“Bret: [There is a] distinction between the satisfaction of life coming from consuming, which is inherently empty, versus producing. Producing doesn't necessarily have to mean [producing] stuff. It can be [producing] meaning or insight or any one of a number of other things. [...]

Heather: Recognising the long-term glow that you get from producing something of lasting value and beauty and meaning in the world, as opposed to only being exposed to [producing] short-term stuff. [...]

Coming to know a craftsman who really builds things with care and knowledge with the intention that you will be able to pass this on to your children or your friends or whomever later on. This is a piece with lasting beauty; with lasting function, that was built with someone who knew something about the wood or the metals or whatever the materials are. This is a way into finding the kinds of meaning that a fourth frontier mentality can provide.”