Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion

Posting early so everyone can contribute questions to the discussion Tuesday! What do you want to see us talk about? What did you think of Ill Wind?

We'll be taking discussion suggestions here, from geekandsundry.com/community chat room during the broadcast, Twitter #vaginalfantasy hashtags, and on the YouTube live stream page too! 8pm PST Tuesday on youtube.com/geekandsundy!

And if you have a local group active, let me know so I can give a shoutout.

Let's talk about how one minute she is picking up a hitchhiker and the next she is sleeping with him. I guess I needed more foreplay or relationship building. I call this the "Brokeback Mountain" syndrome. One minute it seems like they are going to get along and the next minute it is love and passion. Huh? Did I miss something?

which warden would you four ladies be and why?
sexy time hot tub scene - what did we think? hot or not?
I kinda liked it! Loved David I thought he was uber hot and incredibly sweet :)
I enjoyed the book I really liked the warden system and the interesting things that I learnt about the weather, I liked the djiins and how they all seemed to have their own personality/appearance whether by their own choice or their masters, I did find it annoying how all the wardens were dead set against Jo all the time but otherwise I enjoyed it, it was a nice easy read and im going to read the next in the series :)

I would love to hear about what you all thought about David being not as agressively Alpha-rapey type as so many other vag fantasy heroes.

Oh and I wonder if any of you wondered as much as i did the first time you read it about just WHO was going to be Jo's leading man- David, Paul or Lewis? Was it annoying that pretty much every male in the book seemed to pretty much be in love or lust with her?

I did really like the book though, i felt Jo, compared to so many other female heroines really owned her sexuality but without being too trampy about it.

I'd like someone to be rocking some purple velvet for the occasion! PLEASE the hangout is on my 30th birthday I'm going to need a good laugh!
Also if the subject of whether using the term womb is in any way shape or form sexy to anyone comes up I wouldn't be sad!

How much of the romance do we think was actually David's guilt?
I didn't feel that much love coming from him, but he sure did feel bad about what he did to her while he was Bad Bobs Djinn.
I felt that is why he was pushing so hard for her to claim him too, to atone in a way for what he had done.

I have to say, this book was super easy to read, in a good way! At times though, the 'weather lingo' dragged on a little too long when there could have been more sexy times in my opinion. However, when that sexy time 'arose'(hehe)it was well worth the wait.

It did seem like Jo fell for David really quickly but I think her character is just very impulsive so she saw a fine looking fellow and was like 'hey, why not?'.

I would also like to know whether the rest of the world is aware of the Wardens, is it a secret or something? I can't quite remember if they explained that in the book.

All in all, my first vaginal fantasy book was a winner! I have subsequently bought the 8 other warden series too, woo!

Can we talk about Joanne? She was REALLY annoying. Was that just how she was or was that supposed to be due to the demon mark's effect?

I've been thoroughly enjoying all the books we've read, but the sassy girl who all the boys are in love with is getting rather repetitive.

One thing I did like about her was how open she was about her sexuality. There was no victim here. SHE was the one initiating sex with the random hitchhiker AND she totally knew what she was doing when she and Lewis hooked up in the lab.

How do people feel about Djinn (an ancient being, need to be bound, constantly changing looks) as the primary love interest? For a while, I was completely convinced that Lewis had somehow found a way to use his magic to manipulate his appearance and was David in disguise, hoping to protect her but still remain hidden from the Wardens.

In the end, upon finding out David was Bad Bob's Djinn, I felt like Jo was a little... taken advantage of (for lack of a better phrase). Not because the 'sexy times' weren't completely consensual or anything. More like a paranormal version of waking up next to this guy and then he admits he surgically altered 180 year old woman (who knows with Djinn!) who slept with you as a favor <-- definitely a good excuse to freak out.

I couldn't help but get the feeling that David was just 'going along for the ride' because he felt guilty . And that ruined any of the passion originally felt when I re-read the scene. His looks especially, which we all know are kind of necessary for romantic relationships, were merely morphed to suit her ideals of someone cute and casual.

