Lee’s Comments (group member since Jan 22, 2011)

Lee’s comments from the Truth Seekers group.

Mark, I don't see anything in 1 Cor 15:54-56 about hell. You might have to interpret for me. Paul's understanding about the afterlife for bad fellas seems summed up in his statement, "the wages of sin is death." Centuries later, this would be called the annihilation theory.

I'm happy to tone down my analogy if you're also toning down the way hell works. Maybe you have a kinder, gentler hell in mind.

Hi, Mark, it's possible to trace the evolution of ideas about Sheol through the Bible, and through non-canonical scriptures like 1 Enoch. (We have to take these extra scriptures seriously, because N.T. writers like Jude and Revelation did.) It's also possible to see Hellenistic ideas merging with Hebrew ideas. The story of Lazarus and the rich man sounds more Hellenistic ... more like Hades than Sheol. And, of course, the ideas continued to evolve through the centuries of Christian development.

differing opinions in the N.T. don't bolster my confidence that anyone really knew, either. Paul didn't believe in hell.

It's just that the more I studied, the more it seemed every ancient writer had a different opinion.

Here is a fun overview: http://www.dubiousdisciple.com/2010/1...

Cherie, suppose you have a loving, compassionate father, and you dote on him. Everybody loves him.

One day, you discover he has a prisoner chained in his basement, where he tortures him day and night. What would you do?

You might try to understand. You might next try to set him free. You might then try to reason with your father. You might eventually come to despise your father. One thing I guarantee, though, is that you would not remain unchanged.

I know that, Mark! Thanks for the welcome.

No, I've never read "Silence on Fire," Dan. I'll check it out, thanks!

omg...we deserve hell? Have you ever studied what hell is like? for 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years?

I don't despise God! Not unless you try to convince me that God is going to banish even one person to hell. Then, yes, I would despise him.

Perhaps God isn't going to. I've talked with some Christians who believe God is powerless to save people who won't save themselves; by believing God would never purposefully send anyone to hell, they escape the disturbing conclusion that God is evil.

Here is what I think: Most Christians find God to be good and loving, and that doesn't jibe at all with what the scriptures say about hell, so they ignore hell and assume all will somehow be well. That's fine, if you're able.

Mark, some of my research went into the evolution of our ideas about hell. What did first-century people (Jew and Greek, mostly) believe before Christ? How did those ideas evolve into what's written in the New Testament? How did the ideas continue to evolve through Christian history?

You begin to realize these are human ideas. Thank God, huh? It would be sickening to imagine that God planned that stuff.

A carrot works better than a stick. At least, that's my experience.

Cherie, there has never been a person in the history of the world who deserves hell. But the scripture is clear: few that be that find the true way. I went through some serious depression. I would walk down the street and look into the eyes of people I knew were probably going to hell, and would want to throw up. I sometimes wondered if the point of life was to bring me to the point where I would pray that God would drop the idea of hell. Was I supposed to offer to take the place of sinners in hell, so they could go free? I prayed the words, but insincerely, because I detested the idea of heaven just as much: how could anyone be happy living with a God who would banish people to hell?

I talked to ministers about it, and eventually gave up. It's like Christians are taught to ignore the evil of hell and think only about heaven. But I couldn't, so I spent years studying religion, history, science, archaeology, cosmology, studies of life after death, trying to figure out how much of the Bible was true. It's been quite a journey.

Want another guy? Mark already introduced me in another thread as a liberal Christian who "doesn't get hung up on religious or supernatural beliefs." I read anything religious (usually Christian or Judaic but not necessarily) if it makes me think, which often means it's in historical context and well-researched. Usually nonfiction.

I run a book review blog at www.dubiousdisciple.com so if there are authors in this group, and you think your book(s) would interest me, definitely look me up!

I've written one book religious book, which was actually just published. It's a historical-critical interpretation of revelation written as a novel: www.thewayithappened.com

Thanks for the welcome, Mark! I see there's no flying under the radar here! :)

You get right to the crux of the matter when you discuss spending an eternity in Hell; that is the very doctrine that most disturbed me and led me ultimately to a more liberal Christian perspective.

So, yes, a humanitarian (eg: here and now) appreciation naturally grows stronger in a Christian who has lost faith in eternal reward or punishment.