Vicky’s Comments (group member since Jan 12, 2016)

Vicky’s comments from the Catholic Thought group.

Madeleine wrote: "I recommend the website praymorenovenas.com, John Paul and Annie of EWTN are the authors, and email subscription is free. Today they are beginning a Novena for Difficult Times, which these certainl..."
I'm praying with them,Madeleine!-I have also loved the online retreats they have done over the years. :)

Manny wrote: "In the footnotes of my E. Allison Peers translation Osuna and his book are cited in the third chapter of the fourth mansion. It's online, so you can read it here:
http://www.catholictreasury.info/b..."

Thank you,Manny.I had found the wikipedia but was unfamiliar with the Catholic treasury site-nice footnotes! :)

I first heard this book mentioned in the Spanish mini series "Teresa De Jesus"about the life of St Teresa of Avila, which starred Concha Velasco as Teresa.
In episode one,several of Teresa's books had to be burnt, on the general order of Fernando de Valdés,then the Archbishop of Seville and Inquisitor General.
I have since found out that the Inquisitor had published an "Index of Forbidden books" in 1559.Among them were some of the works of Erasmus, Louis of Granada,Saint Francisco de Borja,Juan de Ávila and Francisco De Osuna.
All these authors were very popular and very influential in their day but many were regarded as heterodox-ie having opinions or doctrines at variance with an official or orthodox position.I have also noticed that many of them were in correspondence with each other which I personally think may have made the Inquisition uneasy.Might they have represented a new 'power base', to rival Rome? That's my best guess on why the books were banned,but it is only based on what I have gleaned so far.Our Spanish members may know more.
What fascinated me about The Third Spiritual Alphabet-were some of the concepts that de Osuna introduced Teresa to,for example,he mentions the heart as being like 'a castle' which must be kept well guarded.I have found a thought-provoking reflection on what Teresa learned from Francesco De Osuna on www.meditationsfromcarmel.com hopefully this link will open it up: :http://www.meditationsfromcarmel.com/...

Susan Margaret wrote: "In the first paragraph on the Second Mansions, Teresa mentions something that I think all of us on Goodreads – Catholic Thought have in common and that is, “…most of us never get tired of the multi..."

So many books Teresa read and found meaningful were hunted down-often burned-in her lifetime by the Inquisition.I got hold of an English translation of the Third Spiritual Alphabet by Francisco De Osuna which was originally on their 'hit list'.I'm not sure where the first and second 'Spiritual Alphabets' got to but this is a very weighty book in it's own right.I wonder if anyone has read it?I've gifted mine to our local Dominican sisters and hope eventually to have someone to discuss it with.One thing's for sure,it will take some time to read and dijest.

I have just finished Turgenev's Fathers and Sons-a really thoughtful study of different generations in a Russian family.It was both thought provoking and reassuring.I am now half way through Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky.

When I started reading this book,I will admit that I was very drawn to 'live' the process -to make the interior journey -but as I prayed about it I felt that to truly enter in might be very challenging.It might mean,for example, letting go things which are arguably very good,even very spiritual and godly-a little bit like Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac.If I am honest,my 'Isaac' is my pursuit of God through study.It seemed as if,to go deeper, it might be necessary to think -and that may not even be the right word-'out of the box.'I am stumbling around for words,but this poem of John of the Cross-who was spiritually very close to Teresa best describes the direction one might be going in:

“I came into the unknown
and stayed there unknowing
rising beyond all science.

I did not know the door
but when I found the way,
unknowing where I was,
I learned enormous things,
but what I felt I cannot say,
for I remained unknowing,
rising beyond all science.

It was the perfect realm
of holiness and peace.
In deepest solitude
I found the narrow way:
a secret giving such release
that I was stunned and stammering,
rising beyond all science.

I was so far inside,
so dazed and far away
my senses were released
from feelings of my own.
My mind had found a surer way:
a knowledge of unknowing,
rising beyond all science.

And he who does arrive
collapses as in sleep,
for all he knew before
now seems a lowly thing,
and so his knowledge grows so deep
that he remains unknowing,
rising beyond all science.

The higher he ascends
the darker is the wood;
it is the shadowy cloud
that clarified the night,
and so the one who understood
remains always unknowing,
rising beyond all science.

This knowledge by unknowing
is such a soaring force
that scholars argue long
but never leave the ground.
Their knowledge always fails the source:
to understand unknowing,
rising beyond all science.

This knowledge is supreme
crossing a blazing height;
though formal reason tries
it crumbles in the dark,
but one who would control the night
by knowledge of unknowing
will rise beyond all science.