Bamboozled. Yes, it's a good word for this I think. Joanne was bamboozled by the Djinn. Not shmexy.

Yeah, I'm wondering how much of David's romancing was just a way for him to get Jo to trust him, so that he could take the mark and assuage his own guilt. It happened really fast, and although he held off that first night in the hotel room, they get intimate pretty quickly without knowing ANYTHING about each other. Was it real on his part, or not?

My 2 cents: I think that a lot of people believe in "love at first sight" and the idea of a "soul mate." That is, two people that are destined to be with each other and know it the moment they meet. I just assumed that Joanne's instant relationship with David was a reflection of this romantic fantasy.

Paul wrote: "My 2 cents: I think that a lot of people believe in "love at first sight" and the idea of a "soul mate." That is, two people that are destined to be with each other and know it the moment they me..."
Im not sure that I accept the love in first sight and soul mate stuff in real life, just cause im cynical lol, but I certainly accpet it in fiction and just accepted that this was one of those times, I felt like Joanne and David clicked right away and didnt really think about it any deeper (scuse the pun :P) than that, is saying david romancing her to assuage his own guilt overly thinking things here ? what do we think ?

I believe an item of purple velvet clothing should be mandatory.

Coral wrote: "I believe an item of purple velvet clothing should be mandatory."

Yes! I was thinking the same.

Doug wrote: "Can't wait for the show! so ..

I think it is odd that everyone in the series up to book 4 is basically a jerk and Jo has no real friends or other characters that really support her. (Lewis and Dav..."

ok dude you really needed to use the spoiler tag cos so far ive only read book one, I have book two on my kindle but havnt read it as yet and youve just given loads away about the next three books thanks for that
where you said did it seem real to you guys, no it didnt it was a fantasy book with fantasy characters so it didnt bother me too much that "real" questions werent asked

Am I the only one who found the plot of this book to have alot of parallels to the Dresden Files?

The next books in this series didn't, but in this book the plot felt like it owed quite a bit to Jim Butcher.

I really liked this book. It fits in well with the other urban fantasies I'm reading, Chicagoland Vampires and Dark Swan series (which is also written by an author who also writes teen books as well). I liked the fact that Jo didn't suffer agonizing over sleeping with David (like Anita Blake does) and totally owned who she was. I too found it kind of lame that the other wardens were such a wishy washy bunch. I look forward to getting to read the rest of them.

Jane wrote: "Doug wrote: "Can't wait for the show! so ..

I think it is odd that everyone in the series up to book 4 is basically a jerk and Jo has no real friends or other characters that really support her. (..."

sorry woman, Jane :) I deleted it I don't want to have spoilers for folks who haven't gotten super far into series.

I did kind of want to talk about the series farther in but maybe bad judgement asking those questions.

Doug wrote: "Jane wrote: "Doug wrote: "Can't wait for the show! so ..

I think it is odd that everyone in the series up to book 4 is basically a jerk and Jo has no real friends or other characters that really s..."

Please ask some questions otherwise i will feel bad! I think people have talked about further on in the series in the ill wind discussion page itself which I havnt read too much of cos of spoilers lol

Can we talk about Djinn procreation for a sec? I imagined there would be something a little more romantic...maybe two free Djinn, a bottle of wine, and some Marvin Gay. No? Then how the hell does a Djinn simply turn a human (who's about to die because she has two demons fighting to the death inside of her) into another Djinn? I liked the book, and I like the fact that I wasn't expecting the ending, but it seems rather counter-intuitive and WRONG. I understand that the author has plenty of room for creative license, but I find it very difficult to believe. It's like when you're a little kid and your parents have already explained the birds and the bees to you, and a friend comes up and is all "The stork brought me a baby brother!" and you respond with "Wrong. Your parents had sex." Just me?
When I finished this book, I just found myself going "No way did THAT actually happen" and as an avid fantasy buff that leaves me a little disappointed. Still a good read though.

Doug wrote: "Jane wrote: "Doug wrote: "Can't wait for the show! so ..

I think it is odd that everyone in the series up to book 4 is basically a jerk and Jo has no real friends or other characters that really s..."

