Chris’s Comments (group member since Jun 16, 2019)

Chris’s comments from the Historian's Guild group.

Wow! Courageous call by GS. I've read a lot about the Civil War but this is an aspect I've never thought about. At first blush I tend to agree with Jeffrey. Gettysburg was a last gasp by the Confederacy to win a battle in the North and press for peace. There is no question that a general of Jackson's caliber might have made the difference and turned the battle in favor of the Confederacy. But the points Jeffrey made would still be valid. They were running out of manpower and ammunition. But it might have allowed them to prolong the war which would have affected the 1864 elections. It's interesting to think about the ripple effect of Lincoln losing at Gettysburg and then losing the election to McCllelan. Would slavery have been prolonged? How different would our country look now? Kind of mind blowing.

Very interesting. Just marked "To Read".

If that is the helmet British soldiers wore in "Gunga Din" in the campaigns against the Thuggees, I'm all in! I'm not sure of its effectiveness in battle but it makes a great fashion statement with the ladies. Of course, it also helps if the user resembles Cary Grant or Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. Wait. GS did you buy one to impress the ladies?

That doesn't sound right. Not questioning you Jeffrey and I'm sure that's what Larson is saying but I just finished the William Manchester trilogy about Churchill who spent the 1930s imploring the Prime Ministers and their cabinets to build up England's defenses. To little avail. The public was in a pacifist mood having lost so many young men during the Great War. King George VI also didn't want another war, particularly during his reign. Chamberlain appeased Hitler for these reasons but also because England was so ill prepared to oppose Hitler. Oddly enough, JFK makes these points in "Why England Slept" which he wrote just as the war was beginning. He had been in England observing and studying while his father was Ambassador to the Court of St. James. I'm going to have to jump on this book as soon as I can. When I didn't get any feedback from the group I started reading "Vicksburg". I'll catch up. Keep us posted, Jeffrey.

Just to follow-up on the group reading suggestion by Jeffrey, he had suggested reading "The Pioneers" by David McCullough. Rather than let the suggestion die maybe we can jump-start the discussion with my review of "The Pioneers" from a few months back. Have at it gang!

"The Pioneers" gets a 3.75 rating which is just about right. Written with all the enthusiasm and good will that McCullough's books are known for, "The Pioneers" just isn't very interesting. When The Northwest Ordinance Act of 1787 was enacted it unleashed a land rush mostly by a number of intrepid New Englanders. Settling mainly in an area on the north side of the Ohio River the growing community named itself Marietta and proceeded to build. Since most of the settlers were God-fearing, fairly well-educated, hard-working pioneers it ensured that any settlement would result in a well planned, law abiding community. And indeed it was. It's overall successes were due to the hard work that was put in and it's setbacks resulted primarily from external disasters like disease, acts of nature and Indian raids. Settled in 1787 the territory was dedicated to religious freedom, education for all and, most importantly, no slavery. This was in stark contrast to the U.S. Constitution that punted on the issue of slavery. The territory yielded its first state, Ohio, in 1803. "The Pioneers" tells a Sim City type of story, building the houses, administration buidings, schools, roads, establishing a legislature. With the exception of occasional appearances by noteworthies such as Aaron Burr and John Quincy Adams what the book lacks is recognizable historical figures. The Aaron Burr episode provided the only excitement in the book. Fresh off the duel that killed Alexander Hamilton, Burr arrives in the Ohio Territory and either conspired with the fabulously wealthy and flamboyant Harman Blennerhasset or not, to break the Ohio territory away from the United States. Burr was eventually tried for treason and acquitted. I had once heard that the resulting territory was to be named Burrsylvania but since there was no mention by Mr. McCullough it was probably as valid as Tolstoy originally calling "War and Peace", "War: What Is It Good For?" Sing if you know the words. But what "The Pioneers" lacks in name recognition it more than makes up for with characters who exemplify courage, generosity and sacrifice. I can't say this is one of David McCullough's best works but it captures the American spirit our country once had and, sadly, now lacks.

Just to follow up. How about an upcoming book: "The Splendid and the Vile" by Erik Larson? Billed as "a saga of Churchill, Family, and Defiance During the Blitz" it will be released on February 25. As a historian I don't know how Larson's book stack up but his books are always informative and entertaining. Plus it's a book that, I wouldn't think, any of us would have read so we'd all be in the same boat. Just a thought. Happy to go along with anyone's recommendation, however.

I read it and would be happy to join a discussion. Also open to other suggestions.

As I mentioned I am reading Volume III of 'The Last Lion' and it's funny how so many interesting individuals stepped onto the stage for minor roles in Churchill's life. One whom I'm interested in is Averill Harriman who was sent as an emissary by FDR to Churchill in the early part of the war. Being a New Yorker I'm vaguely aware of Harriman: one time Governor of New York, but slightly before my time of awareness. But Manchester/Reid added so much more detail to his bio, son of railroad magnate E. H. Harriman, the guy that Butch and Sundance kept robbing. Harriman was later married to Pamela Churchill, Winston's daughter-in-law. Whaaat? Anyway, my question is are there any good books on Harriman.
Another character is Max Beaverbrook whom I first encountered in a Kinks song from the rock album (opera?), "Arthur". Great name. Beaverbrook is described in the book as the almost universally loathed but hard-driving force behind aircraft production during the war. Despite Beaverbrook's odious manner, Churchill loved him. I'd like to learn more about him but the literature seems pretty skimpy and not very good.
Finally, I just want to acknowledge and support Glittering Steel's efforts in this group. Organizing a group and generating enthusiasm takes more than one person and I'm a firm believer that all the good ideas don't have to come from one person. Personally, if you look at the books I read, I'm all over the lot with fiction, mysteries, plays, poetry, history, and bios. But history is a passion of mine and I fear that it is becoming a lost subject in elementary and high school. So, GS , I appreciate everything you do for the group and pledge to become more active. I hope others will too. Thanks.

