fiction files redux discussion

Here is a link to a wiki that lists just about every trope imaginable. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php... Although it is called TV Tropes, most tropes are identified in movies and novels as well as anime.

Here's my question: When is a story a hoary trope and when is it, instead, an archetypal retelling?

Jackson Burnett

If I understand the terms correctly, I think this is a case of apples and apple trees. An archetype is a character or thing that really needs no (or very little) explanation or description because it is so instantly recognizable as the character type or thing that it is. A trope is the type of scenario or situation in which the archetype is set down in order to act out it's given purpose in the story.

Patty, are you saying that an archetypal retelling is distinguished by how the characters are presented in the narrative?

no, i'm not really saying anything. i guess i'm saying that to me the term archetype means a ubiquitous character or thing, and it's something that doesn't really need or warrent a retelling, it's something that just needs a recognizable description.

maybe you could explain what the two terms mean to you?

Patty, thanks for engaging in this conversation. Your comments prompted me to go back and look at a few things. Clarissa Pinkola Estes talks about archetypal patterns and I think that's what I was struggling with. An archetypal pattern is always a trope but a trope isn't necessarily always an archetypal pattern. Probably to understand what an archetype or archetypal pattern we'd need to look at what Jung says. If I remember correctly, an archetype is like you say a recurring recognizable character that has historical antecedents and exists cross-culturally. Whew! Anyway, the Trope link I posted is kind of fun to mess with.

Jackson