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... There is a thread for the rest of the series.

Ooh, this one isn't as good as Kushiel's Dart (my fave) or Desperate Duchesses, a fun read. I hate to be a snob but the writing is not up to snuff in my opinion.

I'm on the 6th book (Thin Air) in the series now, and I think this would make a great TV show. The setting, the main character, and the plot pace all seem like they would be a good TV series. Has anyone tried to get this together, or is there something in the works already? I would totally watch it.

Katherine wrote: "Can we talk about Djinn procreation for a sec? I imagined there would be something a little more romantic...maybe two free Djinn, a bottle of wine, and some Marvin Gay. No? Then how the hell does a..."

They address it in the next book, and they kind of justify the "WTF?" moment by showing it has some big consequences. (That's all I'll say without letting loose some spoilers)

2 Questions:

1) How did everyone feel after David's reveal at the end to being the Djinn that Bad Bob had used to force the Demon Mark on Joanne? Did that change your perception of him? Make the whole book more creepy in retrospect? Do you identify with and/or forgive his guilt?

2) A lot of people seemed to me to HATE the way Joanne/Rachel Caine describes her magic/weather powers in this novel - all scientific and incredibly detailed. I for one really enjoy it! However, I can see how it could be annoying during tense moments or sudden battle scenes - especially during a climax. How did you ladies feel about it, and if you would change it to improve upon it, how would you?

(For me, I think I would have described it just as detailed the first few times, and then perhaps be more quick and/or instinctual in the later descriptions. IE: "I felt the electricity sparking in the air, so I quelled it with a glare" or something like that, only less lame-sounding. However, now having read Heat Stroke as well, it seems to me to be necessary, because even if it is long-winded, it is how Joanne understands magic to be around her. For her it is a Scientific process involving atoms and physics, so if that's how she thinks it is, she can't just "will" something to be like something else. Or perhaps, in Rachel Caine's world, that's just how it works.)

Katherine wrote: "Can we talk about Djinn procreation for a sec?" Misstessamelissa wrote: "They address it in the next book, and they kind of justify the "WTF?" moment by showing it has some big consequences. (That's all I'll say without letting loose some spoilers)"

I'm glad you addressed that! I was about to say the same thing. Yeaaaaaahh... I still don't totally understand it, 100%. (Especially with what happened at the end of Heat Stroke. See my comments on my review page itself. XD) All I can say without spoilers.

As usual, didn't read all the other questions so sorry for repeats..

1. Did any of you kind of roll your eyes at her becoming a Djinn at the end? It felt too much like how in a lot of vampire romance novels the girl gets turned at the end...just with more festive clothing....

2. This was probably intentional as the first VF on G&S but, did you guys find this one incredibly tame? Compared to ones like the iron duke , this one was rather PG...

3. did you think the djinn were kind of lame as i did? Like the weather warden's themselves are sooooo cool and so powerful and the djinn just seemed only a little more powerful in comparison other than the ability to change your clothes to whatever you want whenever you want (which might come in handy but still...)

4. since i missed last months, my last one was kushiel's dart...and coming off of that and the awesomeness of melisande shahrizai , star came off as a really really weak villain ..like just petty jealousy of Jo and having a messed up face was all her motivation needed to be to cause crazy stuff...it just came off as such an unnecessary twist and villain.

and finally!!

5. Does anyone else want an audiobook of this where every djinn is voiced by Robin Williams?

5. Does anyone else want an audiobook of this where every djinn is voiced by Robin Williams?

Yes, yes So many times yes!

Christine wrote: "5. Does anyone else want an audiobook of this where every djinn is voiced by Robin Williams?

Yes, yes So many times yes!"

And now I'm singing A Whole new World and can't stop. Awesome

1. I felt the ending made it so Bad Bob kind of won in a way, because he did manage to "destroy" the human Joanne, did anyone else feel this way?

2. I also felt that the romance story felt a little Lifetimey/movie of the weeky/Mother May I Sleep With Dangery because she basically falls for the Djinn that Demon Mark-raped her even if it was at Bad Bob's suggestion and he is a different Djinn for every master, a la Bob the skull from The Dresden Files, and he feels super bad about it, so I was kind of skeeved out by it once I figured out what was going on, anyone else?