And if you wish to hear:
the highest science leads
to an ecstatic feeling
of the most holy Being;
and from his mercy comes his deed:
to let us stay unknowing,
rising beyond all science.”

If this is the journey,the experience of contemplative prayer and meditation would seem a likely way in.I agree that repentance,too,would be an inevitability.It has also occurred to me that the way in might also include a degree of suffering.Thomas Merton seems to think this an essential when drawing near God-remembering his conclusions at the end of The Seven Storey Mountain. Hannah Hurnard in her book Hinds Feet in High Places showed how,in following after her Shepherd her spiritual companions "Sorrow and Suffering" might one day become known as "Grace and Glory."No doubt in reading further,I will discover what Teresa has to say on the subject.

Susan Margaret wrote: "Just thought I would mention that discerninghearts.com has a podcast of the entire Interior Castle book. In case anyone is interested here is the link:

http://www.discerninghearts.com/catho......"
Thank you for the link,I'm enjoying listening to the podcast which is very well read.

As a new group member I can immediately say how excited I am to approach a spiritual work in this way.It's a little like going on pilgrimage!A few years ago I visited Our Lady's Shrine at Little Walsingham and happened to see on the notice board of Our Lady Of The Annunciation that their Catholic Reading group was studying The Interior Castle.I so wished I could be one of them!

In answer to Doreen's wondering how we might make our way through the mansions I will admit that once I'd have tried to find my own way with whatever knowledge I thought I had or could glean,but now,in my fifties,I'd hope to be a bit wiser. Remembering Teresa's doubts about writing anything at all in her poor state of health and then reflecting on the extraordinary quality of the work which she went on to produce while leaning heavily on her Saviour,I'm inclined to remember the words of another Therese-this time of Lisieux :
" We live in an age of inventions. We need no longer climb laboriously up flights of stairs; in well-to-do houses there are lifts.... I was determined to find a lift to carry me to Jesus, for I was far too small to climb the steep stairs of perfection. So I sought in holy Scripture some idea of what this life I wanted would be, and I read these words: "Whosoever is a little one, come to me." It is your arms, Jesus, that are the lift to carry me to heaven. And so there is no need for me to grow up: I must stay little and become less and less."/b>

Like the Little Flower,I suspect that Our Lord will carry us!

Mike wrote: "Just finished "finding sanctuary" by Abbot Christopher Jamison.

I found this book to be a very good read. The first half of the book was excellent; the final chapters slowed too much. The notion o..."

A lovely book-thanks for sharing it .I must admit it does remind me of "The Desert in the City" a retreat plan by Italian Little Brother of Jesus (and ardent follower of Charles de Foucauld) Carlo Carretto. Both authors strive to bring the monastic experience to ordinary people.
As far as I am aware,Abbot Chris Jamison from Worth Abbey in West Sussex spent some time in a bookshop pouring over a mountain of "self help' publications when it slowly dawned on him that the Benedictine order to which he belonged could surely do as well -if not better-than some in offering people a personal Sanctuary where they could find peace and spiritual growth.I think the book got a kick start in my country after a very successful series known as "The Monastery" which was broadcast by the BBC in 2005.I suspect that The US had it's own version of this unusual-and very powerful reality series where several men who were not necessarily religious, spent a period of time in a place of religious retreat.The results,as I recall,were very interesting indeed,filmed with great integrity by producers Gabe Solomon and Dollan Cannell.I note on the Abbey website that retreats of all sorts are still popular there:

http://worthabbey.fluencycms.co.uk/Th...

Galicius wrote: "Manny wrote: "I'm currently reading Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky. He's not Catholic, but like most of Dostoevsky's work it's very Christian. I have to say this is one of the greatest n..."

I read The Brothers Karamazov years ago and was profoundly affected by it.Dostoevsky certainly wasn't frightened to challenge attitudes in popular culture.I will admit to being intrigued about his own story.Like you,I have the firm belief that this author was a strong Christian.

Irene wrote: "My pastor received it as a Christmas gift from the Bishop. He is not a big reader and I am currently leading a study of the Gospel of John at the parish. So, he passed it to me to look through."
I see you have put it to good use already!I may invest in this book myself.I like the format.I notice,too,that it is part of a series which looks equally interesting.Thank you for telling us about it. :)

Irene wrote: "I just finished
The Gospel of John by Francis Martin & William Wright

This study of the Gospel of John combined solid textual commentary with side notes containing excerpts from the Catechism of t..."

I had a peep at this on Amazon,Irene.It looks very thorough.Are you using it for a course?I ask this because I am studying myself-mostly Catechesis.

I am reading a translation by Mirabai Starr,by way of a change. :)