqued as sparks flew between Roger and his sister!!! Eleanor. When the delicious antihero, Count Robert, entered the scene I was hooked completely, willing to forgive wonky pacing, and repetitive phrasing like “Jesu, she is beautiful, Jesu, she is small,” and all the unnecessary nays, arts, and ayes…
I was ready to follow the terrified heroine to the pits of hell or wherever the depraved Robert might take her, but alas... (view spoiler)[Instead, I was forced to follow the perfect, gentle Gary Stew who conveniently turned out not to be Eleanor’s brother. Reading about Roger was like following around a boring golden retriever while the depraved, tortured, scary antihero, Robert, was denigrate to a role of a stupid villain. (hide spoiler)]
Why are the writers afraid of antiheroes? Just set the book under the dark romance tag and go with it. Antiheroes are interesting, scary, exciting. Isn’t that enough to give them the lead stage? I am sick of all these boring golden retrievers. Give me the wolf:)
If there is a book where the lead is a depraved, tortured, scary antihero like Robert I am all ears.