3. Also, now that she is a Djinn, doesn't that mean she must live in fear for the rest of eternity of being enslaved by some Weather Warden? Which brings me back to my question 1 of Bad Bob winning.

I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. But all in all a good quick read Caine keeps it moving without wasting time explaining things we can figure out on our own.

My question for the hangout ladies: Have any of you ever named a car? who really does this?

Felicia wrote: "Posting early so everyone can contribute questions to the discussion Tuesday! What do you want to see us talk about? What did you think of Ill Wind?

We'll be taking discussion suggestions here, ..."

Hey Felicia! Would you mind giving a shout-out to those members who live in the Gulf Coast area? Eerie coincidence for the book we're reading, but also it would be nice since they may or may not be able to join the live hangout because of lack of electricity/internet tomorrow night.

Book wrote: "I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. But all in all a good quick read Caine keeps it moving without wasting time explaining ..."

I named my laptop Marvyn (it's a girl) so naming a car seems pretty normal to me.

Book wrote: "I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. But all in all a good quick read Caine keeps it moving without wasting time explaining ..."

I name my laptops and pcs ;)

Justine wrote: "Book wrote: "I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. But all in all a good quick read Caine keeps it moving without wasting tim..."

Ive named my car mara, I have never thought to name my pc but that appeals to me it will add weight when I shout at it for not working properly lol

Book wrote: "I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. But all in all a good quick read Caine keeps it moving without wasting time explaining ..."

When I was a kid we had a car we named Valerie (it was a 197? Volare station wagon). That's the only one that a name has ever stuck, though I have heard of others that have named their cars.

Edie wrote: "Am I the only one who found the plot of this book to have alot of parallels to the Dresden Files?

The next books in this series didn't, but in this book the plot felt like it owed quite a bit t..."

Totally! With a couple of tweaks like Jo loving her fancy cars and Dresden driving around in a wreck.

Question: Why didn't Jo know how strong she was (magically)?

Lewis and Bob said more than once that she was an abnormally strong warden yet she kept saying/thinking she was mostly average but really good at subtle manipulations. This really bothered me. It seems like it should have been obvious to her. For example, if wardens lifted weights instead of manipulating weather, they would hang around in a gym lifting weights in front of each other, it would be apparent who were the strongest.

jess wrote: "Edie wrote: "Am I the only one who found the plot of this book to have alot of parallels to the Dresden Files?

The next books in this series didn't, but in this book the plot felt like it owed ..."

It proably comes down to lack of confidence,belief in your self and your abilities like it does with most of us in real life? Just because she was someone with magical abilities and somewhat cocky on the outside doesnt mean on the inside she's all like hey im so much more powerful than you
thats my take on it anyway, interesting point :)

Christine wrote: "Courtland wrote: "5. Does anyone else want an audiobook of this where every djinn is voiced by Robin Williams?"

Yes, yes So many times yes!

And now I'm singing A Whole new World and can't stop...."


I totally agree Christine! Now I have "Never Had a Friend Like Me" stuck in my head. It doesn't help that a few nights ago I watched the movie, because I had the random urge for it.

OH MAN, that would be hilarious and awesome. Especially in the case of Rahel, I think. XD *snorts*

Book wrote: "I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. ...My question for the hangout ladies: Have any of you ever named a car? who really does this? "

I don't have a car, but if I did, I would. I'm actually expecting my first car to be a junker, and so I'd likely name it something appropriate, like Rustbucket or Danger. My best friend has named her car, a VW Cabriolet... I don't remember what though. And I name my technology - my computer, my video game systems, even my Wacom Tablet, and my electric guitar.

One of my close guy friends names his cars - his last car was an old Toyota Corolla hatchback from the late 80's, it was "The Deathmobile". Before that he had some kind of Toyota minivan which he dubbed "Eggy".