My apologies, GS. I actually just began reading Volume 3 of "The Last Lion" which William Manchester began writing but Paul Reid finished upon Manchester's death. It's impossible to overstate what an enormous figure Winston Churchill was. He took part in virtually every event of the 20th Century up to his death in 1965 and remained an influence on events even today. He helped win two world wars, the second one after single handedly rallying the rest of the world. His orations during WWII will be quoted as long as there is an English language. For his histories of the Great War, World War II, his ancestor, the Duke of Marlborough, his History of the English Speaking World, and other writings he was awarded the Nobel Prize for literature. Even his failures, like Gallipoli, were spectacular. His paintings sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. He rubbed elbows with Kings and Queen but empathized with and appealed to the common man (although it's doubtful he ever socialized with them). For better or for worse, he helped set up the world order that has existed since 1945. If you are unimpressed with this distinction bear in mind that in rallying England to defeat Nazism, England was materially weakened and its influence diminished compared to the U.S. and the USSR. Regardless, I think Churchill would have to be included among the 10 most influential people who ever lived and it's an honor to have lived during his lifetime

To Elliot and Jeffrey,
Thanks guys! Very enlightening. Perhaps like Eliott Roosevelt's assessment of deGaulle, it's as simple as FDR just didn't like him. Best not to overthink the topic. Think long, think wrong as the saying goes. Still, deGaulle was a unique character and I will look up the books you suggested. Also, I liked the quick response my question generated and I hope we can generate more such activity within our group.
Chris

I've been reading a fair number of WWII books lately, notably featuring the French Resistance during the war. Can anyone explain to me why deGaulle was so disliked by the Allies, specifically FDR? It looks to me that he spent almost no part of the war in France but was able to mobilize his supporters from abroad. Which begs the question, who were his supporters? I understand that when he finally took the reins of France he was completely ungrateful to France's saviors, nationalistic, and acted as though the French did all the heavy lifting during the war. But on the plus side, it seems to me he was rabidly anti-Communist which I would have thought was a big plus. Anyone? Also, does anyone have a good book about deGaulle?

Elliot, gonna have to get this from the library. Just checked it out on Amazon. Listed for over $50! It might take me a little longer to read this than I thought - I might have to become a driver for Lyft to pay for this book.

Elliot, I haven't read any of the series yet but they are all on my list of books to read. If you hold that thought I will read as soon as possible. Just to stall a bit I remember in David Halberstam's 'The Best and the Brightest' a small passage about McGeorge Bundy, an advisor to President Kennedy (although it might have been his brother William), when he was in prep school at lunch in the school cafeteria. One of the students asked him if he was ready to give his presentation on the Duke of Marlborough that afternoon. Bundy had completely forgotten to do it and ran like a crazy man from the cafeteria. Later on he showed up in class and, when called on, read a flawless report about the subject. His classmates however were all giggling and snickering during the presentation. After class the teacher asked one of the pupils what they were laughing at - the paper was brilliant. The student explained that Bundy was reading from blank pages.

Elliot wrote: "Chris wrote: "Currently obsessed with D-Day and my fear is that as these brave soldiers pass away the nation's interest will fade too. Just watched for the umpteenth time "Saving Private Ryan" and ..."

Hi Elliot, I re-read "The Longest Day" about a year ago and it is still the definitive recounting of the events of D-Day. I also wrote a review for Goodreads which you can read when you get a chance. Five stars, natch.

Currently obsessed with D-Day and my fear is that as these brave soldiers pass away the nation's interest will fade too. Just watched for the umpteenth time "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Longest Day". Also re-read "The Longest Day" and just checked "The First Wave" out of the library which is one of about a half dozen D-Day books I'm excited about. When I was a kid I couldn't get enough movies and books about WWII. Now the kids are all watching movies about Super Heroes and Transformers. I have 11 grandchildren and I'm dying to introduce them to real life heroes, the heroes I grew up with. But I feel like this is being discouraged in our society which is a shame. What's wrong with teaching children about sacrifice and bravery and patriotism? I'd like to say that I'll snap out of this and I probably will - around the 4th of July! Then I'll go on my Revolutionary War kick and by the end of the month I'll be wondering why we can't teach our children about sacrifice and bravery and patriotism. Anyway, I hope this will be a fun and informative group. And by the way, I love all aspects of history. One of the members mentioned she (or he?) was a fan of the Victorian era. Me too. And Russian History, and Irish history, and English history, and...

Robin wrote: "Natalie....No I haven't been to Gettysburg, but it's on my bucket list."

I recently read that attendance at U.S. battlefields is down from 10 million people in 1970 to a little over 3 million in 2018. So sad. I'm hoping that interest in these and other historic sites will increase. Maybe it can start with us.