Personally, I really dug that Jo was a car girl. That made the book more relatable for me. If she had been all about fashion only, I would've probably rolled my eyes at her (a lot more, or only)... and potentially I may have disliked her character. That little element (well, okay, I guess it comes off as a big element) really helped me identify with Jo. I like fast sports cars too!

Also: Hell yes on the coffee comment! (Definitely at first.) Mmm... Coffee.

So, I really thought that Joanne was kind of a Mary Sue

(From Wikipedia: A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader.)

I find it hard to enjoy those kind of characters, but I don't get that same vibe from other readers. Do you guys think Joanne is a Mary Sue, and does that affect how you enjoy the book?

Adelaide wrote: "So, I really thought that Joanne was kind of a Mary Sue

(From Wikipedia: A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overl..."

I don't know that I'd agree. For one thing, I believe Joanne did have flaws. She was vain - note she went to a designer store and got the fancy purple velvet pants and frilly white top and all when she needed clothes when basic jeans and a tshirt from Walmart or the equivalent would have sufficed. Also, she definitely was fairly arrogant and more than a little spoiled in some ways. Moreso than she realized I think. While I would stop short of calling her totally self-absorbed - for she did bend over backwards and pulled all the strings and called in all the favors she could to help Star when she was burned, and likewise helped Lewis when he escaped and kept mum about where he was - still, she was self-focused enough that she was totally blind to Star's jealousy of her and how Star's infirmity had been affecting her.

Michelle (aka Ndayeni) wrote: "I don't know that I'd agree. For one thing, I believe Joanne did have flaws. She was vain . . ."

I don't know if Joanne's vanity and self-absorbtion are enough faults to rule her out from being a Mary Sue. She is also

* Super Hot
* Super Crazy Powerful for no reason (without fully realizing it.)
* Every Man MUST Have Her

I totally see her as being a wish-fulfillment character.

Book wrote: "I felt more moved by Joanne's romantic relationship with coffee than I did with sparks between her and David. But all in all a good quick read Caine keeps it moving without wasting time explaining ..."

Mmmmmm coffee. Yeah, it wasn't the most exciting bond between Joanne and David. Maybe the romance gets better later in the series? I likely won't find out myself as I've decided to lem this one.

In response to your question, Book, I named my car Mickie, and my cello is named Edward. Both are dear to me... almost as much as my husband and my overflowing bookshelf ;)

I think Jo definitely has flaws. In addition to the ones Adelaide mentioned, she's insecure (you can totally be vain and insecure at the same time - I think most actors really feel like that deep down - at least those of us just starting out), she makes bad choices - like purposefully jumping into danger for flimsy reasons.

My understanding of Mary Sues are characters that are generally perfect. Jo most certainly is not.

OH! And she can't hold her tongue - the reflex to always sass back could be seen as a flaw.

i liked this book for a light, fast read, but i didn't feel any urge to continue the series afterwards. i just felt like everything about the story that interested me was completed by the end of this book. i was quite taken by the weather wardens' organization, especially the ruthless conform or be destroyed mantra. Perhaps i am becoming jaded, because i just didn't care who turned out to be Jo's happily ever after. i was mildly annoyed that David was so very guilt ridden for raping Jo because he did understand that at the time he was in the complete thrall of Bad Bob. Is the problem that this book was too reminiscent of Richelle Mead's most excellent succubus series? All in all the book was a fun, easy one and done read.

Craig wrote: "i liked this book for a light, fast read, but i didn't feel any urge to continue the series afterwards. i just felt like everything about the story that interested me was completed by the end of th..."

I didn't get the feel for Richelle Mead's succubus series and I LOVE that series. Mostly because I disliked Joanne and loved the main character and all the supporting characters of the succubus books. The first of those books made me want to read the whole series in one sitting.

i am glad Joanna enjoyed Richelle Mead's succubus books as much as i did, Yay, us!

Why do the forces of nature hate us again? Never explained. Nature wanted to kill off dinos? Did Nature call the asteroid? This mystified me.

Suzi wrote: "Why do the forces of nature hate us again? Never explained. Nature wanted to kill off dinos? Did Nature call the asteroid? This mystified me."

This is actually semi explained in later books.